PC Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Weazelsun]

Makes no sense to call it an escort mission. Making a delivery quest is simple, clean and makes sense.
As far as followers, I am fairly certain that the devs have directly stated this is not going to happen. This has been bandied about for a while and outright rejected because the massive pathing issues that would cause in an environment that the player can alter so completely.

Indeed, and that's why I mention if AI was worked on it could be called a proper escort quest and not simply another variation of a fetch quest as is in-game already. Though I do wonder, maybe instead they could somehow implement the zombie AI to an NPC and set it to be friendly. @faatal The NPC would also have to invulnerable like the current NPC trader so one doesn't automatically fail it if the zombies attack. So, what I'm thinking IF an escort quest were to somehow be implemented. It'd be like this:

1) Go to the trader for the quest.

2) Head to the quest location

3) Find the NPC that would be in some sort of safe room with no zombies around.

4) Interact with them and have them follow you out of the room and have more dialogue telling them where to go. NPC will then magically disappear to simulate that they've gone to the safety of the tracer compound.

5) Return back to the trader and turn in-quest.

 

[madmole]

What I described was just a shorthand for the feature. If a zombie is sneaking up behind you, and you don't see it, I wasn't suggesting that you have to suddenly turn around and hit it. If it were really to be implemented, it would be "the opponent is within X range, and you are definitely targeting it."
Obviously it would take a lot of tweaking to figure out what "definitely targeting it" means in game. Another reason I don't really think it will ever be implemented, probably not even as a mod.

EDIT: And I don't like the click-LMB-and-hold idea you put forth, pretty much exactly for the reason you described. I'd rather just keep things as is.

Its easy to dream up ideas, a lot harder to fit them into a project and bring them to reality.

 

[beerfly]

it's a no win scenario (regardless what some will say) (i laugh when i see this exact behavior on other game forums)

Its no win, but we all will have fun with both releases, for sure.

I call this progress )

 

[madmole]

So looking forward to a18, this has been my favorite game for years. My first experience was logging into a MP server, finding myself in a dark world with a red sky, wondering what to do. Then I died. I respawned, wondered what happened, and died again... I went back to play civilization instead.

Tried the next day, this time starting my own mp game and everything went well.

Couldn't stop since then. I've met so many people in this game, around the globe some of them are good friends of mine now. Just wanted to express my sincere thanks, I love you and your magnificent beard. Erm. Work I mean.

There is one thing I have always dreamt about: having a sort of UV light that slows down zombies at night. That would be great for base defenses. Perhaps make them overheat easily or use some other means to make them unreliable, creating a shock moment when they cut out.

I love Oh Crap moments, like when zombies break through a wall and are on top of you. Love the digging for that. Testing a17 mechanics, I went through several build ideas, one of them a mazed cave where I could shoot them from above. Nearly soiled myself when the ceiling opened up and zombies poured in.

I'm not sure why zombies are faster at night, I'm just assuming it has to do with sunlight a way to slow down zombies at night in some way, unreliable or hard to maintain, like you have to refuel it every hour, so it doesn't make things to easy. In a mp game it could be a delegated task, with one player operating the thing, requiring special protection from others so he doesn't die, a small invitation to roleplay.

Not a fully worked out idea I know but I'd like to know what you think of the general principle

We've talked about something like that. Maybe we can do something like that down the road.

 

[Cazmyr]

I have been wondering about something:

It has been said that the goal is to NOT create death cycles. In A16 when you died the zombies in the area would de-spawn. So when you went back to your bag it was relatively clear.

With the new dungeon POIs (which I love) and the new AO I have experienced, more than once, some scenarios that are decidedly death cycle invoking.

You enter a house and fall through the floor into the basement.

Every Zombie in the place wakes up (which is understandable)

You can't get out of the basement so you die. (again, understandable)

You spawn in and go to retrieve your bag, which is in a basement of a house with all those zombies just waiting to gank you again.

I think this would be pretty disheartening to a new player and would feel impossible to get their bag back. It felt that way to me and I am not a new player by any means. I think if the focus is on the new player experience ( which I am totally on board with), then this should be looked at.

This, of course, is all just my 2 cents and has an implied IMHO. Thank you for your time and efforts,

Caz

 

[Roland]

Personally I love those tough backpack recovery quests when they occur. To fix it for noobs I would say add in the option of “drop nothing” and make that default. I’m happy to switch over to “drop everything” so I can still have those situations come up in my game.

 

[madmole]

So I assume higher perk-levels will cost more points. Will perk-points per level-up also increase at specific levels?

No. Get what you need early game when you are leveling rapidly.

