PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

  • A18 Stable is Out!

    Votes: 2 66.7%

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    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Total voters
    3
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Again, Madmole is talking about the default vanilla version of the game that they want to get to gold. I can’t count how many times people have requested in the past for TFP to polish what they have, optimize, fix the remaining bugs and release the game. TFP now feels the same way.

But it doesn’t mean they don’t plan to continue to support and add content post gold. Complexity and additional content beyond the scope of the game ideal for those who have already digested the basic game will mostly be supplied by modders. It is the way the game was designed and conceived.

Now you can be grateful about the fact that TFP has allowed their game to be so fully transformable or you can be spiteful that TFP is leaving that stuff up to modders. The attitude about it is on you.

It boggles my mind that someone just a few posts up was ranting about Ravenhearst making the game deep and more fun— instead of celebrating that fact.

I strongly disagree that because modders are and will be taking this game to higher levels of entertainment that it is a negative thing or a smear on the reputation of TFP. That is crazy talk.

 
Again, Madmole is talking about the default vanilla version of the game that they want to get to gold. I can’t count how many times people have requested in the past for TFP to polish what they have, optimize, fix the remaining bugs and release the game. TFP now feels the same way.
But it doesn’t mean they don’t plan to continue to support and add content post gold. Complexity and additional content beyond the scope of the game ideal for those who have already digested the basic game will mostly be supplied by modders. It is the way the game was designed and conceived.

Now you can be grateful about the fact that TFP has allowed their game to be so fully transformable or you can be spiteful that TFP is leaving that stuff up to modders. The attitude about it is on you.

It boggles my mind that someone just a few posts up was ranting about Ravenhearst making the game deep and more fun— instead of celebrating that fact.

I strongly disagree that because modders are and will be taking this game to higher levels of entertainment that it is a negative thing or a smear on the reputation of TFP. That is crazy talk.
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Yeh, maybe players that look up to that modders are sensitive to the "look at me!" attitude of some of that modders lately? Dunno...

Cheers

 
I always thought building a settlement with NPC's would be an awesome end game goal. You'd make your own faction to rival the Duke and White River. As the founder of the feast you would in charge of every aspect, like you suggested. Then you'd get attacked by zombos or raiders or setting up a trade deal with White River. I can see some not liking it though, as it conflicts with the "last man on earth" fantasy, well you and the trader.
Almost like Rimworld but not insane.
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My original purpose for coming to these forums was to ask questions about this. I intended to create exactly that mod.

It wasn't quite possible in A16 and it's completely impossible right now. Hopefully, before it goes gold, 7D2D will have the ability to hook into AI again, and will have the ability to mod in faction allegiances and so forth.

From MM's recent comments though, I would not hold your breath.

 
Again, Madmole is talking about the default vanilla version of the game that they want to get to gold. I can’t count how many times people have requested in the past for TFP to polish what they have, optimize, fix the remaining bugs and release the game. TFP now feels the same way.
But it doesn’t mean they don’t plan to continue to support and add content post gold. Complexity and additional content beyond the scope of the game ideal for those who have already digested the basic game will mostly be supplied by modders. It is the way the game was designed and conceived.

Now you can be grateful about the fact that TFP has allowed their game to be so fully transformable or you can be spiteful that TFP is leaving that stuff up to modders. The attitude about it is on you.

It boggles my mind that someone just a few posts up was ranting about Ravenhearst making the game deep and more fun— instead of celebrating that fact.

I strongly disagree that because modders are and will be taking this game to higher levels of entertainment that it is a negative thing or a smear on the reputation of TFP. That is crazy talk.
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You really don’t get it, you guys had a game with high levels of entertainment with depth, all you had to do was build upon it, but instead you rip it all out and turn the game into another generic zombie game. Good luck selling the game to kids who play fortnite and only want to spend 20 hours on the game. But i do agree, thank god tfp are supporting modding. Sad the direction the gaming industry to going.

