PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[RestInPieces]

Crafting all the parts yourself and at will is gated by perks which is convenient but not required to build a vehicle.

Nice, I think that this is a good way to handle many recipes. You can do the same with other major recipes as well gating them behind RNG and also adding an alternative surefire way to acquire them that will require quite a bit of work or investment, through crafting/quests/exploration etc.

 

[Menace312]

Oh, ruining forges, fixing forges, bad puns, changing forges yet again, haggling with coders over new features and how they need to be implemented, haggling with Joel and/or the designer group over what features are intended to do and why, writing the XML to make perks / magazines do what they are supposed to, playing Ark, fixing bugs, setting up block data for new models or the occasional request from level designers.You know, stuff?

Hah, what a time!

Makes my job seem like a sentence in comparison...

(I wonder if the pay is any good though )

 

[Gazz]

Hah, what a time!Makes my job seem like a sentence in comparison...

(I wonder if the pay is any good though )

Heh. I'm there part time (I have a real job, too. =) and I'm not complaining.

It's certainly interesting because "design, technical design, game data and balancing" has me all over the place.

100+ book perks + the research / technical design to be able to task programmers with the required code to make it possible to do all the effects can be a daunting task until you break it down into manageable parts and a workflow.

If it was easy everyone would do it, right?

There are mathy parts like this that some people find off-putting but you need something like that or it would have been impossible to do any gamestaged spawns. Pre-generating this keeps the actual spawning code "simple" (there are plenty of gotchas as is) and separates the game data from the code so it can be changed (or modded) easily.

 

[meganoth]

The problem is that if they are not balanced most players will be inclined to do an activity to farm XP and ruin their own experience. That's just what happens - not only in this game... And they have to be balanced depending on XP/time, mostly ignoring resource gain, as counter-intuitive as that may sound. As for zombies they should award minimal or no XP imo.

I agree somewhat, I would like it if zombies don't give much XP and scavenger XP could be mainly from looting boxes, because THAT can#t be spammed easily.

Another solution would be diminishing returns for zombie XP in fast succession. I.e. any zombie killed in the 10 seconds after a zombie kill gives just 1/4 of normal XP. Prevents farming effectively (and surely will produce heated discussions :cocksure: ).

TFP should also turn off that damn XP popup

PS: One other thought: People only playing for xp exist and TFP has to acount for them but they are probably not the target group they balance the game for.

 

[madmole]

Well zombies do give you a respectable amount of XP, but considering they come to your door, in droves, are infinite and die rather fast at default settings it easily makes them the best way to level early on. Which is why a lot of people complain about "the game becoming a zombie grind". Loot containers are few and finite and can't exactly be used to "farm exp".
Yes, as I said, mining later on, when you get the perks and tools that increase your block damage, becomes the fastest way to level.

The problem is that if they are not balanced most players will be inclined to do an activity to farm XP and ruin their own experience. That's just what happens - not only in this game... And they have to be balanced depending on XP/time, mostly ignoring resource gain, as counter-intuitive as that may sound. As for zombies they should award minimal or no XP imo.

I don't see this logic. Punish the guys who risk their lives doing the most dangerous thing in the game? Its a zombie killing game always has been. If we take away the xp bar maybe people will just play the game. Its not a race to unlock a perk. With pretty much all crafting ungated by perks in A18 I don't think people will be racing to level as much.

 

[madmole]

We will can not buy parts from traiders?

If he has them and you can afford them. 1,500,000 for a bike handle bars.

 

[madmole]

Any plans to improve traps at all? for example wood/iron spikes do such little damage now that they aren't really worth using. Even more so now with the zombies pathing properly most of the spikes don't even get used as they all tend to funnel down the same path.

You aren't making enough of them.

 

[n2n1]

You aren't making enough of them.

ahhhh.....You're right, but that's a bad answer.

I also think that it is not a natural behavior when the zombies using the magic of GPS avoid obstacles without even seeing workaround. Seems like they're holding a plan to get out the back door when they wake up. Looks weird.

 

[Katitof]

Its not a race to unlock a perk. With pretty much all crafting ungated by perks in A18 I don't think people will be racing to level as much.

I don't think you know how hardcore try-hards mind operates.....

(everything is a race to them, if they can't beat the game or best stuff asap, the game is ♥♥♥♥)

 

[Menace312]

Heh. I'm there part time (I have a real job, too. =) and I'm not complaining.It's certainly interesting because "design, technical design, game data and balancing" has me all over the place.

100+ book perks + the research / technical design to be able to task programmers with the required code to make it possible to do all the effects can be a daunting task until you break it down into manageable parts and a workflow.

If it was easy everyone would do it, right?

There are mathy parts like this that some people find off-putting but you need something like that or it would have been impossible to do any gamestaged spawns. Pre-generating this keeps the actual spawning code "simple" (there are plenty of gotchas as is) and separates the game data from the code so it can be changed (or modded) easily.

So... You're the glue/database/vault in the office?

 

[RestInPieces]

I don't see this logic. Punish the guys who risk their lives doing the most dangerous thing in the game? Its a zombie killing game always has been. If we take away the xp bar maybe people will just play the game. Its not a race to unlock a perk. With pretty much all crafting ungated by perks in A18 I don't think people will be racing to level as much.

I remember you saying a few years ago, that you wanted zombies to be more of an obstacle rather than a goal in the game. Is it more of a zombie killing game or a zombie survival game? They definitely shouldn't be punished, but on the other hand, should they be rewarded enough to actively hunt them down? Because I am sure you already know that if it is *too* beneficial to keep killing zombies (or do any activity) compared to anything else, most people will just do that, even if they don't particularly enjoy it. Even those who do initially enjoy it, will not enjoy it for long because in the end it is something repetitive.

