PC Alpha 18.2 one step forward two steps back

SURVIVE

SURVIVE

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Well I at first I was enjoying alpha 18's new graphics and lack of lag, my group and I began to notice all the unrealistic new aspects. For instance, I now need to read a book to build something that was previously common sense in a realistic situation. I understand your attempting to make the game longer, and this seems like a step in some aspects in the right direction, but I dont need a book to tell me how to duck tape a flash light to a helmet. Everything is basically locked now and some you have to find multipile books to get. World of warcraft did the same thing. Altering ♥♥♥♥ till its unrecognizable. 15 million to a couple million speaks volumes.

Summary: take a look at your current build and see what makes you say "people dont need a book to know this"

 
I'm a college graduate and teacher for 8 years and I'd be hard pressed to make a functional STONE shovel, or a wood-and-plant-fiber bow with any notable power without a book telling me how to. I know the concepts of a forge, but actually building one would either take me a TON of tries...or detailed directions...like you might find in a book.

But since you declined to bother to even say what recipe/item you were talking about, I can only conclude that you feel like whining about the game in a way that you deliberately made difficult to address, to either artificially give your point added weight (if anyone can figure out what the specific complaint IS) or to allow you to act superior as you shoot down any attempted counterargument.

 
But since you declined to bother to even say what recipe/item you were talking about
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Wut?

but I dont need a book to tell me how to duck tape a flash light to a helmet.
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I can only conclude that you feel like whining about the game in a way that you deliberately made difficult to address, to either artificially give your point added weight (if anyone can figure out what the specific complaint IS) or to allow you to act superior as you shoot down any attempted counterargument.
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Or maybe you could, you know, slow down your white knighting and read what he wrote perhaps?

 
Wow! Anyone who has played the game is well aware of the issues, basic cooking is one example. Yes more complicated things need books, everyday basic skills do not and thats the same whether or not you are a teacher with a bad attitude!

I got his point immediately,you obviously not, not a reason for the given rant in response.

 
Wow! Anyone who has played the game is well aware of the issues, basic cooking is one example.
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How is that an example?

I know at least 2 people who can't even boil an egg properly and I had to rush one of these people to hospital after attempting to make a tea.

I know one who firmly believes a pack of chips and a chocolate tablet is called a dinner.

I'm not even trying to exaggerate here, people like these exist and since game is placed in amerika, probability to be one of them grows exponentially.

Don't underestimate humanity ability to be John Snow.

 
Well I at first I was enjoying alpha 18's new graphics and lack of lag, my group and I began to notice all the unrealistic new aspects. For instance, I now need to read a book to build something that was previously common sense in a realistic situation. I understand your attempting to make the game longer, and this seems like a step in some aspects in the right direction, but I dont need a book to tell me how to duck tape a flash light to a helmet. Everything is basically locked now and some you have to find multipile books to get. World of warcraft did the same thing. Altering ♥♥♥♥ till its unrecognizable. 15 million to a couple million speaks volumes.
Summary: take a look at your current build and see what makes you say "people dont need a book to know this"
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While I agree with you that taping a torch to a helmet seems like something anyone could do without an instruction manual, I disagree with you that it matters.

This being a game (about zombies no less), realism is a more or less foreign concept in and of itself. What matters is thematic consistency, that is, does the game mechanic (whatever one we choose to look at) make sense within the wider game systems, and on this count the "helmet light mod" makes sense, giving all other mods require some method of "learning".

Is it realistic? No, and that makes it different to the forge schematic say, since most people (myself included) couldn't possibly build one (that works) without reading up on how to do it, but that difference just doesn't matter. It's a gameplay mechanic, and the crucial point there is "game", since 7Days isn't a simulation.

 
While I agree with you that taping a torch to a helmet seems like something anyone could do without an instruction manual, I disagree with you that it matters.
This being a game (about zombies no less), realism is a more or less foreign concept in and of itself. What matters is thematic consistency, that is, does the game mechanic (whatever one we choose to look at) make sense within the wider game systems, and on this count the "helmet light mod" makes sense, giving all other mods require some method of "learning".

