PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

You just have to much control on where and how the zombies attack. It reminds me now of one of those defence games where the enemy will just pile in one way and you can just pick them off. I just stand on a platform and have another platform in front of me that they run up and you just shoot the hell out of them and any that fall off just run back around and you do the same again. I just wish they attack more random and not some path that they will follow. Something just does not seem right with the pathing system to me. Having the zombie try and get to you and not attack what you are standing on makes it easy. Example type on youtube Shock Box Horde Base- Gain Exp and you will see what i am talking about

I haven't played in a while but this doesn't describe what Faatal committed.

 

[Odetta]

It would be helpful as I'm starting to lose faith in the vocal minority and considering reddit for a more sound platform.

Whatcha talkin bout Willis!?

 

[suicidalhamster]

100% madmole there buddy. Ok maybe a touch of Lathan and Gazz, but I did all the balancing and pricing work. Its still probably OP on quests but I'll evaluate that when I test 18. I'm back, the whole game will rock again, I need a few builds to get her in ship shape. In Pimps we trust.

can everyone smell that? thats what swagger smells like

 

[HungryZombie]

will there be a way to clear sleepers from a building forever? we completely demolished the poi's around our horde base for better line of sight, but the sleepers still spawn on the flat ground where the building was.
speaking of sleepers, i know it's just a jump scare tactic, but i often find myself wondering, how and why would a zombie carefully and precisely open that cabinet, walk in, and shut the door behind itself without getting any blood or scratches on said cabinet? this demonstrates a level of intelligence and dexterity in zombies i am not accustomed to

Because the zombie didn't do it. A person who was wounded and hiding from a group of bandits walked into the cabinet. Unfortunately they fell unconscious due to their wounds and died while waiting for the bandits to clear the area. You were the lucky first customer to make noise and wake it up!

 

[Odetta]

Uh ok. A, its not like we're cloning fallout. It is good basic genre reference for a post apocalyptic universe, raiders, scavvers, settlers. I like their quest system, character system, building is even a lot of fun but won't work for a voxel game. The ability to build a character class and get replay value is great, but its not like we're going for a full on rpg, we're at heart always a survival game in a zombie apocalypse, with RPG elements. A light RPG if you will.
Nothing wrong with that. And uh I guarantee you will be there for the next EA, there is no way you will be able to sit on the sidelines with a new TFP game sitting there waiting to be played. I'm not saying you'll sink 1000's of hours into EA, but to ignore it completely? I don't think you are built for that either lol.

I hope your new game is voxel based also.

 

[beHypE]

I don't know, I feel like the radiated should be smarter, since they've managed to live long. The way I would implement it is:
* normal zombies would be dumb and just follow the path over and over and damage blocks while doing so

* feral would be somewhat smart and follow the path but would try other ways of getting to you either by digging or clawing the walls

* radiated would be the smartest and instead of following the path would instead head directly to where the player is and destroy the obstacle that would allow them the easiest way in

Of cousre the above would mean death for those like me who play with others that exploit the zombies. But, a player would still be able to adpat to the changing dynamics.

This is a very good idea and would be a decent way to both add diversity in pathlines AND actually help fine-tuning gamestage implications for bloodmoon hordes quite a bit.

 

[HungryZombie]

Sorry but that is bs. I don't use either of those methods and my base is just fine. I pretty much build as I always built. I suggest you try other methods besides the two you mentioned. Just because there are two methods that cheese the AI, it doesn't mean they are the only two methods. There were actually very few base designs that I a saw pre-Alpha 17. Stilt bases and column 50 bases pretty much over and over and over and over again. Also, I am seeing zombies attack my base at multiple points. I hope that you like others seem to be doing are actually referencing A17.2 and not just your memory of A17.0....

I think the complaints are from people wanting to defend their stilt bases on the hardest difficulty with a wooden bow before the horde brings the base down.

 

[Pegasus]

What are you on about? We went from ugly photoshopped 16 to 256 pixel hack textures to proper 3d PBR textures that are 1024, and added many new ones. What was removed?

I think you are confusing textures with paint ... or paintable textures. Several paintable textures were removed ... and the ones that remain have been "improved" to the point they make me cry. You have also removed the ability mod in textures. If we could mod them in it'd be a non-issue.

I'm going to try to figure out how to do this ... I'm trying to show the difference between a16 and a17.

I was going to post the pictures, but then figured it'd make the post huge and unwieldy and mean to those not interested in this subject. So I'll post the links to imgur ... let me know if I didn't do this right please?

A16 paint menu page 1 ...vs... A17 paint menu page 1

Spoiler

A16 paint menu page 2 ...vs... A17 paint menu page 2

Spoiler

A16 paint menu page 3 ...vs... A17 paint menu page 3

Spoiler

Okay ... now for the nitty gritty:

Bookshelves have been removed. The tree paintings have been removed. Stainless steel refrigerator sections have been removed. The solid paint textures now look like they have mange. The red wood is now dull brown. There are others, but those are my biggest pain points right now.