 
It makes sense to focus on the 20-30 hour demographic, since that's where there's money to be made. Not the 1000+ people.
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But is that really true?

People on the forums seem to be saying that TFP are abandoning their core market - to cater to one that may not even be receptive to 7D2D in the first place.

Sure there are a lot more warm bodies in the 20-30 hour demographic. But how many of those warm bodies would even consider buying a FPS zombie survival crafting game?

Or will they instead go for a game that has interactive NPCs with personalities, a stated campaign goal, and a curated story line that takes 20-30 hours to complete?

Also:

As far as I know future content will be free.
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See? You're already better than Bethesda.

 
Most AAA games have about 6-10 hours of play, so aiming for 20-30 with hobby potential is still a very admirable design goal. The fact people play it 5000 hours or more is just bonus. I'm happy if I buy a game I play for more than 2 hours. If I can get 20-30 hours out of a game I'm super happy with it.
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But you should not throw all the games in a pot and stir. There are differences between an Open World Sandbox Survival Game and a game with a straight course and hose levels. 20 to 30 hours on average would mean that the average player only plays day 20 to day 30. So 2 to 3 Blood Moon hordes.

The game also has a high replay value, which leads to indirect advertising (for example, through videos on youtube).

I think it is the desire of players for more diversity in their opponents when they ask for different clothing. They probably assume that this is easier to implement than new opponents.

How about adding a few more specific enemies for the biomes? For the snow area, a polar wolf that is harder to spot due to its white fur. Or a crocodile for the forest area. Why can not you be poisoned by the serpent in the desert? For the steppe a hippo and a hyena. Will there ever be an opponent in the water?

Then the biomes would feel even more different, which may increase the average game time.

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

 
Great! But then why call it dlc? Why not just update?
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If the content is optional, and changes the game significantly. Basically, if it's DLC that is the equivalent of an "overhaul" mod.

Say, TFP want to release an add-on of all the late-game NPC stuff. Multiple factions, traders of different factions, variable player allegiance, followers and colony building, etc.

Ideally all this could be modded in - but making the code changes to even make it possible to mod in, would take a lot of work.

Now, many players want this NPC system, but just as many don't, and it would modify the vanilla game enough to anger the ones who don't.

It makes total sense to release this as DLC.

 
Great! But then why call it dlc? Why not just update?
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As webskorpion says, it's extra content, that actually change the game, but maybe in a radical way. In the old days, we would call this an expansion pack, but now it's more known for just being something you fetch over the net. DLC just stands for DownLoadable Content and might cost money or might not. Depends on the developer..

 
The true potential of this game does lye within the modders and there are so really great ones here I love to play Ravenhearst and Darkfalls there overhauls are great but if you look at the overhauls they get away from what the game is designed around and that is being able to use alot of mods with them Sorcery is a fantastic mods and adds alot to the game but you cant use it with either of those games without modding the game alot yourself or hoping they will add he mods you like into there overhaul like Guppys vehicles or farming mod TFP is not perfect the truth is they are game developers not fortune 500 business men but from what I have seen they o try to keep the game modifiable so we can make it to what we as gamers want it to be I saw one of the big modders say the other day that they had to fix the game but if fixing the game means you cant use some mods and make it the way you want to play it is that really fixing the game or just fixing it the way you wanted it which is great for you and others who enjoy your overhauls but the base game has to remain modifiable for you to be able to fix it to what you want or think it should be Thanks to this game I have learned alot so far about how it works and modding and still have alot to learn but how many games out there offer you that and let you learn and challenge yourself to make it the way you want to play it not many the game is still a great concept yes things need to be fixed but as long as they keep it so people can challenge themselve and learn and make it there way then it is still a fantastic game as long as the modders are the future of the game I will be here playing it and learning remember the big modders in this game would not be here if the game was not as modifiable and Jax, Guppy, Khain, Spereii, and alot more to mention all the ones who hep others like me to learn and are there to answer questions this game made you famous in so many ways and all the people who look up to you Thank you for all your help now TFP please fix the RWG so we can find something else to gripe about :p

 
The sky isn't falling, folks. Just getting closer to the inevitable conclusion of going gold.

