PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[JaxTeller718]

I agree, it is already stupidly simple, if they "simplify" much more I might as well go play minecraft.
Your player base is already locked in, most of us are adults who want a game with at least some complexity, stop trying to chase down the 12 year olds playing fortnight, it is not going to happen.

I wouldnt even assume the player base is locked in. Yes we have purchased copies and we will own it forever. Thant "lock" is there but i think it is foolish for devs to assume the player base is going to accept all the changes that come their way. If anything the bleed has been a slow and steady one. Theres been numerous gates, some silly and some warranted. All the way back to "magic blocks" being added (remember THAT one) to HP bars on trees and rocks. All were argued over.

This seems to be a bit different though. You do have a core group of people who will stick around through any change, but then there are the ones who start to feel the sum of all these changes. For every repair kit, every schematic and every texture that gets removed it adds up. Until its hard NOT to notice just how different it is. For some thats welcome, simplification for casuals. For others, the ones who bought into a game design that was complex and slower we just stop caring. By no means did any of us sign a contract to keep supporting just by buying. Look at the latest trend of games to simplify and you will see that over time it actually LOSES the audience it had, and does not attract the new ones it hopes to.

Maybe Im just growing older. Maybe I have outgrown this game. Id like to think not because MOST of my mod players are more mature age wise, 35 plus etc. That tells me theres an audience for complexity. Im still wondering what all this "end game" talk is. It was stated to us that the focus on 20 hour plus players was to introduce the player to a world that awaits. Yet all I hear is this and that removed, those simplified, we dont need this. Its all starting to feel like discussing the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Does this world even exist?

 

[Grue]

7 Days To Get Eaten By A Grue

Grue the Wanderer? Now that would be messy...

hey faatal what about that bug, when you crouch in 1 block ground, you can see thought terrain? its game breaking for pvp. is it fixed for a17.3?

I wouldnt even assume the player base is locked in. Yes we have purchased copies and we will own it forever. Thant "lock" is there but i think it is foolish for devs to assume the player base is going to accept all the changes that come their way. If anything the bleed has been a slow and steady one. Theres been numerous gates, some silly and some warranted. All the way back to "magic blocks" being added (remember THAT one) to HP bars on trees and rocks. All were argued over.
This seems to be a bit different though. You do have a core group of people who will stick around through any change, but then there are the ones who start to feel the sum of all these changes. For every repair kit, every schematic and every texture that gets removed it adds up. Until its hard NOT to notice just how different it is. For some thats welcome, simplification for casuals. For others, the ones who bought into a game design that was complex and slower we just stop caring. By no means did any of us sign a contract to keep supporting just by buying. Look at the latest trend of games to simplify and you will see that over time it actually LOSES the audience it had, and does not attract the new ones it hopes to.

Maybe Im just growing older. Maybe I have outgrown this game. Id like to think not because MOST of my mod players are more mature age wise, 35 plus etc. That tells me theres an audience for complexity. Im still wondering what all this "end game" talk is. It was stated to us that the focus on 20 hour plus players was to introduce the player to a world that awaits. Yet all I hear is this and that removed, those simplified, we dont need this. Its all starting to feel like discussing the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Does this world even exist?

Speaking of Mods, if you look at the most popular mods 90% of them are designed to add complexity.

If so many people want complexity bad enough they will essentially develop the game for free by modding it, that should be a pretty good indicator to tell the devs what people are looking for in the game.

 

[Guppycur]

Unfortunately modders represent a very small portion of the game.

 

[Xenophobed44]

I wouldnt even assume the player base is locked in. Yes we have purchased copies and we will own it forever. Thant "lock" is there but i think it is foolish for devs to assume the player base is going to accept all the changes that come their way. If anything the bleed has been a slow and steady one. Theres been numerous gates, some silly and some warranted. All the way back to "magic blocks" being added (remember THAT one) to HP bars on trees and rocks. All were argued over.
This seems to be a bit different though. You do have a core group of people who will stick around through any change, but then there are the ones who start to feel the sum of all these changes. For every repair kit, every schematic and every texture that gets removed it adds up. Until its hard NOT to notice just how different it is. For some thats welcome, simplification for casuals. For others, the ones who bought into a game design that was complex and slower we just stop caring. By no means did any of us sign a contract to keep supporting just by buying. Look at the latest trend of games to simplify and you will see that over time it actually LOSES the audience it had, and does not attract the new ones it hopes to.

Maybe Im just growing older. Maybe I have outgrown this game. Id like to think not because MOST of my mod players are more mature age wise, 35 plus etc. That tells me theres an audience for complexity. Im still wondering what all this "end game" talk is. It was stated to us that the focus on 20 hour plus players was to introduce the player to a world that awaits. Yet all I hear is this and that removed, those simplified, we dont need this. Its all starting to feel like discussing the wonderful Wizard of Oz. Does this world even exist?