Taking away the bar and popup will definitely be of help towards this goal. And yes, recipes being tied to leveling were part of what made people "race" and feel so inclined to level. These and balancing xp sources, will probably make the xp system be something that compliments the game instead of being its goal (which is good in my book).

Personally I wish you reward exploration more in the future (the books are a good start), but you could also bring back RNG to some major recipes, while also having an alternative way that players can 100% get them by working hard/quests/investing points etc, like you will do with the vehicles.

 

[Gazz]

I don't think you know how hardcore try-hards mind operates.....(everything is a race to them, if they can't beat the game or best stuff asap, the game is ♥♥♥♥)

That's how crossfit yoga was born.

So... You're the glue/database/vault in the office?

I try to appear unimportant so people don't give me more complex tasks.

Seriously, though, I mostly work somewhere between the designers and coders. I don't touch C+ code (we have people who are way better at that than I'll ever be) but I have to understand what's going on under the hood and what can be hooked into and how. Sometimes I try to shape designs so that they fit into existing frameworks and data structures because a programming task can be greatly complicated by a tiny detail that the current systems were absolutely not built for.

 

[Aldranon]

I don't see this logic. Punish the guys who risk their lives doing the most dangerous thing in the game? Its a zombie killing game always has been. If we take away the xp bar maybe people will just play the game. Its not a race to unlock a perk. With pretty much all crafting ungated by perks in A18 I don't think people will be racing to level as much.

So killing zombies will have a point soon or is this a graphic enhanced Clicker Heroes?

Players will race to get perk points until they get the perks they need and then might slow down afterwards. I like Roland great idea of using days alive as a driver for exp/perks.

 

[Aerial]

So killing zombies will have a point soon or is this a graphic enhanced Clicker Heroes?
Players will race to get perk points until they get the perks they need and then might slow down afterwards. I like Roland great idea of using days alive as a driver for exp/perks.

If surviving were truly difficult, time passage would be a great driver for level/experience gain. But since it isn't, people would just hunker down in a POI and wait to accrue skill points and then complain about how boring the game is

I think part of the issue is that the current schema makes XP the *sole* driver of progression in the game, and therefore it becomes difficult for the gameplay to balance enough varied sources of XP to keep things interesting. If the game had a clear progression in biome difficulties with enemies and loot that only existed in those biomes, or a clear progression in learning skills by doing, or a clear progression in acquiring skills through quests or even RNG, etc, there would be less incentive to grind.

 

[Menace312]

I try to appear unimportant so people don't give me more complex tasks.

Seriously, though, I mostly work somewhere between the designers and coders. I don't touch C+ code (we have people who are way better at that than I'll ever be) but I have to understand what's going on under the hood and what can be hooked into and how. Sometimes I try to shape designs so that they fit into existing frameworks and data structures because a programming task can be greatly complicated by a tiny detail that the current systems were absolutely not built for.

Well that does sound like a "glue" type role to me.

I understand dodging more work, since juggling lots of lose ends, can easily make one forget 1 or 2 of them.

Then the community go haywire, and then Gazz gets the blame... Urgh...

Balance is an art form, right...

 

[RestInPieces]

Also guys, for 18 or even 17.3 if possible, please:

-Make nightmare speed much faster than player sprint speed. There are 4 speed settings and I would really like to have a practical reason to barricade myself/make a base, instead of just being able to avoid anything by running. The very short zombie memory is also at fault in this.

-I know it's the 1000th option you've been asked to add, but it would be great if there was an option for a more meaningful DP which stacks and is more severe like in 17.0. Atm, it is just barely and circumstantially impactful.

 

[Ezed]

I wonder if we'll ever be able to craft beakers and Sham sandwiches? Also, a BBQ or something more advanced than a campfire to cook with?

I can craft a glass jar, so why not a slightly larger glass jar? Can craft Sham and cornbread but can't combine then into a tasty(?) snack. Can craft internal combustion engines but not even a toaster oven.

Thanks, that's all for today, enjoy your weekends.

 

[Roland]

Also guys, for 18 or even 17.3 if possible, please:
-Make nightmare speed much faster than player sprint speed. There are 4 speed settings and I would really like to have a practical reason to barricade myself/make a base, instead of just being able to avoid anything by running. The very short zombie memory is also at fault in this.

-I know it's the 1000th option you've been asked to add, but it would be great if there was an option for a more meaningful DP which stacks and is more severe like in 17.0. Atm, it is just barely and circumstantially impactful.

faatal has posted that there was a bug that prevented zombies and animals from moving as fast as they should and he has fixed it. Not sure if that will be in 17.3 but for sure 18

 

[RestInPieces]

I wonder if we'll ever be able to craft beakers and Sham sandwiches? Also, a BBQ or something more advanced than a campfire to cook with?
I can craft a glass jar, so why not a slightly larger glass jar? Can craft Sham and cornbread but can't combine then into a tasty(?) snack. Can craft internal combustion engines but not even a toaster oven.

Thanks, that's all for today

Every crafting station should get their electrical counterpart imo, which would have various additional QOL bonuses. Oven, electrical forge, electrical workbench, lab station, fridge (when they introduce spoilage - yes I am dreaming, leave me alone) etc.

faatal has posted that there was a bug that prevented zombies and animals from moving as fast as they should and he has fixed it. Not sure if that will be in 17.3 but for sure 18

That's great to hear. Hopefully after fixing that zombies will be faster than players on max speed.

 

[Gareee]

After reading all the a18 improvements and changes, I just can't see me wanting to even play a17.xx at all anymore.

A18.... feeling cute.. maybe I'll release in a few weeks... I don't know...