That they're adding in so much modding support (golden circle stuff here folks), is proof they're committed to us long timers.

 
Lets say its a bit foggy out here.

Btw the most we see the more we get excited and anxious, why so ?

 
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The 20-30 hour bit or less by Madmole, at this point, I'm pretty sure is talk out of his rear.

And I don't even mean that with disrespect. Just words that came out.

Someone made a good point about 20-30 hours equating to a few horde nights. Which, sounds about right. Which... Doesn't come close to exploring all content in vanilla.

*shrug* I stand by that his statement undervalues the game overall.

But, take the statement with a grain of salt.

Though, focusing on that first 20-30 hours of play, makes total sense. Focusing on 100+ hours of play. Meh.

 
Again, Madmole is talking about the default vanilla version of the game that they want to get to gold. I can’t count how many times people have requested in the past for TFP to polish what they have, optimize, fix the remaining bugs and release the game. TFP now feels the same way.
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I think a lot of people felt this way about 16 in hindsight to how 17 turned out. Some were looking forward to what the build would be now off 17.

Yeh, maybe players that look up to that modders are sensitive to the "look at me!" attitude of some of that modders lately? Dunno...
Cheers
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Interesting. Above all else I'm a player first modder second. I would throw RH is the trash right now if asked and continue to play for myself and my wife. RH was never supposed to be public. It was a server only mod. The people were drawn to it and I was asked to release it publicly. It's been a great experience but there are times my life would be FAR easier if I had never gone public. It feels a lot like a 9 to 5 at times.

That said I don't think I have heard any modders really trying to gain some type of glory. I have an opinion as do others. If you are allowed to express yours I am allowed to express mine, regardless of what I have released or done in the past. I dare say people like Ouch, Louie, Demonoid and Guppy should be listened to far before me. They have been here far longer.

Maybe it's because I am extremely passionate, be it positive or negative for what I believe in. And I believe in this game. And its potential to be so much more. The framework is amazing. I just wish the ones in charge could see that but I suspect the hoopla around A17 has soured the love for producing content and I understand that part. Still does not make it right to say what was said. Its something I would say but I'm not at the top of a gaming company. Especially in today's anti game dev climate.

But back to the original point I am wondering where you are getting this opinion that modders are trying to be above all others? Guppy? Stallion? Khaine? Telric? Sphere? Xyth? Tin? Myself? When have any of us ever made a post trying to get ourselves over at the expense of having a discussion or an opinion?

 
I don't think I should be listened to at all. I was once called a forum celebrity by a friend (stompy) and it felt weird.

I'm just a player, with no more stake in the the game than a first poster.

 
One thing that I would love to see is the hit points added to each block that you can make.

I mean you can already see how much material and time you need to make it. But you don't know how strong it is until you make it, place it and damage it.

 
Its not that, its being realistic about the demographic audience. Most people have better things to do then play one game for thousands of hours.
Most AAA games have about 6-10 hours of play, so aiming for 20-30 with hobby potential is still a very admirable design goal. The fact people play it 5000 hours or more is just bonus. I'm happy if I buy a game I play for more than 2 hours. If I can get 20-30 hours out of a game I'm super happy with it. We do want to create games that can become a hobby, but we can't expect people to play for thousands of hours and people who have played it for thousands of hours can't expect us to keep making it fun for them.

Then your on a slippery slope of adding late game crap 2% of players see. Its better to have less content that is super engaging for 20 hours than a ton of content that is meh or blocked.

Like I have to wonder how many players actually legit got tek gear in Ark on vanilla servers lol. What a waste of time making all those models and code for that stuff nobody ever got to use it unless they cheated.
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I think you'd best write a story then, because you just described an action-adventure and an RPG, respectively, not a storyless open-ended sandbox.

 
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