PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Guppycur]

I assume a baseball bat recipe is wood and a workbench? Maybe some resin? I dunno. Hoping it's just mods.

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speaking of the troll face how did someone come up with trolland?

He likes to troll, and I think he gave himself the name. Not sure. But it basically started with him saying you can wrench mines to diffuse them.

/Guppy History

 

[sillls]

New surface ores!

The first looks like Quartz crystal while the second looks out of place. Like someone dropped it off from the back of a pickup truck.

 

[Roland]

Yeah, I hope that it isn't like I am thinking it is. I don't want to collect baseball bat...parts!?!? in order to initially use it.I am hoping it's more along the lines of mod attachments..

Like a Weighted 'knob' mod, to make it swing faster.

or spike attachments for the barrel, for extra damage and increased bleeding effect.

or grip tape. Stuff like that..

Could be “baseball bat parts” is a placeholder for now and eventually it will be a unique named part. Same for the rest of the weapons. Good enough at least for experimental I would think.

 

[Tin]

Could be “baseball bat parts” is a placeholder for now and eventually it will be a unique named part. Same for the rest of the weapons. Good enough at least for experimental I would think.

haha that is all mods really are, the parts system re-branded. I just hope you can find/loot a bat and use it. Then get mods to trick it out after. Read/use the schematic. Once you read it, you are now able to make a wood bat at a workbench. I want my "Zombieville Slugger" Make an Aluminum bat version a find only.

 

[DaVegaNL]

Yeah because weapon parts were sooo annoying to collect, everything was too complicated and redundant. So of course we scrapped them and streamlined them in a17. And they will be back in a18 (albeit in a slightly different form)..

I mean, I'm all for meandering a bit (especially when it concerns rivers), but cmon..

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"Hey guys we are removing gun parts because they are kind of useless and bad design"
"Hey guys we are adding baseball bat parts to make things more interesting'

Damnit, i should have continued reading. Basically this.

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Could be “baseball bat parts” is a placeholder for now and eventually it will be a unique named part. Same for the rest of the weapons. Good enough at least for experimental I would think.

Placeholder systems.. really? Thought we were wayyy past that stage.

 

[meilodasreh]

haha that is all mods really are, the parts system re-branded. I just hope you can find/loot a bat and use it. Then get mods to trick it out after. Read/use the schematic. Once you read it, you are now able to make a wood bat at a workbench. I want my "Zombieville Slugger" Make an Aluminum bat version a find only.

Even having to read a schematic for being able to craft a baseball bat feels somehow out of place. I mean, you are able to craft perfectly cube shaped frames from a raw chunk of wood with your bare hands (using no nails or similar).

And what more is a bat than a smoothly curved/shaped and therefore nicely weighed/balanced wooden club? You should have an idea how to

craft one "out of the box" (or backpack in this case :smile-new: )

 

[alchemi2]

WOW do people NOT read and comprehend or only hear in their head what they want.

You find whole weapons, mainly the lowest level that are crappy, so you perk into that weapon by specializing it does slightly better ( imagine you can strip and clean it and have practiced for ages with it) You scrap the 20 crappy pistols into parts then rebuild a better one. As you get better your chances of finding/crafting better pistols improves.

You can still use other weapons your just not as good with or knowledgeable about them.

Once the game is out we will be able to better judge if they got it right and well balanced.

 

[Haidrgna]

WOW do people NOT read and comprehend or only hear in their head what they want.
You find whole weapons, mainly the lowest level that are crappy, so you perk into that weapon by specializing it does slightly better ( imagine you can strip and clean it and have practiced for ages with it) You scrap the 20 crappy pistols into parts then rebuild a better one. As you get better your chances of finding/crafting better pistols improves.

You can still use other weapons your just not as good with or knowledgeable about them.

Once the game is out we will be able to better judge if they got it right and well balanced.

The idea works well for firearms (and I am not talking game design, but just plain suspension of disbelief here). Guns can be dissambled into parts that could be reassembled into a new gun from parts from other guns. I can even see that needing a lot to get a good quality gun because you are basically discarding most and only using the very best parts. But a baseball bat is made out of a single piece of wood (or aluminium). How does a person go about breaking that up into bits and making a new one out of it. Same goes for most other melee weapons and tools too most likely. They are not made of granular parts but mostly just a few components.

