PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

I have, and still am enjoying the heck out of this game. I think it's a work of art. You can't, as an artist , keep making the same "successful" art forever, IMHO. I am excited to see what may come next, considering how they have all honed their craft over these years. I'm not going to say there a lot of forum members who are partial to temper tantrums but...oops.

I know right? You would think these guys would be excited to shell out 25 bucks for the next TFP creation instead of whine their 5000 hours was not enough. Its not even done we can add a lot before gold so stop judging.

 

[Trankitas]

Thanks, but what I mean is I want to be able to ship a game in 3-4 years like they can, and I want to be able to have interesting story, memorable NPCs and quest lines like Bethesda and a moddable framework for mod authors to keep the game interesting with new mods for years to come.
As for AAA, I want our game to look and feel close to the quality of a AAA game. That means it runs good on average computers, and visually looks nice and sounds nice, plays nice, all of it. Not "Why does this game look 20 years old and runs like crap?"

That is a great goal to achieve! You are talking like the visionary you really are. (sorry for bad english)

 

[madmole]

I'm curious to know where you got these figures from. From the looks of it a lot of people in this neighborhood would agree that those figures seem absurdly off-base. Are these just estimates based off your own play style, or are you drawing this information from some sort of source?

The steam backend shows how many players fit into "hours buckets". Most players are 2 hours or less. I'm like that. I buy games and don't like them and never play them again.

 

[madmole]

This whole conversation about how many hours the game was designed for is meh..
How much did you pay for the game?

How many hours do you have in playing the game already?

Does it exceed what the game was designed for?

Are the developers still going to support/add to the game after gold?

So what are the complaints again?

They seem to be married to the idea that the game will be "Insert their passionate idea here". We're not targeting anything but the KS list. Always has and will be that way. We've slipped in about 2000 ideas from the community but now that we have to be realistic and go gold they assume the worst and say we're abandoning them. We don't eve know who "them is" lol. Jax's dream game and guppies are two different things. How do we pick?

 

[madmole]

I believe the gold support will be about a half-dozen DLC's, one being the New-York city map for $19.95.
Worth every penny (I hope)

- - - Updated - - -

That doesn't sound like a sustainable business model. Paradox Games charges anywhere from $2 to $20 for each DLC and people keep them in business by paying for them.

We have no planned pay for DLCs yet.

 

[madmole]

Hey Madmole,
With RWG in A17, one of the common generators seemed to generate basically an island map.

Do you think RWG will have that as an option in the future?

Probably.

 

[madmole]

You really don’t get it, you guys had a game with high levels of entertainment with depth, all you had to do was build upon it, but instead you rip it all out and turn the game into another generic zombie game. Good luck selling the game to kids who play fortnite and only want to spend 20 hours on the game. But i do agree, thank god tfp are supporting modding. Sad the direction the gaming industry to going.

I disagree and will die on that hill. A17 is better than 16 in every way. The new perk system allows you to make interesting character builds before you just ground and still bought perks that had very limited role playing or team augmenting use. There was ONE way to play. Now we're adding tons of content thanks to the new system, so I don't see how that is generic. There are no zombie games with perks or attributes are there?

 

[madmole]

But you should not throw all the games in a pot and stir. There are differences between an Open World Sandbox Survival Game and a game with a straight course and hose levels. 20 to 30 hours on average would mean that the average player only plays day 20 to day 30. So 2 to 3 Blood Moon hordes.
The game also has a high replay value, which leads to indirect advertising (for example, through videos on youtube).

I think it is the desire of players for more diversity in their opponents when they ask for different clothing. They probably assume that this is easier to implement than new opponents.

How about adding a few more specific enemies for the biomes? For the snow area, a polar wolf that is harder to spot due to its white fur. Or a crocodile for the forest area. Why can not you be poisoned by the serpent in the desert? For the steppe a hippo and a hyena. Will there ever be an opponent in the water?

Then the biomes would feel even more different, which may increase the average game time.

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

Bear in mind the average player plays 1.5-2 hours, so if we can get that up to 20-30 we're kicking ■■■. People misinterpret what I write so bad lol.

 

[madmole]

If only I had a dollar for everytime Madmole said something and caused much butthurt on this forum...

So many butts, not enough hurt!

 

[madmole]

The sky isn't falling, folks. Just getting closer to the inevitable conclusion of going gold.
That they're adding in so much modding support (golden circle stuff here folks), is proof they're committed to us long timers.

Finally Guppy and I can agree to agree! This is truely an amazing day. Now I'm just waiting for Jax to see the light in what I said.

 

[Cirion]

Are there any modders that are going to be willing to put in the work to add working colonies with in-game hirable NPCs with roles etc?

If so, that'll be enough for me to be happy, dunno about the others =) I really don't care how that content gets in the game (vanilla, or modded). I just want it, period =P

 

[madmole]

I think there is a misconception about what I wrote about the 20-30 hour guys. Fact: Most players quit at 1.5 to 2 hours. We want to polish the game up so that the first 20-30 hours is amazing. Then they can get hooked like most of you guys and maybe they will get 1000's of hours too.

