In software development there is only one direction release dates can move, forward in time.
PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!
- Thread starter madmole
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Minandreas
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I think part of the issue could be that over the years your vision for the game may have changed a bit? It's a zombie killing game? The tag line of 7 Days to Die, even in the header of this very forum, is "Survival Horde Crafting Game". When I think survival, I definitely don't think "Run in to a house full of things that want to eat me and fire a gun to intentionally wake them all up because I want to smash them all for their sweet sweet exp juice." Which is what my gaming group does all the dang time. We don't go "Oh crap, a wandering horde." We say in discord "Wandering horde on me guys! Come get some exp." I'm not exaggerating. That's LITERALLY the jist of what we say about that. We are legitimately disappointed when a screamer doesn't scream. We want her to get on the exp hotline and call all her friends. Are we as players really in a "survival" mentality here? I can get that the survival part might refer to the 7 day horde, but it's hard for players to see the game as a segmented experience where it's a straight up action RPG 90% of the time, and every now and then it turns in to a survival game where you actually need to stay AWAY from the zombies. Not charge towards them excitedly because they are exp pinatas. They think survival game and they expect a survival experience. So I think that's what's bugging some players.
As for taking the xp bar away that won't help. It will just annoy people and they'll all mod it back in. People like numbers going up. They want to get stronger. They want the next ability. People were willing to sit around and do something as mind numbing as spam craft just to see those numbers go up. They might complain about it. But they did it. That's how much players are wired to want to progress. You just can't change that unfortunately. They WILL go where the exp is.
I think that's sort of what RestInPieces is getting at when he says "they have to be balanced depending on XP/time, mostly ignoring resource gain, as counter-intuitive as that may sound.". Ultimately, if zombie bashing is the most rewarding way to gain exp, "the guys who risk their lives doing the most dangerous thing in the game" will basically just describe the vast majority of players because that's what everyone will wind up focusing on. Which as I highlighted above, is actually pretty darn counter to a "Survival" game mentality. Part of that could be because things aren't actually that dangerous most of the time. If they were, that might nudge a few people away from it to try other things to gain exp. But unless something is just really prohibitively challenging, as long as it's the fastest way of seeing the numbers go up, most people will gravitate towards it whether its the most fun way to play or not.
Sorry for the wall of text... just trying to help in some way. Thanks for being so open and communicating with the fans MM. Super looking forward to what you guys have done with A18. :smile-new:
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But still too late for the financial department and upper management who call the shots and wanted the game out by last year.
Look at games released before they are ready and each and every one of them already broke multiple internal deadlines
KingSlayerGM
New member
LoL I like your logic
You'll find hundreds of people annoyed at anything taken away again. Only a small percentage really makes the effort to mod it back in. And the ones that really do have just followed the First Rule of 7 Days Club: Mod it
Why not leave it in, bump up the damage that zombies do, and decrease the experience reward? I don't play single player, but have to agree that even on MP we farm zombies for XP. I don't know that this is necessarily a huge game breaker for my group, but I can see how it does deviate a bit from what I thought was the orginal intent of the game.
Maybe there should be a Creative/Survival/Action game types?
I am glad that you and your group of friends agree with each other. It very well may be why you are a group of friends.
Now, for the other 330 million people in this country we have different opinions. Some people like the changes, some do not.
I am not quite sure that they give cry babies too much credit, as I have not seen any great endorsement of your logic, but I will clue you in to a little secret kid; those complainers are the people that pay the bills. You kind of have to please your customers. You'll hear that in your ninth grade economics class.
Jay_ombie
New member
A18 is looking to taste like good old 7 Days again...
But hunger continues as week after week goes by and we now into the third(ish) month since last major update ?
I thought the process of updating from here on wards was going to be swifter & easier etc. I can see a lot of art and coding being done (probably yet to be done as well) can not help thinking we looking at least 6 months till A18 hits us which feels agonising considering the year(and over?) we waited for A17 to land.
But hunger continues as week after week goes by and we now into the third(ish) month since last major update ?