If they are doing actual weapon parts using the attachment system, then it could work if the parts to upgrade the basic bat are added later. But needing parts of broken down bat to CRAFT a new higher tier bat just does not make any sense.

 

[Gazz]

Every high end weapon or tool that you can craft has parts.

Simple and consistent. Baseball bats are no special snowflakes. They are weapons.

Very much unlike the previous weapon parts system, low level weapons or their parts are not frustratingly useless and scrapping them to bring the parts home and maybe craft something better with them saves inventory space.

The previous weapon parts were also in no way comparable to mods. They offered zero choice and gameplay, only micromanagement.

 

[n2n1]

But we forgot that, this micromanagement - was interesting, and this is the main thing.

It doesn't matter that it's - micromanagement.

Why do you think micromanagement has to be boring just because it's "micromanagement"?

No need to think in patterns

It turns out that this micromanagement was a game in the game.

You collected different parts and because of the fact that often came across low quality - was a joy when you come across a high-quality part. That was the reward. She's gone.

Now it looks like the usual customization of weapons in hundreds of other games. There is no true motivation.

It may seem that i protect the parts system - but no, i just point out what the old was better than the new in terms of interesting gameplay. New system is ...hmmm...more intelligent...but still no quite interesting.

Need to do something with her....for A18...of course. This is a thread about A18? correctly?

(Moderators, seems we need a separate thread! )

 

[RestInPieces]

But we forgot that, this micromanagement - was interesting, and this is the main thing. It doesn't matter that it's - micromanagement.

Why do you think micromanagement has to be boring just because it's "micromanagement"?

No need to think in patterns

Indeed, micromanagement is always used as a negative term, while many enjoyable features in the game like crafting or player needs are literally built on it. Surely some kinds of micromanagement are more engaging than others and some are bloated or useless.

Imo this is an example of scrapping a system instead of trying to improve it, only to replace it with something more bland. Weapons were chase items and finding a weapon or assembling one was way more gratifying, especially with the current extravagant drop rate.

I agree with Gazz when he says that "weapon parts offered zero choice" etc but if they didn't, you could easily have made them offer a ton of choices by just (random example from the top of my head) enabling multiple weapon part combinations for "custom" weapons (without needing new models or anything that required much work).

Imo an example of micromanagement which DOES offer something to gameplay, but is bloated, is the inventory slot system, which could be improved to offer the exact same things to the gameplay while becoming less bloated (e.g. the player not having to open his inventory every time he picks something by mistake, belt slots counting towards the max number of slots etc).

 

[Viktoriusiii]

Every high end weapon or tool that you can craft has parts.Simple and consistent. Baseball bats are no special snowflakes. They are weapons.

Very much unlike the previous weapon parts system, low level weapons or their parts are not frustratingly useless and scrapping them to bring the parts home and maybe craft something better with them saves inventory space.

The previous weapon parts were also in no way comparable to mods. They offered zero choice and gameplay, only micromanagement.

And yet another thing where TFP disregard consistency, logic and immersion for gameplay. But hey... the rest looks good so I'm not losing hope yet... I will use the Steel Sledgehammer anyways

Also what n2n1 said.

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I agree with Gazz when he says that "weapon parts offered zero choice" etc but if they didn't, you could easily have made them offer a ton of choices by just (random example from the top of my head) enabling multiple weapon part combinations for "custom" weapons (without needing new models or anything that required much work).

Ever since the introduction of weapon parts I asked them to give items random stats (like they will in A18) based on their level. And certain things like accuracy, chance of a faulty chamber and so on could be affected. Now there is a choice between a gun that deals more damage and is more accurate and a pistol that doesn't break and is more silent.

 

[meganoth]

If they are doing actual weapon parts using the attachment system, then it could work if the parts to upgrade the basic bat are added later. But needing parts of broken down bat to CRAFT a new higher tier bat just does not make any sense.

Even having to read a schematic for being able to craft a baseball bat feels somehow out of place. I mean, you are able to craft perfectly cube shaped frames from a raw chunk of wood with your bare hands (using no nails or similar).And what more is a bat than a smoothly curved/shaped and therefore nicely weighed/balanced wooden club? You should have an idea how to

craft one "out of the box" (or backpack in this case :smile-new: )

Not the realism argument again. Where were you in the previous alphas when you needed a recipe to make a club with nails in it? Or a boiled egg.