Is it realistic? No, and that makes it different to the forge schematic say, since most people (myself included) couldn't possibly build one (that works) without reading up on how to do it, but that difference just doesn't matter. It's a gameplay mechanic, and the crucial point there is "game", since 7Days isn't a simulation.
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THIS.

Its a game. It becomes fun with a certain balance of GAME MECHANICS. Stop with your 'realism' argument. If you want to use realistic examples to win an argument, do it in the real world where it needs it.

Back to your example: The light mod comes from the original mining helmet. In previous alphas, the only thing that had light on your headgear was finding the all purpose, gotta-have-it mining helmet. In one alpha, I dont even think you could craft one. If you wanted to see in the dark, you had to carry a torch or a (working) flashlight. In Alpha 17 they introduced the light mod and now you can have a better armor rating and still have the light. And now your asking for it to be a day 1 gimme. Forget your reasoning, your basically whining you want the game pandered to you, which is what most people are complaining they do to much of.

 
I'm a college graduate and teacher for 8 years and I'd be hard pressed to make a functional STONE shovel, or a wood-and-plant-fiber bow with any notable power without a book telling me how to. I know the concepts of a forge, but actually building one would either take me a TON of tries...or detailed directions...like you might find in a book.
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^ exactly. Building something that LOOKS like a tool vs. building a FUNCTIONAL tool is a very different task. What is funny is "common sense" object building came from somewhere. Either a book or video someone watched. If it was a COMMON sense as people assume. Chimps would have functional stone axes and stone shovels vs sharp sticks.

 
^ exactly. Building something that LOOKS like a tool vs. building a FUNCTIONAL tool is a very different task. What is funny is "common sense" object building came from somewhere. Either a book or video someone watched. If it was a COMMON sense as people assume. Chimps would have functional stone axes and stone shovels vs sharp sticks.
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To be fair chimps put quite a lot of thought into choosing the correct stick, preparing it, and often do a better job of using it than the zoologists who study them.

 
Hmmm guess I've been spoiled by common sense and knowledge. I apologize for my rant, but come on this is ridiculous. How about working on satisfying gameplay so all the new stuff thats now locked seems worth getting to. 7 days originally seemed like a Macgyver's paradise apocalypse, and now it seems like you gave macgyver stage 4 dementia. Maybe your trying to make this game with 5 players in mind but most of us are smaller groups. In the mean time RAFT just added rudders because people complained "I can build a forge and not a rudder?"

P.S. if your a college graduate and can accumulate your knowledge to build a simple forge, what did you take, liberal arts?

 
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P.S. if your college graduate and can accumulate your knowledge to build a simple forge, what did you take, liberal arts?
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"If your" trying to come across as intellectually superior while simultaneously insulting creative people by implying they can't be intelligent maybe you should learn to write a sentence that isn't verbal diarrhea first.

 
How is that an example?I know at least 2 people who can't even boil an egg properly and I had to rush one of these people to hospital after attempting to make a tea.

I know one who firmly believes a pack of chips and a chocolate tablet is called a dinner.

I'm not even trying to exaggerate here, people like these exist and since game is placed in amerika, probability to be one of them grows exponentially.

Don't underestimate humanity ability to be John Snow.
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Yes, indeed, this exists in reality, but there is one inconsistency - such people are unlikely to be among the survivors. Well, if only in Hollywood dreams :D

The rest of the people whose hands do not grow out of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s - all of this seems absurd nonsense. From here - all this talk :)

Also, developers need to keep it all within bounds, wat would it not enter into dissonance, and did not slide into delirium on a subjective level.

And of course, you do not need to offend a neurosurgeon who does not know how to make yourself soup. But i'm sure if the situation is, he will be able to make the soup and the socket to fix without a schematic...

Any normally developed person should be able to cook an egg and attach a flashlight, in a special situation ;)

 
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Hey OP, realism comments aside, there definitely are some balancing that is still needed in some areas (e.g. crafting vs looting) but strongly disagree that A18 is "1 step forward, 2 back"

Game is much more fun as a sum of its parts for me.

 
It says everything that there are grown adults who cannot work out how to cook an egg!

Todays world is just catered toward doing everything for the poor lil darlings. As is a game hand holding you through so you dont face any "difficulties".

Movie plots are dumbed down to keep the attention from wandering.

