PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Sirillion]

A18 should be a sufficient step forward to placate most haters and A19 hopefully will be awesome.

Haters...

It is not hate mr. Mole, it all comes with love even if the wrapping could be better at times.

I sincerely hope that you do not take the feedback you get from us as hate and negativity all the time. It might come off as harsh at times, I agree but again, it is all from the love for the game.

You see, you and your crew are doing something unique, something unheard of, something exceptional...allowing us to be right up here with you (almost) every step of the way.

I for one heart you all for it, but I can also see that it touches something within us, the feeling of “ownership” to what we are a part of and that is what creates the wrapping we deliver the feedback in.

I rarely make claims but I do feel I can claim this. No other game developer have created their game as openly and close to their community as TFP have done with 7 Days and I thank you for it.

 

[Genosis]

will there be a way to clear sleepers from a building forever? we completely demolished the poi's around our horde base for better line of sight, but the sleepers still spawn on the flat ground where the building was.

Claim blocks disable sleeper volumes, so (based on default settings) place 1 within 41 blocks of the destroyed building(s) and they will no longer spawn in zombies.

Beyond that, I don't think there is a 100% way to destroy a sleeper volume. Maybe replacing the entire area with blocks (wood frames, for example) would override the zombie spawn placements within the volume. I would certainly be glad to be corrected by someone who knows the systems more intimately (Fataal or one of the hard core modders).

 

[RipClaw]

speaking of sleepers, i know it's just a jump scare tactic, but i often find myself wondering, how and why would a zombie carefully and precisely open that cabinet, walk in, and shut the door behind itself without getting any blood or scratches on said cabinet? this demonstrates a level of intelligence and dexterity in zombies i am not accustomed to

It's simple. Everyone played hide and seek when the apocalypse struck and then they stayed this way until the player comes along.

 

[madmole]

I didn't like it because it never really was worth it to repair stuff over just making a new one, especially with the mental barrier of it detoriating. It might make more sense logically, but I don't think it translates into good game design.
This also kind of ties to the "Simplification" debate. I think people are jumping the gun. There needs to be stricken a balance between complexity and accessibility. Streamlining some systems isn't a bad thing, it's not the same as dumbing something down. Some old ideas just make the game bloat in one way or another (such as the 0-600 levels being an unnecessary number crunch that just made it harder to plan anything out and surely to balance other aspects of the game related to item tiers).

More complexity just for the sake of it doesn't make the game better.

Exactly, finally someone gets it. Everyone wants to be a game designer, nobody wants to put in the hard ass thinking of actual system design. Its easy to ♥♥♥♥ out ideas, but implementing them in a way that is easy to understand and has some depth, know the entire scope of the design, and have it fit into the existing game mechanics is a lot more challenging.

 

[madmole]

A17 was total crap (except for mod support), so I've no problem waiting as long as it takes if they're truly rewriting systems.
I'd like to see mm play the game more, since he's taken over game design. It'd be nice if he played to day 14 or 21 on every alpha starting from 10, perhaps with others, so he can get a legit feel for what worked and what didn't.

I'd REALLY like it if he had a small accident in the shower where he bumped his head and forgot everything he knew about Skyrim and Fallout. . Nothing serious, just enough so that we can have an original game that didn't try to emulate other /types/ of games who's gameplay and design just doesn't work in 7 days.

Me too, then I could get another 3000 hours of fun all over again. As I mentioned we let someone else take over for A17. I'm back. Relax, all will be good. At least for some players. I recall you complaining about A10-16 too lol.

 

[madmole]

While I don't really mind the repair kit changes in a nutshell, I think the bigger picture you have to see here is that this dumbing down, this simplification is becoming a trend that is affecting the soul, the uniqueness of 7DTD one bit at a time, but at a steady rate over the last iterations. I totally do not agree with the fact that the 1-600 levels was an "unnecessary number crunch" compared to a 1-6 system. Here's why :- the low granularity of the new system doesn't provide enough room for steady and constant progress. As I stated, as soon as I finish the starting quest, I can dump 4 points in Intelligence and all of a sudden I craft every tool/weapon in Q3. Does this make sense ? Does this feel rewarding ? How am I gonna find better tools in the loot if it's that easy to just craft better gear ?