Just accept that there are adjustment for game balances sake that resemble reality only if you squint. Otherwise I have to invoke Godwin's law and mention the number of concrete blocks in the backpack? :cocksure:

PS: If you build a baseball bat in A18 just with a carving knife and no knowledge, guess what you get? A club.

 

[KingSlayerGM]

Every high end weapon or tool that you can craft has parts.Simple and consistent. Baseball bats are no special snowflakes. They are weapons.

This consistency isn't inherently good. Sometimes diversity is interesting and enjoyable. On the other hand, having different things working the same way may feel forced sometimes. But maybe this weapon system will be good

 

[meganoth]

"Hey guys we are adding baseball bat parts to make things more interesting"

I'm pretty sure they didn't add weapon parts to make things more interesting. It is simply a crafting gate, otherwise you would put 2 perk points into the weapon you want and craft it instead of hoping to scavenge it or selecting a weapon on basis of what you find.

I liked the old weapon parts too, but it was a love-hate relationship, exactly because of the micro-management. I'll see in A18 if the random stats system of the new weapons is a better replacement, it at least promises to have the same effect with less micro-m.

 

[AngryGamer]

@faatal needs a unique avatar too! For people like me, who casually browse through this thread in search of dev responses.

 

[Haidrgna]

Not the realism argument again. Where were you in the previous alphas when you needed a recipe to make a club with nails in it? Or a boiled egg.
Just accept that there are adjustment for game balances sake that resemble reality only if you squint. Otherwise I have to invoke Godwin's law and mention the number of concrete blocks in the backpack? :cocksure:

PS: If you build a baseball bat in A18 just with a carving knife and no knowledge, guess what you get? A club.

Yes the realism argument, hence I modded those things you mentioned in the previous alphas and will do again this time around if they keep being silly about it. But the baseball bat being able to be crafted from broken baseball bats is just one step to far where it is no longer gameplay convenience anymore but just plain on ridicule.

Anyway it seems they have a system they want to introduce and cram everything into it for the sake of streamlining, I get that part. Just sometimes you also need some exceptions to keep things believable.

 

[Ezed]

...
Anyway it seems they have a system they want to introduce and cram everything into it for the sake of streamlining, I get that part. Just sometimes you also need some exceptions to keep things believable.

Aye. Even just 2 parts for bats, axes, hammers, etc. and 5 or whatever it'll be for firearms, chainsaws, vehicles, etc.

I can suspend belief...but there comes a certain point where the ropes start to snap. I think sometimes MM or whoever makes these decisions gets too hyper focused on making one catch all system that works across the board.

Also, I don't want to see the systems in the game get ridiculed in Steam reviews and discussions as sometimes happens.

I guess we'll have to wait and see...if it really is that silly, maybe they'll change it...again...

 

[The Gronk]

Every rule has an exception.

Rule : Building custom weapons is good as they can be made from different quality parts and some parts have different abilities.

Exception : Baseball bats.

Unless you're counting different types of material to make the bat with. You can't fashion a great baseball bat from any old stick and you can't panel beat an aluminium computer case into one either. If you want a tenuous grasp at logic that's the best I've got.

 

[meganoth]

Yes the realism argument, hence I modded those things you mentioned in the previous alphas and will do again this time around if they keep being silly about it. But the baseball bat being able to be crafted from broken baseball bats is just one step to far where it is no longer gameplay convenience anymore but just plain on ridicule.
Anyway it seems they have a system they want to introduce and cram everything into it for the sake of streamlining, I get that part. Just sometimes you also need some exceptions to keep things believable.

Ok. But you draw the line at baseball bat parts. Someone else at 500 conrete blocks in one solt of your inventory. I talked with friends about this today and a picture formed in my mind: A guy with an 8x8x8 meter block of concrete on his head? Great food for a cartoon

AND if you make baseball bats craftable from the start you also have to reduce the damage it does to that of a club (after all it is just a club with a polished surface. You know because of realism). Will you do that as well and practically play with no tier3 club at all?