How long before boo-boo autobandaging comes in and a man in a gyro comes in to build a base for you?

Surely to god there has to be some common sense somewhere, doesnt there?

I mean at least assume a BASIC level of intelligence and cut down on needless recipes.

 
Agreed. One of the reasons I like ARK: SE is the world to explore and creatures to discover and eventually tame. Another plus it has is its not mercilessly punishing people for having less then 4 members, which with this alpha TFP seem to have done. I dont SP on 7days because it quickly becomes a snooze fest. This really is a MP game at its core, pulling together all the stuff you find at the beginning, gathering resources to give to the architect, making a small base that evolves into an impenetrable fortess (thanks to the new block design) and ultimately thriving in the apocalypse together. Now it would seem you need to invest in all 5 trees to make every weapon, essentially eliminating a role the engineer/science tree gave. I've come to the conclusion that TFP needs to decide if common sense is going to be apart of the game or not. Ited make sense in ARK if I didn't know a damn thing because I was just born, but in 7 days, I survived the first or second stage of the apocalypse which would mean I previously had plenty of opportunity to learn just about anything.

If this is the way you intend the game to be, then at least set the story around you got hit in the head or something and now have amnesia. My second and much, MUCH more popular option is a selectable role, for example, that gives you a boost to the skills you had before the apokilisk (duck dynasty reference) like an engineer would have boosts to electrical or building skills and a neurosurgeon to use someones comment to improve medical and medicinal skills. You guys should play a game for 21 days between 4 peeps and see what most of us are dealing with. The graphics are great, time for gameplay tuning.

 
My second and much, MUCH more popular option is a selectable role, for example, that gives you a boost to the skills you had before the apokilisk (duck dynasty reference) like an engineer would have boosts to electrical or building skills and a neurosurgeon
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Popular with who? I'd hate the idea of character "classes" in 7Days and it would be something I'd immediately mod out if it were introduced. As a purely SP player, not only do I completely disagree with your assessment that we need to skill into all 5 trees to be viable, but the game being classless allows my game to develop over time, at least partially depending on what I find and feel like as I play through. Set classes would impede that.

 
How is that an example?I know at least 2 people who can't even boil an egg properly and I had to rush one of these people to hospital after attempting to make a tea.
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You left off the obvious bit at the end: "... and these people would NOT be the PCs of this game."

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THIS.
Its a game. It becomes fun with a certain balance of GAME MECHANICS.
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Fair enough. Now explain how a book to learn how to duct tape a flashlight to a helmet is consistent with the same game mechanics that allow us to make an iron pickaxe but not a baseball bat (a.k.a. a pickaxe handle).

 
Fair enough. Now explain how a book to learn how to duct tape a flashlight to a helmet is consistent with the same game mechanics that allow us to make an iron pickaxe but not a baseball bat (a.k.a. a pickaxe handle).
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That is exactly what he wanted to tell you. It's NOT about realism and not necessarily even about logic, it's a game mechanic! And the mechanic is choosen in a sense of balance. If a baseball bat is a better weapon than a club, there needs to be a prerequisit needed to craft a baseball bat, otherwise there would be no reason left why a wooden club should even exist.

And from what you said: Whats a better weapon? A pickaxe or a pickaxe handle without the pickaxe head aka baseball bat? So from your point of view and realism the pickaxe should be a better combat weapon then a baseball bat?

In regards of the baseball bat and pickaxe handle... you probably would use a simple grown wooden stick as a pickaxe handle. A basball bat on the other hand is carved with a lathe so it is well balanced. If a baseball bat is not crafted like this, it's just a wooden club.

 
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That is exactly what he wanted to tell you. It's NOT about realism and not necessarily even about logic, it's a game mechanic! And the mechanic is choosen in a sense of balance.
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"It's not about logic, it's about balance."

Because you can have balance without any underlying logic?

I'm sorry, but that doesn't hold up. Game mechanics - indeed, balance - depend on logic.

A lathe is an excellent example! Instead of scavenging the world for "baseball bat parts," how hard would it be to build a lathe (or is that part of a workbench)??? One makes NO sense... one DOES. Only one is a game mechanic, or balanced, or even logical.

 
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