We were told by publishers that we made players crawl over broken glass and they still flocked to our game. What they meant was it was buggy, difficult to learn, slow performance really hard etc. So if we could address that so the first 20-30 hours are amazing, run good, easier to learn, etc etc we'd sell a lot more copies. And it was good advice. Adding power armor/flying dragons etc you can unlock at level 300 doesn't improve the difficult / buggy first 2 hours where most players feel frustrated or not compelled and quit so we'd be better off making the first 20-30 hours really nice so they CAN get hooked and see the beauty and replayability the game has.

Additionally players have said "fix the bugs and performance and get out of EA". Its time for that. Going gold doesn't mean we're finished working on it, it just means its a stable game we can call finished. We can always add more content or dlcs after we go gold, add more optimizations, back port code from new games to the old engine, etc.

At the end of the day it takes money to keep things rolling. If we improve the first 20 to 30 hours of the game we'll have more people say its a great game (2 hour customers are going to review bomb us) and we'll sell more copies and have more revenue for future features. So in a round about way to get what you guys want (late game, more content) this is the correct way to achieve it by finishing the game in a high quality fashion so it sells well and gives us funding to keep updating it. Adding more and more crap to alpha just makes more bugs and keeps us from delivering our KS promises.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Last of us is short but awesome. If you were thrilled the entire 12 hours you'd still be mad? I don't like games like that, I like games that are hobby games too and you can spend 100 to 1000 hours on and put them down, come back a year later and get another 100 or so any time. Most people are game ■■■■s though and want a new game every week.

That game is a hold your hand while I walk you through this story game. That is not anywhere near this type of game.

I’m not going to hate on those types of games or the people who play them... but I think if you are interested in making games like that, then go ahead and make a different game that is like that, but please don’t try to fit 7D2D into that.

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

Is there a way to mod changes to the map like adding a Mine with a maze of twisty passages (they all look alike - Zork) ?

I like the existing mine with the treasure in the game, it would be cool to expand on that- maybe some massive system with trader, etc.

 

[Menace312]

Thanks, but what I mean is I want to be able to ship a game in 3-4 years like they can, and I want to be able to have interesting story, memorable NPCs and quest lines like Bethesda and a moddable framework for mod authors to keep the game interesting with new mods for years to come.
As for AAA, I want our game to look and feel close to the quality of a AAA game. That means it runs good on average computers, and visually looks nice and sounds nice, plays nice, all of it. Not "Why does this game look 20 years old and runs like crap?"

A reasonable goal... Also makes economical sense I guess.

The danger comes, when this type of thinking becomes the driving force...

A few years of very good growth, and then the inevitable crash... But the money's there, so who wouldn't be tempted...

 

[Splitknuckler]

If you leave the game "difficult to learn" then it might entice people to seek out assistance here ;-)

Call me a butt-kisser, fanboy, or whatever you want.... but this community absolutely rocks. I've never seen anyone seeking help/advice dismissed or turned away

 

[Tin]

They seem to be married to the idea that the game will be "Insert their passionate idea here". We're not targeting anything but the KS list. Always has and will be that way. We've slipped in about 2000 ideas from the community but now that we have to be realistic and go gold they assume the worst and say we're abandoning them. We don't eve know who "them is" lol. Jax's dream game and guppies are two different things. How do we pick?

I am pretty happy with TFP EA experience as a whole, even with the rocky bumpy parts, that popped up here and there.

You got my money this go around, and will most likely, get it in the future.

Hopefully, you give us another opportunity when you go about making "game2", in letting use experience the EA development again.

Will be interesting (at least for me), to see how far you all will have advanced with everything.

 

[beerfly]

A reasonable goal... Also makes economical sense I guess.
The danger comes, when this type of thinking becomes the driving force...

A few years of very good growth, and then the inevitable crash... But the money's there, so who wouldn't be tempted...

Money is a result.

 

[madmole]

I think you're probably right. Peoples' attention span are so short nowadays. Not to mention everyone is in debt, probably due to said short attention span and constantly buying $60 games lol
Still, I myself don't buy $60 games for something that will last me 10 hrs. In fact I don't buy $60 games at all period anymore, so maybe I'm just the outlier. The only times I will EVER consider buying a $60 game is if it is literally something I have been waiting for for 10 yrs or something from my all time favorite game series like final fantasy or something, which is RARE. I buy maybe one $60 game every few yrs. I value my money and my early retirement goals so I only spend that kinda money on something I actually plan to play. My brother knows many people who buy $60 games and then don't even play them. They are also often in debt. Well, their loss while I plan to retire in my 40's to very early 50's while just playing the same games I bought a long time ago because I still enjoy them

If I was totally engaged for 20 hours, I'd totally buy a 60 dollar game. The reality is most games lose my interest or cause frustration before 2 hours is up.

Why would you retire unless you hate your job? Start your own business and keep working, or at least have some personal development goals for your retirement. I can retire at will, but I will keep making games as long as I find them interesting to work on. I could quit lifting heavy but I like the progression of it so I keep going. I could stop reading but I like learning and evolving and becoming better.

 

[madmole]

Remember there is a difference between what you don't like....and what is actually broken. If I try to wear a small t-shirt, it's uncomfortable and not enjoyable. It doesn't mean the shirt is broken...it just means I'm fat.

I can barely get into an XL and I'm not fat I'm also 60 pounds over weight but have abs. Don't let anyone tell you what is normal.