 

[madmole]

The only issue I have with all the new 20 hour players chatter, is SO much of the game isn't even seen at 20 hours in.. electricity, higher level vehicles and the like.
Maybe a non repair flag could be added for found vehicles? So on day 1 you are lucky enough to hind a motorcycle or gyro that works, but when it breaks it can only be scrapped or abandoned?

That would give new players a great preview of whats to come, but not long enough to break progression.

Guppy has something similar with being able to find working vehicles, but I don't know if his can be repaired or if they just wear out and break down.

Rust has vehicles spawn randomly but I think that takes away the feeling of accomplishment crafting your own.

 

[madmole]

Hey all!
I hate to be that guy, but I was wondering how close we are to A18. Are TFP still on track for the first half of the year or sooner? I haven’t played since A16, I wanted to give the game a whirl again but I don’t want to start and then have to restart if A18 releases soon.

I know release dates aren’t given anymore, but I’m just looking for the overall temperature in the room.

Thanks!

-Ghost

There is plenty of time to play an A17 game right now.

 

[madmole]

There is so much potential to future "Quest" aspect of the game.
"The Bandit Boss out at (location) is causing trouble. Git out there and see that he stops breathing". (kill specific Mob at location)

"One of our Couriers got himself busted up pretty bad at (location). Go out there and fetch the package. Bring the Courier back too as a bonus. Put him down if he has turned".

"One of our Radio transmitters has stopped working. Go to (location) clear out any hostiles and place (Quest item) at Quest marker."

Just ideas to expand upon the current "Fetch and or Clear" we currently have.

Yes we are planning stuff like this.

 

[madmole]

There are only ever about seven different missions you can do... ever. The three examples of quests you gave other than "fetch and clear" are just variations of fetch and/or clear with a different backstory. The obvious exception being the escort mission and they're problematic unless you have really good NPC AI.
Right idea, bad example

I can think of a lot more 7 and when combined would make a lot of different variations.

Fetch

Exterminate

Escort

Deliver

Repair

Protect

Build

Destroy

Research

Find

Craft

Convince

Heal

Steal

Disable

Enable

Sell

Buy

 

[madmole]

I just now had an idea for a new quest type.
Right now each trader spawns with all the "crafting helpers" (forge, workbench, cement mixer, chem station) but with some chance of them being destroyed.

So, I propose "fixer upper" quests. Let's say the trader's workbench is broken. The trader gives the player a quest to gather or loot all the items one would need in order to build the workbench, even if the player is not at a level to make one themselves.

The quest reward would be the fact that the workbench at the trader is functional and usable.

If TFP wanted to be consistent, they could have all of the "crafting helpers" be destroyed initially, and only able to be repaired using these quests.

I think TFP would have to implement this themselves, because I don't think it is possible to "repair" a trader's workbench through modding. But perhaps there is a way that I don't know about.

The problem is some other player on the same server would have access to the repaired workstations and not be able to do those same quests. To break them so some other guy can do the quest again doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[BadabingbadaBOOMSDAY!]

Is the 17.3 FAQ for what's been changed added/fixed/ removed at least coming soon?

 

[rngchiefbob]

The problem is some other player on the same server would have access to the repaired workstations and not be able to do those same quests. To break them so some other guy can do the quest again doesn't make a lot of sense.

Cant you just do a unique id, so the person who did the quest can use it but the person who has not cant? therefor a quest giving a "perk" of using the workstation, could do that with other things as well

 

[Aldranon]

The problem is some other player on the same server would have access to the repaired workstations and not be able to do those same quests. To break them so some other guy can do the quest again doesn't make a lot of sense.

Maybe have a: "if no station broken then next quest" kind of logic. Also have that quest for mid level players so building the trader stations up doesn't become the only stations the player(s) use, but more a nice to have thing.

 

[Gnomaana]

Indeed, and that's why I mention if AI was worked on it could be called a proper escort quest and not simply another variation of a fetch quest as is in-game already. Though I do wonder, maybe instead they could somehow implement the zombie AI to an NPC and set it to be friendly. @faatal The NPC would also have to invulnerable like the current NPC trader so one doesn't automatically fail it if the zombies attack. So, what I'm thinking IF an escort quest were to somehow be implemented. It'd be like this:

1) Go to the trader for the quest.

2) Head to the quest location

3) Find the NPC that would be in some sort of safe room with no zombies around.

4) Interact with them and have them follow you out of the room and have more dialogue telling them where to go. NPC will then magically disappear to simulate that they've gone to the safety of the tracer compound.

5) Return back to the trader and turn in-quest.

Why make them invulnerable? Wouldn't the whole point of paying you to escort them be that they need protection?

