PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

No infection? Really? Is there a reason for that? I have to admit, it was annoying, but it definitely gave you a thrill of having to find those antibiotics.
Personally, I think if whether to have it or not, I'd say yes, have it, but perhaps no sooner than day 5. Especially with traders, and if you find the wrong one, he can sell you a pill for your first born child.

Bargaining or intimidation perks, anyone?

I don't even know what I said nope to. Regarding infection we need time to rewrite it. I don't know how soon we can do that without delaying 18.

 

[madmole]

What about the Duke dressing his ZombieHorde (see what I did there with my name?) army? Or you've killed a bunch of bandits with armor and now there are a few zombies with armor because of that?

We could possibly head/hand swap these guys.

 

[Trankitas]

I don't even know what I said nope to. Regarding infection we need time to rewrite it. I don't know how soon we can do that without delaying 18.

Maybe A18+ (I ignore how much time it takes to rewrite the code)

 

[madmole]

A couple of questions:
Would it be possible to reconfigure how recipes work so that one recipe could have several options? For instance, right now bottled water can be made in a couple of way (murky water or glass jar + snowball) and these have to be separate recipes in the list. It's a small thing, but having only one recipe entry in the list regardless of how many ways there are to create it would be cleaner and less confusing from a UI perspective, and would benefit modding as well.

Second, I asked this a little ways back in this thread but the conversation moves so fast it might have gotten lost in the shuffle:

To keep food relevant without spoilage, I'd propose that plants only be allowed to grow within a reasonable band of temperature and that a "seasonal" temperature cycle be added to the biomes in addition to the daily cycles. The reason being that you could then create a situation where the player can grow and harvest food for 14 days but then can't grow anything for the next 35, for example, even in the temperate biomes. Then food sourcing becomes a signficant gameplay aspect but without all of the challenges spoilage introduces.

What if you were saving your snowball for something and it got accidentally cooked? I'm not really a fan of multiple ways to craft stuff it clutters up the recipe list. One way to do it puts force on the player to find what he needs, not just any old substitute. Realism isn't so great for most game designs.

So new players planting on the wrong season or time frame can't grow?

Honestly we just need to focus on balance. Why reinvent farming version 121? Its too easy to get seeds. I can change a few lines of xml and get the result we need. Its the same with vehicles. Too much gasoline.

 

[daterxies]

Does anyone know if optimizations will come to a18?

Game runs very poor going from 16 to 17. Main reason I stopped playing.

 

[madmole]

I just started playing Conan again the other day. The sandstorms add atmosphere, and if they were removed the game would feel lesser for that reason alone. I certainly couldn't argue that they add much else to the game, though. Aside from atmosphere, I suppose they seem to serve mainly as an early game impediment and a reason to get you into the base building mechanics early. It also adds a sense of danger to early game adventures away from your base. I like that you can build a sandstorm mask around level 30 that negates the damage and makes the sandstorms merely cosmetic.
I do agree with you that I'm feeling a lack of purpose in the game (playing single player this time). I actually really like building neat things in the game, but the Purge seems to be verrrry stingy. I feel no sense of impending danger, and that meter is ticking up so slowly I'm not sure I'll ever see a purge before I get bored of the game. For that reason, everything about my base is aesthetic, rather than geared toward defense. If they would just build up that PvE threat and make it as robust as the one in 7D it would be a much better game.

For what it's worth, the game loop and sense of consistent overall purpose in your game is the best I've ever experienced in my 30+ years of gaming. Well done, sir.

Thanks yes, I love designs that give players a feeling of purpose. Preparing for impending doom and taking risks, surviving, scavenging, time management all tie nicely together into a 7 Days stew.

Conan's purge meter is crazy slow. I have 8 hours in already and its less than 10%. They probably didn't want to be too harsh on noobs. I don't know the metrics that increase the meter though, maybe advancing tech or something does it. Just a straight up every so many days would work IMO, as long as they are game staged it would be great.

 

[madmole]

I think the "game loop" is why I have stuck with 7 days 2100 hours later. "Here is a sandbox, but something is going to come F it up in 7 days, so get ready!". I don't think there is another game that gave me more of a reason to stick around for day 7, 14, 959, etc. Trying new things, trying those things again when a new update comes out. I wonder when the game is "gold", will I eventually become bored with it to the point I put it aside for a considerable amount of time?
That being said, other sand box games don't grab me much in the same way without that "pressure" the recurring 7 days is to me. I've played hundreds of hours of Ark, perhaps more of Minecraft, but I never felt the same urgency and implied will to keep going, try new things. It's a fantastic game mechanic, and I haven't been able to tear myself away very long for over a year now.

Here is hoping the final vision of the game stands as a fitting monument to the game play at it's core.

Tower defense is awesome. Every blood moon I sit on my fort walls and listen to the thunder cracking, I wonder what the might do, what direction they are coming, and if I did enough to stop them. Its great every time.

 

[Aerial]

So new players planting on the wrong season or time frame can't grow?

Yup. They'd have to scavenge canned goods to survive. Or buy food from traders/vending machines. Or raid other players' bases for food.

 

[ExeBT]

@Madmole In my opinion veichles shpuld get a part degradation, For example, Each Wheel can travel 60.000KM when its crafted Tier 6, and a engine can work for 100.000km when it gets the max km it break, if u have 1 wheel tier 2 and one tier 6 the tier 2 will stop in 20.000km and u will need to repair it, and the veichle will lose stability and start to push to the wheel broken, like in the real life, and the engine could start to turn off. Thats a good thing to make veichles harder and a better challenge.