Let me solve this for you mate at the risk of being banned. The Fun Pimps want to finish their game. That is priority number one. Quickly followed by garnishing new interest to the majority which is the casual gamer it seems. Though in honesty if I wanted to play a casual voxel game I'd go play Minecraft. I really hope these simplifications and gutted features doesn't amount to a lackluster game... But hey. Theres always that 7 Days To Die 2 they keep referencing now n then. Perhaps that's what we are really looking for. Perhaps they just need more time to develop a game proper so they're just forcing out 7DtD 1 to tide us over. Who knows at this point?

 

[The Gronk]

<snipped for space>

Banned? Trust me, you have to try far harder than that to get banned around here.

Between me, Guppy and Jax there have been far harsher things posted about TFP on the forum without recrimination

 

[beerfly]

Let me solve this for you mate at the risk of being banned. The Fun Pimps want to finish their game. That is priority number one. Quickly followed by garnishing new interest to the majority which is the casual gamer it seems. Though in honesty if I wanted to play a casual voxel game I'd go play Minecraft. I really hope these simplifications and gutted features doesn't amount to a lackluster game... But hey. Theres always that 7 Days To Die 2 they keep referencing now n then. Perhaps that's what we are really looking for. Perhaps they just need more time to develop a game proper so they're just forcing out 7DtD 1 to tide us over. Who knows at this point?

Not gonna be banned, but will be proven to be wrong

 

[TSBX]

What is really needed is a small (read tiny ) tutorial world with a unique trader that walks players through basic game mechanics that will spell out things, while the journal can be used as a reference or a reminder in case one forgets.

 

[KhaineGB]

What is really needed is a small (read tiny ) tutorial world with a unique trader that walks players through basic game mechanics that will spell out things, while the journal can be used as a reference or a reminder in case one forgets.

The playtest world has that.

That'd be great for a new player to get to grips with the game.

 

[TSBX]

The playtest world has that.
That'd be great for a new player to get to grips with the game.

Nah let's just change everything so the local middle school can understand instead.

 

[FA_Q2]

It's as though what people really want are deeper and more complex mechanics.
"Who'd 'a thunk it?"

- Bill Hicks

It would be - if that were what putting out an idea that achieves the opposite of what the devs stated but that is not what it does. I actually agree with the general sentiment - I do not change any behavior at all because of repair kits meaning that they have no impact - not that they are having a negative one. JaxTeller put up a very good and solid argument for repair kits. That is how you constructively and effectively change minds.



- - - Updated - - -

is it a BUG when you go into a POI that has been reset for a quest and the zombies are stacked? you kill one (headshot sneak) and another one is in same spot? not the same usually a diff zombie. I have seen 3 stacked on same space.

Seen this one before several times. It is not uncommon for 2 zeds to spawn on the same exact spot. Happens with wandering hordes sometimes too.

What is really interesting is when you get an entire POI that spawns on another. It replaces the old POI BUT nit the graphics so the old POI looks like it is inside the new one. If cannot be destroyed either. This one is pretty rare though - only happened twice to me and the last time I wanted to report it and my pics did not save

 

[beerfly]

Nah let's just change everything so the local middle school can understand instead.

The times we had no wiki or reference to know what and how to play were more than good.

 

[The Gronk]

It would be - if that were what putting out an idea that achieves the opposite of what the devs stated but that is not what it does. I actually agree with the general sentiment - I do not change any behavior at all because of repair kits meaning that they have no impact - not that they are having a negative one. JaxTeller put up a very good and solid argument for repair kits. That is how you constructively and effectively change minds.

I sincerely doubt you'll be changing anyone's mind any time soon. MadMole has been claiming they're going to go Gold at the next release for about three or four alpha's now. Notice that word "alpha", there's usually another period between alpha and gold which is when balancing and bugfixing get done properly. I fear we may miss that step altogether and have an unbalanced, bug-ridden, and rushed gold release.

Leading members of TFP appear to want this project completed and seem willing to cut almost anything and everything to get it done. Understandable but a shame nonetheless.

 

[beerfly]

<dots>

Its not how it works since they gave so much for this game to exist.

We are obviously at the era of balancing and since we got years of having fun and giving advices, we got spoiled, did we ? Let them finish what they started.

 

[TSBX]

The devs should watch more GoT.

EDIT: MM are you SURE art doesn't need more focus?

 

[suicidalhamster]

Perhaps, but it would certainly add to the horror aspect of the game. It also also adds interesting gameplay decisions. Do you use the powerful SMG, or the pistol that you know for certain won't fail you at the worst possible time?

i am all-in for interesting gameplay but i'm still not convinced it adds a horror element.

as it was originally suggested, i think its redundant because i would simply always keep my weapons at +50% durability to avoid the misfire feature from kicking in. it would be a chore and not add interesting or challenging gameplay at all.

i would look for value-added instead of value-reduced strategies to make the game more interesting. you get more bang for your buck.

