PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

  • A18 Stable is Out!

    Votes: 2 66.7%

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    Votes: 1 33.3%
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Since proper translation is quite an effort (especially re-translating new words all the time when new features come in and others change) you should only expect to have the proper full translation at launch...
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No promises, but after 18 is stable we're going to try to update the 4 we already have supported, and add Russian, Chinese and Japanese.

 
You can but I don't think generation changed, only road and town code. The new generation doesn't have anything like that and is completely new code and way to create rwg.
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the main road gen works for 8k maps (highways between towns), but none at all on the 16k. (other weirdness in rwg happening too, posted in bug thread with more to come)

 
I don't think making food heal (as it is now) will affect food consumption. A person will eat only a certain amount of food each day (if available), no matter if he is injured or healthy. Let's ignore cold biome for now. I cannot eat more if I'm full. So to make use of food healing ability, I need to go scavanging on empty belly, so if injured I can eat more and heal, which is contr intuitive and bad design.
Simple solution is to allow us to eat when we are full, there is no wellness now, so no exploit by eating dozens of stews.
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Yeah blocking eating when full doesn't offer much gameplay.

 
More deseases = more tipes of antibiَtics = more reasons to search and explore.
What about zombies atacking players boxes with meat in it?if hunger is a threat and food become hard to obtain loosing your stockpile maybe can kill you in a few days.

I think it's easy to implement.
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I always thought this is realistic, zeds would go for containers with meat in them. But what would the rage meter do?

 
I like the idea of crops being in danger but you're going down the metabolism route for food? Wouldn't that be unnecessarily complex for the average gamer? Even the Skyrim realistic needs mods always offer a simplified method.
Not that the human digestion system is hard to program, I did it last year. The greatest difficulty was working out whether water was a meal or a nutrient... it's both. After that everything can pretty much be broken down into carbs, protein and fat unless you want to micromanage vitamins :-)
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TBH the trampling of crops and zeds smashing food boxes would do wonders. I like to start small and see where it goes, and yeah that other idea is kind of a bad example. Realistic needs has been in my load order for years.

 
Very good points.
To be honest I don't think food will be a complete feature unless we add more "complex" elements to it. It doesn't need to be ressource consuming at all, but several mechanics must be compounded together so that the whole food/hunger gameplay becomes engaging and thoughtful. Food spoilage, as it has been discussed previously isn't in my opinion a solution that will enhance gameplay on it's own (if at all).

What makes 7DTD unique is the fact that a lot of different, seemingly independant mechanisms and "mini-games" are actually tied up together, thus making the whole a rich experience. The aspect that is truly making food management feel lackluster is that it is focused solely around quantity management. There's no need for diversity, there's no real gain from any food; the game theory behind all of it relies on two equations, ressource cost/hunger regen ratio, and hunger regen/health regen ratio - and you choose your recipes depending on if you want to maximize either food cost or healing efficiency. Then you figure out which is the easiest food income for you and you repeat the process just like a daily chore.

Things would be much more interesting with another layer of thinking. It could be as easy as granting temporary "special bonuses" depending on your food intake (bacon & eggs make you hit harder but move slower, vegetable stew would increase your stamina, etc). Or you could think about a whole system, something like having to fill 3 bars instead of one (don't use carbs/protein/fat though :D ), and getting bonuses or debuffs based on the diversity of your diet.

It doesn't need to become YourFitnessPal simulator, but if I can fill myself with the same food over and over again, it's always gonna feel too one-dimensional to be interesting.
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I thought about attribute boosting foods, and special dishes that are good for ailments, more heat and cold insulation, etc.
 
beans make you fart (noise and smell) and zds hunt you - good for calling them out for a rumble - no good for stealth

garlic similar (smell) but a heath buff for healing perhaps

carrots to increase night vision...

personally I see no need for a food sink

irl it isn't that hard to grow a surplus of food. even I can manage to grow more than enough of certain veg. tomatoes this year went mental. got a freezer full and I will make a heap of soup in a few weeks. mmmmmm home made soup in winter

 
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I thought about attribute boosting foods, and special dishes that are good for ailments, more heat and cold insulation, etc.
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This will bring more awareness when we go far away from our security pits/bases. Will be awesome tbh.

 
I always thought this is realistic, zeds would go for containers with meat in them. But what would the rage meter do?
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If you lose your food suplies or noisy things under a horde atack.you have a strong impulse to make your base even more secure.

By the way

With this you can't break the horde anymore with the minibike.you need to protect your suplies and others blocks like generators.

 
beans make you fart (noise and smell) and zds hunt you - good for calling them out for a rumble - no good for stealthgarlic similar (smell) but a heath buff for healing perhaps

carrots to increase night vision...

personally I see no need for a food sink

irl it isn't that hard to grow a surplus of food. even I can manage to grow more than enough of certain veg. tomatoes this year went mental. got a freezer full and I will make a heap of soup in a few weeks. mmmmmm home made soup in winter
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Thanks for proving our point. It is easy to gain a surplus, no argument. Preserving that surplus to use months later for yummy home made soup during the winter is what food spoilage is all about. It is the quest for preservation and not that we want to see disappearing stacks of food.