 

[Can'tadian]

The problem is some other player on the same server would have access to the repaired workstations and not be able to do those same quests. To break them so some other guy can do the quest again doesn't make a lot of sense.

@MADMOLE

Would be an interesting idea if, after the quest is completed, you would be able to access the "forge hud" directly through the trader rather then altering the actual model at the poi and "pay" him for its use, (this way it's character dependant and everyone can do the quests) and this could work for chem stations too and cooking! (although i'm not sure how it'd work for workbenches)

So if you had some extra coin but you didn't have... lets say.. calipers, you would put all resources you wanted into the forge as per usual, but instead of using wood for fuel you would use casino tokens! (maybe the benefit of this is that everything smelts and forges faster)

Essentially this would be like renting his professional forge services.

just brainstorming! i know you guys are busy with more important stuff

 

[madmole]

Lol please no escort quests. In every single open world RPG I have played they have sucked. The NPC is always slow, gets stuck or gets killed by friendly fire. Having to walk or even jog 1km+ with a NPC is just a nightmare. Speaking of friendly fire it would suck if the NPC you ate rescuing accidentally kills you while they defend themselves lol.

Yes this is why I said no to followers, if AAA companies have a hard time pulling it off with static worlds, imagine how hard it would be to look convincing and be bug free in a fully destroyable game.

 

[Weazelsun]

Why make them invulnerable? Wouldn't the whole point of paying you to escort them be that they need protection?

To ensure that the quest NPC doesn't magically die while you're clearing out the POI. Imagine, you do an escort quest and get there. but then immediately get quest failed because zombies somehow manage to breach the safe room and kill the NPC before you even have a chance to reach that room. Again, the way I would implement it is that the IF an escort quest were to be done, you'd clear out the POI of zombies and head to the NPC safe room. Then they would FOLLOW you to the ENTRANCEWAY OF THE POI or simply out of the SAFE ROOM. Upon then you could interact with said NPC and tell him where to go from there and how to stay safe while doing so. Then YOU (player character), return back to the trader to turn in the quest.

Of course, the NPC doesn't have to be invulnerable but it just gives a whole lot of complications, especially if playing on an MP server.

Especially, with how RWG is right now. Some players would get the bad luck of having to escort an NPC 4 km to the nearest trader, and I don't think players would like that. Plus, that not all the roads are flat and smooth. And then if using a vehicle that justs add even more complications. Would the NPC be able to get into a vehicle? Would they simply follow the player and do it like Skyrim, where they'll force teleport to you?

Of course, my original thought was to make it a convoluted deliver quest. Where instead you would be sent to a POI, find the NPC. Interact with it to put them in your inventory then return to the trader. Now as I said multiple times already if the AI is worked on to solve all those issues then yes, it could then become an actual proper escort quest.

 

[madmole]

To be honest I hope when bandits are put in there is a option to shut them off in the modded options section. I've played mods with bandits, they are not fun when you drop all your loot. Especally with how things tend to spawn in the middle of no where in an area that you already cleared... Speaking of... Is that getting fixed at all? I mean if I don't see any zombies after going around in a 360 from my position one just shouldn't suddendly be hitting me in the back when there was Just not nothing there a second ago. Most of my deaths are usually due to this happening, they spawn behind me early game, I get stuned then dead even though I just cleared it out and there shouldn't have been anything nearby. A lot of the problems with bandits with mods, is the bandits weapons raycast, so once they aim at you and pull the trigger you have 0 chance to dodge.
The spawn mechanism in 7dtd have always bugged me, stuff spawning out of thin air, in a cleared space, same spawns in every poi, same zombies in every poi as once your past a certan gamestage, all you get is rad ferals (it should be like loot imo a chance for those to spawn but never guarnteed). I'd also like to see randomized poi spawns, for the small/medium ones, where there is a chance for nothing to spawn or a random number from 0 to whatever the limit is for that poi. Big ones like a hospital or a gun factory should have a randomized number as well, maybe starting from the current amount they can have halfed, to the max they can have.

Lastly i'd like a "drop nothing on death" setting added to what you drop on death, I feel the debuff is enough of a penalty atm, and body runs suck no one likes them.

I've never seen this bug. Until someone can submit a video showing this, its not going to get fixed. I say people are not looking behind couches, in the corner behind a cupboard, at the ceiling to see if there is a hole there, or even behind them to see if someone followed them in. Someone please show a video of this.

I do know that zombies will now return to their original sleeping spot. I'm not sure this is an improvement but those people who leave who think they cleared a room might not be confused now. Before they would sleep in any random spot after the player leaves so this confused some people thinking they cleared an area.