Sorry if i could not explain well.

 

[madmole]

Does anyone know if optimizations will come to a18?
Game runs very poor going from 16 to 17. Main reason I stopped playing.

Lots of optimizations have been done. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of easy low hanging fruit. Its a bunch of work to save .01% cpu or something. But its adding up the game seems to be running pretty good in the editor lately which is a good sign. I can't promise any specific increases but hopefully it will become playable again for most people who quit for this reason.

 

[madmole]

Yup. They'd have to scavenge canned goods to survive. Or buy food from traders/vending machines. Or raid other players' bases for food.

Feel like we can accomplish the same thing by making crops randomly die for no reason, like IRL, or make seeds harder to get (balance).

 

[Odetta]

Feel like we can accomplish the same thing by making crops randomly die for no reason, like IRL, or make seeds harder to get (balance).

Have player grown and world crops unable to craft seeds from. Instead have an un-mutated seed item (a different one for each crop) in the loot table. It could be a "Seed Vault" anti corruption parcel or something. They would be very rare. This way you could make having a farm an actual accomplishment. Keep the re growing plant mechanic.

Backstory should be easy to come up with why you can't plant seeds from crops grown. They are mutated or something. Would also open up some cool possibilites with perks.

Note: this might be a too drastic of a change for the player base

 

[madmole]

Have player grown and world crops unable to craft seeds from. Instead have an un-mutated seed item (a different one for each crop) in the loot table. It could be a "Seed Vault" anti corruption parcel or something. They would be very rare. This way you could make having a farm an actual accomplishment. Keep the re growing plant mechanic.
Backstory should be easy to come up with why you can't plant seeds from crops grown. They are mutated or something. Would also open up some cool possibilites with perks.

Why do we want to crap on farmers? I only farm to make meat stews. I get 500 eggs by looting nests and have hundreds of meat just killing every animal I see. There is tons of food at traders if I want it. I don't see the desire to crap on farmers, food is easy to get in every other way.

 

[BioFringe]

Ok so Joel clearly isn't interested in discussing a Trader / Bandit switch but what about that shoe? Could we at least get a Red Whittled Shoe clothing item to wear?

 

[Aerial]

Why do we want to crap on farmers? I only farm to make meat stews. I get 500 eggs by looting nests and have hundreds of meat just killing every animal I see. There is tons of food at traders if I want it. I don't see the desire to crap on farmers, food is easy to get in every other way.

That's just the thing. To be a survival game, food shouldn't be easy to get. It also shouldn't be so difficult that the player does nothing but try to get enough food to survive but making food trivial takes away from the gameplay.

 

[ZombieHorde]

I don't even know what I said nope to. Regarding infection we need time to rewrite it. I don't know how soon we can do that without delaying 18.

Yeah, don't delay it. It's only a relatively minor system. A bit of extra immersion and challenge, but that's it.

 

[Odetta]

Why do we want to crap on farmers? I only farm to make meat stews. I get 500 eggs by looting nests and have hundreds of meat just killing every animal I see. There is tons of food at traders if I want it. I don't see the desire to crap on farmers, food is easy to get in every other way.

It wasn't to crap on them. It was just a part of a bigger balance pass that would need to be done. Food spoilage is off the table and we need a food sink/way to make it mean something. If you went with the crops randomly dying like you suggested then we'd have the same exact problems you just outlined. Too easy to get meat/food in every other way.

My suggestion was just a cog in the bigger machine.

Also, one of my favorite things to do in game and irl is to make a farm. I didn't feel I was taking away from the experience but enhancing it. Finding seeds would be exciting then i could build my garden so zombies couldn't destroy them. I'd work a little harder protecting my few plants like they were a pet or something.

 

[Damocles]

Tower defense is awesome. Every blood moon I sit on my fort walls and listen to the thunder cracking, I wonder what the might do, what direction they are coming, and if I did enough to stop them. Its great every time.

The potentially depressing thing is: the player may have gone through all those struggles for seven days to die.

 

[Fightin Welsh]

Feel like we can accomplish the same thing by making crops randomly die for no reason, like IRL, or make seeds harder to get (balance).

or just make it so crop don't regrow. force a choice between growing Seed stock or food stock.

 

[RipClaw]

It wasn't to crap on them. It was just a part of a bigger balance pass that would need to be done. Food spoilage is off the table and we need a food sink/way to make it mean something. If you went with the crops randomly dying like you suggested then we'd have the same exact problems you just outlined. Too easy to get meat/food in every other way.
My suggestion was just a cog in the bigger machine.

Also, one of my favorite things to do in game and irl is to make a farm. I didn't feel I was taking away from the experience but enhancing it. Finding seeds would be exciting then i could build my garden so zombies couldn't destroy them. I'd work a little harder protecting my few plants like they were a pet or something.

If you want to give more importance to food, you should start with food and not by punishing farmers. It would be easy to change the recipes so that you need more ingredients to get enough food.

Many players don't even bother to create a garden because they can find food everywhere. That's where you should start. You should also give the type of food more importance. At the moment it doesn't matter if I eat bacon and eggs or a vegetable stew.

And what should not be forgotten is that gardens are also wonderful as decorative elements their own. Check out the latest videos from ZNation on Youtube. He built a gigantic multi-storey garden with a tree farm.