I get it. We all get food preservation for free right now. It's tough for some to give up what they already get for free and have to earn it. It's like the difference in building a base with the creative menu enabled vs disabled. With the creative menu on you can have all the blocks you need for free. With it off you have to gather resources and craft the blocks. Right now food preservation is "creative menu enabled."

In some parallel universe the game has no other option for building except having the creative menu enabled and players just get whatever they need. Other players suggest turning that off and adding things like trees and rocks and ore that would have to be harvested to gather the mats and then players would have to craft the blocks. Those players are then told,

"Adding that stuff would add very little value to the game" or

"Who wants to micromanage the blocks we use to build with?" or

"Stop trying to add artificial difficulty. If we will get the blocks eventually through gathering and harvesting we might as well get them like we do now" and the favorite...

"If TFP adds the need to harvest and gather materials and then forces us to craft our own blocks that will be the first thing I mod out the moment that patch releases!" ;)

 
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I don't think making food heal (as it is now) will affect food consumption. A person will eat only a certain amount of food each day (if available), no matter if he is injured or healthy. Let's ignore cold biome for now. I cannot eat more if I'm full. So to make use of food healing ability, I need to go scavanging on empty belly, so if injured I can eat more and heal, which is contr intuitive and bad design.
Simple solution is to allow us to eat when we are full, there is no wellness now, so no exploit by eating dozens of stews.
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Sorry, but do you still play A16? As it is now (in A17) you can eat even when you are full. Or are you talking about reality?

 
Giving more utility to food is not going to avoid surpluses or increase their value, and on the other hand, buffs are always something optional and situational.

This is like Madmole's efforts for a18 to make the loot interesting again (The 100 collectable books are sure to be amazing) but the best reason why you take your fat ass out of your comfort zone and take risks that normally I would not assume, is the need to get something urgently if you do not want to die (diseases/medicines, food/death of hunger, schematics that I need to be able to build something I need) Everything else is secondary and enriching but it is still secondary.

 
If we could have two types of water, one for large areas of water, flat, infinite, easy and cheap. And the other for small extensions of water, such as a pool, a puddle or the water generated by a player with a bucket, which would not be infinite and with limited expansion whose cost could be assumed...

 
If it can be done in a mod, then why can't it be done for the base game? :(

--

ps the Dev Clean Diary could use some updating!
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because if there are glitches in a mod people can look past them. but a developer can't have glitches in a game they say is published GOLD

 
Players: OMG we need food spoilage nao!TFP: Sure. Your food will spoil.

Players: OMG this is horrible! All my food is just rotting away! We need working refrigerators nao!

TFP: Okay, have some refrigerators, gated by appropriate electrical engineering perks.

Players: OMG this is horrible! Intellect is now the only way to play the game!

TFP: Sigh. Fine. Everyone will be able to craft ice boxes that use up snow as fuel.

Players: OMG this is horrible! My map does not have a snow biome conveniently close! This is broken!

TFP: FINE. Everyone will be able to craft ice boxes that always work.

Players: Meh. Food is way too easy to manage. This sucks.

TFP: WTF guys?
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TBH i love the spoiling, refrigerators, and icebox ideas! it would make travelling to the snow biome way more necessary!

 
don't get me wrong - im not against spoilage. not for it either. it would be more to do in game, which some will enjoy and some will hate.

one of my top priorities in game is always get corn and potatoes growing asap. yes there are plenty to find, but having your own source close to base brings one survival aspect under my control.

I don't think spoilage would effect my game much as sorting a food source - one way or another - will always be high up the list. either way I am sure I will still enjoy the game.

 
I thought about attribute boosting foods, and special dishes that are good for ailments, more heat and cold insulation, etc.
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My personal gripe with food and drinks that have special buffs, is that the duration is quite short. Like for example Red tea (the one made with water+chrysatamum), it temporarily protects max stamina cap. However, the duration is only around 2 minutes, I think it should stack if a player decides to drink more than one tea. So, if they drank a full stack (15), the duration would last 30 minutes. Same with the grandpa's learning elixur, it only lasts for 7 minutes the buff, I get thats it meant for situational things but looting a dungeon POI, takes time.

Other than that most of the things you mention are already in-game:

-Goldenrod tea: helps with dysentery

-Coffee: keeps you warm and helps with stamina regen

-Yucca juice: used to have the help with heat (please revert it to where it helps with the heat)

-Beer: ups fist damage when drunk

-Hobo stew: adds fortitude

-All of the grandpa's food + drink: buff the player in some way

So, yes to having food+drink that gives buff. But, please consider having the duration timer of how long they last either stack or be a flat timer.

 
Call me when RWG is fixed...still roads into mountains, POIs that float and are sunken down into the ground. Do any of the great systems of A17 actually work or are they all placeholders again for the next great iteration.

Game is still a grind .. A gameday to open up a safe...BOOOOOORING!!!

Its over Johnny!!! You killed a great game that just needed some tweaking and bug fixes and more late game content. 2 years to get what??? the same problems of A16 and more.

 
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