A16 blue paint, a pretty sky blue:

https://imgur.com/5f8cu4I

A17 blue paint, a nasty greyish blueish mange pit:

https://imgur.com/lSy3klt

A16 green paint, a lovely green:

https://imgur.com/oCMMUwq

A17 "green" paint ... a nasty greyish green that looks like a dead orc with mange:

https://imgur.com/oDA9wWc

A16 red wood ... suitable for floors and walls and looking pretty:

https://imgur.com/t4RP1NA

A17 red wood ... a lovely brown, suitable for a barn floor, not to be confused with, or the same color as, barn wood, which is actually a prettier red than the "red" wood:

https://imgur.com/ZneKAN1

So yes, you did add in more paint textures ... most of which no one wants to use because they are (and I'm sorry, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings) butt ugly.

You "improved" existing textures, making them JUST as butt ugly, so i guess it's a theme.

I can post more pics if needed, can go paint texture by paint texture ... but i don't want to make this post longer than it needs to be.

Thank you.

Edit: Thank you Roland!!! You made it better!

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Thank you.

And thank you for taking the time to gather all of that.

I'm particularly interested in several of the solid colors on A16 page 2. Sometimes I just need them when building POIs. The black especially.

 

[chikorina]

17.3 very very soon. 12 bugs left.

Very soon! Thank you. The only thing that really bothers me about the current version is the lag, especially on servers. In our last horde night, it was so bad that the zombies stopped attacking and just walked around in circles. It's a rented server that was working fine in A16. Supposedly, you focused on optimization for the 17.3 update, so I'm looking forward to that. All the other bugs can be dealt with and changed to our liking, just not that lag, it makes the game very stressful. If it goes back to running as smoothly as 16.4, that would be great.

 

[HungryZombie]

The AI was worse in some regards in A16, like how zombies would just spin in circles below you.

The main difference between A16 and A17 now though is that in A16, you could build a base surrounded by spikes and kite the zombies around though the spikes. Now if they make a hole in the spike defenses they just all flow into it bypassing the rest of the spikes.

Also, if you had some kind of box or cage set up, the zombies would spread out pretty evenly around your base, giving you more time to defend yourself. Now it seems they all just focus on one block.

Not judging if A17 is better or worse than A16 just explaining what I think is in the minds of many of those complaining.

 

[Weazelsun]

Who knows... We post, y'all post, neither side gives in, it's the internet.

In regards to the mining thing. It was originally a response that madmole made to me after, I complained about something repair kits blah blah blah. That's all behind us already. So w/e.

 

[Tete1805]

Madmole, you sure have a thick skin and a damn good sense of humor. Love it!

 

[Roland]

Yes the complaints about 17's zombie AI being bad continue to boggle my mind, when you look at how bad they were before 17.

I haven't played in a while but this doesn't describe what Faatal committed.

It also doesn't describe A17.2. But it does describe Alpha 17.0 and 17.1 before faatal committed some of his fixes and adjustments. I've come to discover that some of the complainers have actually never played 17.2 but either quit or reverted back to A16 after deciding they didn't like Alpha 17. When they come on here to push their agenda for change it is all from their memory of giving 17.0 a try-- not realizing that changes were made in 17.2.

In A17.2 you do get zombies giving up on long pathways and randomly going into destroy mode. I know this is true from my own observations and I know it is true because I've read posts from players who actually have played 17.2 complaining <shocker> that the zombies aren't as predictable as they used to be and are making dumb choices and they don't like that....

 

[Bubo]

I think you are confusing textures with paint ... or paintable textures. Several paintable textures were removed ... and the ones that remain have been "improved" to the point they make me cry. You have also removed the ability mod in textures. If we could mod them in it'd be a non-issue.
I'm going to try to figure out how to do this ... I'm trying to show the difference between a16 and a17...

Thanks for the comparison :tickled_pink:

I liked the darker blue that was also removed.



I hope some nice solid colors can be revisited in the future.

 

[Roland]

Roland, the one who enjoys stirring the pot lol.

All I ask for is Bear Meat, an iron pot, and a sharp stick to stir her by...

 

[Survager]

Maybe the AI of zombies in A17 is "not bad".... but it is absolutely inadequate.

What is an adequate zombie? )))

 

[FA_Q2]

There are 171 available textures in A17 and only 166 in A16. I agree with you though. Afaik the maximal number of textures is limited to 255 (raising this number would probably require far reaching changes), so there still room for some new textures.

I have been talking about paint textures. In game paint textures available to the player. It is nowhere near 100.

 

[Pegasus]

I took a hiatus for A17 design and we hired a guy for that. He's gone and we hired some way better artists than me, so all I do now is design, balance and a bit of technical art and give feedback on art and animation. My focus now is to be the best game designer I can be. Rick and I didn't test together either in A17 (we did every other alpha) because we were so busy, A18 we are committed to doing that again and we'll strike a better balance doing that IMO.

Here's a thought ... maybe you guys should spend some time playing the game ... I mean playing as a regular player, not using creative mode or god powers. Maybe try playing on some MP servers. See how the game plays as it currently exists. Then maybe you'd be more in touch with what we're saying about the game, instead of giving us opinions and thoughts based on snippets of game play and exposure to works in progress.

I'm sure the works in progress are great, and I'm glad you get to play with them. But playing with them and then telling us you don't know what we're talking about is just insulting. I get that you don't give a skinny rat's ass about insulting us or belittling us ... but it might clue you in to why we're often so bloody freaking angry.

 

[Guppycur]

Roland, the one who enjoys stirring the pot lol.

It is legal there...