I thought the process of updating from here on wards was going to be swifter & easier etc. I can see a lot of art and coding being done (probably yet to be done as well) can not help thinking we looking at least 6 months till A18 hits us which feels agonising considering the year(and over?) we waited for A17 to land.
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Pille
Prefab Creator and Great Galactic Imperator
Maybe take away the whole xp stuff. It's not gonna work very well anyways. You're just chasing your own tail trying to integrate it in a way that fits the game. ;-P Action-Bound xp just hurts your game. I never thought I'd say this, but Roland had a great idea - "Daily Skillpoint For Surviving".
Link to his mod:
https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?114413-0XP-RolMod
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Perlin_Worm
New member
Player 1: Ready for this l33t dungeon crawl?
Player 2: Are you crazy?! We score a free skill point in two hours. I’m not moving until I get it.
Player 2: Are you crazy?! We score a free skill point in two hours. I’m not moving until I get it.
Perlin_Worm
New member
I still say l33t 
You do realize that you lament about them failing the release date for A18 long before they failed the release date? :cocksure:
Personally, I think the xp on the zombies is fine, it's the 'risk' that is missing, and how we approach and view the zombies now.
In the early builds, getting the "infection" actually caused a sense of dread and urgency. Then it was a priority to find antibiotics to cure it, because the antibiotics were rare and turned into the first real goal of trying to get a mini stockpile of them throughout the game.
It wasn't until the mid/later part of the game, to where you had a decent supply of them, that the zombie smashing really started to take place (at least for me).
That sense of urgency is missing now, not because I'm so much better at the game, but the 'fear' of getting infected is pretty much gone.
Sure, we can still die at the hands of the zombies now, if we are caught unawares, or we did something risky to get pummeled to death, or failed to bring enough bandages, but they really are nothing more than targets at a shooting gallery now, little risk involved.
I remember quite a few times, fighting zeds, wining the confrontation, only to get infected in the process, then the new urgency and need of finding a way to cure. This often resulted in traveling, looting, fighting more zeds in the process (if I didn't have the materials to make the antibiotics on hand) because just getting all the ingredients together, or finding the antibiotics themselves, was longer to come by, which made the threat of getting infected meaningful.
Now? It's nothing more than an after thought, after the first couple/few days in game at best, and that it's basically impossible for the infection to kill you.
In the early builds, getting the "infection" actually caused a sense of dread and urgency. Then it was a priority to find antibiotics to cure it, because the antibiotics were rare and turned into the first real goal of trying to get a mini stockpile of them throughout the game.
It wasn't until the mid/later part of the game, to where you had a decent supply of them, that the zombie smashing really started to take place (at least for me).
That sense of urgency is missing now, not because I'm so much better at the game, but the 'fear' of getting infected is pretty much gone.
Sure, we can still die at the hands of the zombies now, if we are caught unawares, or we did something risky to get pummeled to death, or failed to bring enough bandages, but they really are nothing more than targets at a shooting gallery now, little risk involved.
I remember quite a few times, fighting zeds, wining the confrontation, only to get infected in the process, then the new urgency and need of finding a way to cure. This often resulted in traveling, looting, fighting more zeds in the process (if I didn't have the materials to make the antibiotics on hand) because just getting all the ingredients together, or finding the antibiotics themselves, was longer to come by, which made the threat of getting infected meaningful.
Now? It's nothing more than an after thought, after the first couple/few days in game at best, and that it's basically impossible for the infection to kill you.
RestInPieces
New member
True, there's no real risk - fortunately they said that they will rework the disease system. It's a mess atm.
But even if it worked great, antibiotics were actually a valuable commodity and there was a large change of getting infected and die... why exactly would anyone care if death itself, the end result, is of no or little consequence?
Hopefully, they will add an option for a more severe DP. And those who decide to pick it shall reap the long-term benefits they do or don't know they need. Let the rest enjoy the short-term :>
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hehe.
Even back in the early builds 'Death', didn't really have all that much meaning then. Getting the 'infection' however, sparked a sense of urgency, that pushed you to get it cured, even if it didn't have a penalty if you died from it.
..and I do want a real penalty upon death at some point.
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