 

[The Gronk]

Its not how it works since they gave so much for this game to exist. We are obviously at the era of balancing and since we got years of having fun and giving advices, we got spoiled, did we ? Let them finish what they started.

Systems and mechanics are still being ripped out and/or done from scratch. Many of the current systems are bare-bones or placeholders that, by MadMole's own admission, are to be improved or replaced. That's not balancing, that's construction.

I really hope they will actually take the time to finish the game properly instead of rushing it. I'd rather have it right than rushed, as I'm fond of saying.

I'd absolutely love to be wrong on this. Hell, I don't care if they take more time _just_ to prove me wrong.

 

[Damocles]

After mulling over the last few days conversation, here is what ran through my head:
Instead of investing a bunch of man hours removing things that work fine in the game (repair kits) invest that time in that deep additional crafting, vehicle mods and the like you don't have time for.

You want to kick the game out asap, but are strip mining and replacing systems that work fine and it is just bogging you guys down.. keep your eyes on the prize.

You mention crafting repair kits is too hard, but then turn around and want to make more complex crafting items. If new players aren't sticking around for the easy stuff, they won't stick around for the harder stuff later.

Also when talking about difficult crafting, consider a "kid's game" like minecraft.. and those ungodly complex redstone machines people have been making for years now. If a new player can't make a repair kit in 7 days, theres a problem with how the information is given them, not the process.

As someone else suggested, invest time in the journal and popup tutorial tool tips and the like. People shouldn't have to google something, watch a youtube video, or search in forums to figure it out.

Example: Two friends of ours are regular 7 days players, with more than 1000 hours under their belts. They however do NOT frequent the forums or watch youtube playthrough or tutorial videos.

Day 50 of a17, and they STILL don't understand the new clothing system, what hampers stamina, or the impact of mods vs quality because it really isn't even explained anywhere at all. They don't understand how putting a jacket on can cool them off because it doesn't make any sense at all.

They don't know what all mods are even available, or how to find out what those mods do to help them survive better.

Build that information into the trader quest system, since its already in place. Have the trader give them the instructions like how to make a repair kit, or give you a list of what mods are out there and what they do, but don't bury it in a "new journal entry". Pop the tutorial open, and stick it in their faces so to can either read the info or dismiss it. (Or turn it off in the settings, and have it default to on.)

By the time they realized there was a bunch of stuff in the journal, there were SO many new unread items they just closed the journal because it was overwhelming.

Other games get it right.. they have popup tutorials for every new game mechanic, they don't just bury the info somewhere and hope they can find it. The game mechanics like the repair kit are just fine. Whats missing is teaching players how to use them.

Another good example is the perks menu. They constantly ask why they can't unlock something, and they have to told to mouse over something else to see what they need to do. That info should be server up to them in a popup, like "You can't unlock this until you have x points in this ability" They should have to hunt for it, or ask where the information is.

If seasoned players can't figure some of these things out without asking or an internet searches , new players don't stand a chance...and it doesn't matter how complex or easy a recipe is.. without a robust tutorial system in place, they just won't get the information they need.

You know how I would make this more visible: having a text pop up shortly that shows the stat changes any time you change equipment that alters stats.

It would quickly give a feedback to the player of what impact that item has (especially clothing) or the consumable (like food).

 

[Gazz]

New recipe: 10 iron + 10 wood will cure the zombie disease.

Sorry, it's 100 iron. Probably a typo?

<recipe name="meleeClubIron" count="1">

<ingredient name="resourceScrapIron" count="100"/>

<ingredient name="resourceWood" count="10"/>

</recipe>

 

[Weazelsun]

Systems and mechanics are still being ripped out and/or done from scratch. Many of the current systems are bare-bones or placeholders that, by MadMole's own admission, are to be improved or replaced. That's not balancing, that's construction.
I really hope they will actually take the time to finish the game properly instead of rushing it. I'd rather have it right than rushed, as I'm fond of saying.

I'd absolutely love to be wrong on this. Hell, I don't care if they take more time _just_ to prove me wrong.

I hope they do. The way I see is it, is that it does seem almost everything has always been a placeholder. But, at least now some of those are starting to looking somewhat refined. Like the current skill system, sure it has been done by scratch, and in A18 will be redone again. Hopefully, for the last time. Does make me wonder why it has taken till this time, to have the game start looking more like what the developers envisioned though.

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

Has anyone else done a POI Quest (big exclamation mark at POI) BUT before doing it you clear it, kill the zombies and loot the chest. sometimes leaving items in the containers.

then you accept the quest and the POI RESETs but you still find dead zombies (usually the dogs) and also the old loot in the containers that you left? this seems to mess up the POI loot and zombies. I have had this a few times, mostly the house with the detached garage where you have to follow the torches through the roof.