- the low granularity doesn't allow you to have repair degradation (you lost quality with each repair) cost for obvious reasons. This was removed because apparently "it was a chore", all I see is that a justification was to be found for a system that is no longer supported by the new system

- the low granularity doesn't allow you to combine objects to gain a bit of quality. Again, nothing major anyways right ?

- progression is plateau'd very often. You reach Q3 ? Alright, you just know you'll be stuck here for a while because you need to spend the next 10 points in something else. There's a very slim chance you'll find a better tool by looting anyway at this gamestage, so basically you know this won't evolve anytime soon. Before, you'd find tools with +10 or +20 quality compared to what you had, it was a small change but hell, it was something !

What exactly did the new system provide that couldn't be done before ? Mod slots couldn't have been added with a 1-600 system, each slot being unlocked every 100 quality ?

I know quality is being worked on for A18, that each "category" of item will have a different crafting quality depending on its respective perk level etc. Wait and see I guess, but past iterations have shown me that I better not get my hopes up too high regarding how well-thought & well-implemented these ideas might end up being once released.

Where you see "simplifications of the process" I see "overcomplexity in the thinking". Most these things weren't troublesome to begin with, overthinking working stuff to try to make them better instead of focusing your attention on yet-to-be-implemented stuff feels reverse to me. What ain't broken doesn't need fixing, it's what ain't there yet that needs thinking.

Slow and steady progress is garbage. I want meaty gains. 1-6 in range is fine, if each range gave you more damage or protection etc. Until its modded its the same ruins the excitement of getting better gear, because durability and mod potential just feels bland AF.

 

[ZombieHorde]

Hi Madmole. I just wanted to say thanks for coming back to the forum so frequently these days to share these little snippets with us. During A17 production it was very lonely without you.

And regardless of what everyone is saying, or even if I agree or disagree, I also wanted to thank you for the game and all the nearly 1000 hours I've (mostly) enjoyed of it (yeah, I'm a newbie).

Looking forward to supporting TFP's with DLC's and version 2 of the game.

 

[Ti2xGr]

Just a reminder to people who forgot or just jumped on the bandwagon -

Zombies actually function in A17. They don't run around in circles mumbling about how many toothpicks fell on the ground. They come at you. They require more than the ability to aim at a confused jogger with a broken leg now. The experience was a huge upgrade.

The POI's in A17...are stunning. Huge mazes with zombies lurking around every corner. Surprises of secret tunnels under buildings leading to other buildings.

Increased variety in building details, animals, weapons, and vehicles.

There is improvements and tweaks to be done, but we are definitely heading in the right direction. This is not a game designed to be everything to everyone, but with mods, modlets, and upcoming features...it's about as close as you can get. I can't wait for A18 and what it will bring.

I will respectfully make suggestions as I think of them, but recognize that they are only suggestions and the developers are the ones putting in the real work and it is their vision, not mine.

...just rambling.

 

[Thecolours]

How so? In 17.0 everyone was crying how hard the game is, what has changed?

Because the new A.I pathing system has made zombies on horde nights to predictable. You can cheese the A.I. to easily. There are 2 basic horde night setups for A17.
1. A tall ramp of death.

2. Some kind of maze system.

The zombies dont try to break through walls anymore if they can "see" a way to you.

Horde nights should have zombies attack from all sides at once, and were they dont follow a single path like sheep.

 

[hristian991]

Dying light does something like that and it sucks. You have X number of repairs based on the quality of the item, then you have to either scrap it or do a mission to reset the repair number. You end up with piles of "broken, but too good to be scrapped" items cluttering your inventory waiting to be repaired.
How about this:

What exactly was wrong with the way we had it in A16?

Repair the item in your backpack and it damages the item quality a little.

Or

Combine items in the workbench to fix/avoid the quality damage, but it is more resource intensive because it uses a whole item instead of just a few bars of iron/steel.

That already did exactly what you are trying to do.

It makes the workbench special again instead of just being a extra crafting queue.

Combine items directly and you can skip the step of scrapping for parts and then using the parts to repair.

And there is no need to invent a whole new class of "parts" for each item to repair it with, less stuff cluttering up my chests.

It was already balanced and working just fine.

You sure are making things more complicated in the name of simplicity.

Seriously, why did you change it in the first place?

i totally agree with this guy i would love to see gun disassemble again "the old a16"

 

[Hek Harris]

Exactly, finally someone gets it.

Don't worry. A lot of people get it. We just don't write it. Maybe we should.

 

[Guppycur]

We'll just make it super dark and blurry all the time and hide the cheese voxel graphics.

Hehe proof you watch got.

Even cnn did an article on the darkness.

 

[Gnomaana]

Hehe proof you watch got.
Even cnn did an article on the darkness.

I had no problems seeing it. Of course, my 15 year old flat screen has never even heard of "True Black" as a setting.

 

[Guppycur]

Me too, then I could get another 3000 hours of fun all over again. As I mentioned we let someone else take over for A17. I'm back. Relax, all will be good. At least for some players. I recall you complaining about A10-16 too lol.

My complaining began when y'all started the simplification process for the console port, but I've always maintained this is still by FAR the best game out there, but it's definitely been going downhill since y'all started the rpg elements... they just don't work.

I truly hope that improves because y'all are a good shop and deserve kudos for what you have accomplished.

Fortunately y'all were so far ahead there's still some wiggle room before becoming another generic boring game, and since modding capabilities have improved I've moved onto greater things.

Unfortunately modding has also backslid in some areas so SOME things we could do in a16 are simply unattainable in a17. I'm optimistic that will change though.

I definitely won't be doing an early access game again though; I'm just not built for it. .

 

[Guppycur]

I had no problems seeing it. Of course, my 15 year old flat screen has never even heard of "True Black" as a setting.

I think alot had to do with bandwidth issues when streaming it. . I'm on giga fiber and use a plasma tv for good blacks but the show definitely came in pixelated and did that weird thing black does when bandwidth is low so I suspect their servers were slammed.

 

[The Gaffer]

How so? In 17.0 everyone was crying how hard the game is, what has changed?

You just have to much control on where and how the zombies attack. It reminds me now of one of those defence games where the enemy will just pile in one way and you can just pick them off. I just stand on a platform and have another platform in front of me that they run up and you just shoot the hell out of them and any that fall off just run back around and you do the same again. I just wish they attack more random and not some path that they will follow. Something just does not seem right with the pathing system to me. Having the zombie try and get to you and not attack what you are standing on makes it easy. Example type on youtube Shock Box Horde Base- Gain Exp and you will see what i am talking about

 

[Damocles]

Random is the new smarter...

 

[The Gaffer]

Because the new A.I pathing system has made zombies on horde nights to predictable. You can cheese the A.I. to easily. There are 2 basic horde night setups for A17.
1. A tall ramp of death.

2. Some kind of maze system.

The zombies dont try to break through walls anymore if they can "see" a way to you.

Horde nights should have zombies attack from all sides at once, and were they dont follow a single path like sheep.

Yes yes yes horde nights have never been so easy. I can make a ramp and they just run up it and fall off and while they are doing that you are shooting them to bits and gaining loads of EP.

 

[Roland]

Because the new A.I pathing system has made zombies on horde nights to predictable. You can cheese the A.I. to easily. There are 2 basic horde night setups for A17.
1. A tall ramp of death.

2. Some kind of maze system.

The zombies dont try to break through walls anymore if they can "see" a way to you.

Horde nights should have zombies attack from all sides at once, and were they dont follow a single path like sheep.

Sorry but that is bs. I don't use either of those methods and my base is just fine. I pretty much build as I always built. I suggest you try other methods besides the two you mentioned. Just because there are two methods that cheese the AI, it doesn't mean they are the only two methods. There were actually very few base designs that I a saw pre-Alpha 17. Stilt bases and column 50 bases pretty much over and over and over and over again. Also, I am seeing zombies attack my base at multiple points. I hope that you like others seem to be doing are actually referencing A17.2 and not just your memory of A17.0....

 

[The Gaffer]

Sorry but that is bs. I don't use either of those methods and my base is just fine. I pretty much build as I always built. I suggest you try other methods besides the two you mentioned. Just because there are two methods that cheese the AI, it doesn't mean they are the only two methods. There were actually very few base designs that I a saw pre-Alpha 17. Stilt bases and column 50 bases pretty much over and over and over and over again. Also, I am seeing zombies attack my base at multiple points. I hope that you like others seem to be doing are actually referencing A17.2 and not just your memory of A17.0....

You just set up a path for them to take and like he says like sheep they will just pile in that way. I can set something up very early on and it will never get destroyed no matter what horde comes at it