PC Alpha 17, Not That Great

[Ghostlight]

Now, zombies are the main challenge of the game. It makes sense for them to be dangerous and cause bleeding and infection. I don't see how that's tedious. It makes sense. Even so, if you don't want to deal with infection/bleeding, just avoid combat. It's fairly simple, and the better option if you're not strong enough to deal with zombies, or just don't want to deal with them at all.

For goodness sake get real. Are you actually suggesting that characters that are not specced for combat should avoid combat??? What kind of perverse world do you live in?

It's FAR MORE productive for a player to not spec combat, enter a POI, get his a.s.s handed to him by a bunch of Rads that he is not equipped to fight, and then come here and complain about gamestage rising too fast. Nerfing the game so that idiots can play it without thinking about their spec and what they do with it is obviously the way forward.

 

[Ghostlight]

Tell you what? I'll see your two pages full of people reacting negatively to something they barely got their hands on and raise you all the positive reviews showing up now on Steam. Just a month ago you pointed to Steam reviews as an indication of a major problem. Well, that means by your same litmus test there must be major success going on right now.

Interesting. I am guessing you posted this before the Steam reviews took a huge downward trend for A17? You know probably because people have now had enough time to feel the full negative impact on many of A17's changes, especially those that do not manifest until you start a few fresh runs and realize how samey and bland every run now is?

Still claiming a major success?

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

The same as always. If players don´t like the game it´s their fault. Always. Game is always good. Never the fault of TFP. This is the first alpha since 10 or 11 not sure, we deceided to skip.

 

[DEADication]

I am playing A17 constantly yet I more or less dislike all the changes made in A17 (outside of vehicles, AI, graphics and POIs). Citing a site that shows me people are actually playing the game means nothing. Playing A17 doesn't mean you like the changes it brought. Many people also posted they are reverting to A16 as well. In fact many people cited that the debacle of A17 made A16 feel like a whiole new and enjoyable experience and they went back for that breath of fresh air. So yeah I prefer my stats: the vast majority of posts cite the perks as a negative change for the game. You can tell.

Three months to respond to a post.

That's some pretty nifty work there.

I stand by my post.

What has changed in that time though is the data is now showing that there are real problems.

I find it hard to imagine that TFP is not concerned... but then again, I am not a mind reader.

 

[Roland]

Interesting. I am guessing you posted this before the Steam reviews took a huge downward trend for A17? You know probably because people have now had enough time to feel the full negative impact on many of A17's changes, especially those that do not manifest until you start a few fresh runs and realize how samey and bland every run now is?
Still claiming a major success?

Guessing? The date is right there on the post. November 23rd 2018. Pretty snappy comeback on your part waiting 3 months to respond. Also you quoted me out of context. I was simply using the same logic that the person I was responding to was using with the data available at the time.

I acknowledge that the reviews went down some time after I posted that. Not sure why you are expecting me to know things before they happen. This is just smugness by someone who hopes to see TFP fail...

 

[Guppycur]

I've never understood that mentality...

...you buy a game, play it enough to become passionate about it, take the time to make a forum account, post a bunch of times, then wish for the company to fail?

Just doesn't make sense.

Not saying that's what Ghostlight has done (and in fact I don't think he/she has), but we've definitely seen the attitude enough to know it exists.

 

[PoppaTot]

I've never understood that mentality...
...you buy a game, play it enough to become passionate about it, take the time to make a forum account, post a bunch of times, then wish for the company to fail?

Just doesn't make sense.

Not saying that's what Ghostlight has done (and in fact I don't think he/she has), but we've definitely seen the attitude enough to know it exists.

Some people think that failure will result in TFP reverting course. I don't think so. I have a feeling that if the reviews tanked even more they are set on this path now and will let it play out. That's why the common rebuttal is always "don't like it, mod it".

I don't have an issue with this. Just calling it like I see it.

 

[Guppycur]

I always took it as an "I hate you mommy!" response; it's just frustration in a generation that doesn't know how to deal with things not going their way, thanks to coddling and pussification.

(again, wanna be clear, I don't think that's what Ghostlight is doing, I think Roland is trolling him a bit to GET him/her to do it).

 

[BeardedProtagonist]

SO, just thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I am a new player since A17.0. I enjoyed watching some buddy streams on twitch for this game for quite a while. I finally decided to dip my toe in. I have had trouble putting it down now

Now some of the negativity here has been based on base building aspects being secondary to zombie fighting. To that I will first say the literal name of the game is "Survival, Horde, Crafting" and I think that is literally the order of importance, and is functioning as I expected. Now a couple of notes. I play solo. (I think solo survivor is more intriguing), and I also like base building and crafting more than endless PVE fighting. Now the Fun Pimps did a wonderful thing. they gave us server settings that allow all that to be tweaked! you don't like fighting zombies as much? turn down their difficulty, make them walk all the time, not just during the day. Increase the amount of daylight and increase the length of day as well. All these setting make the zombie killing part less important. heck you can now tweak blood moons as well.

Second issue people have is the level gating. Personally I have enjoyed it. it really makes you decide where to spend those first few points. I have found that in order of early priority for me is 1) Inventory space (so STR and pack mule) 2) INT (to begin moving toward forge) 3) PERCEPT and lucky looter. HOWEVER, everyone can change that order. don't want to spend early points in INT? don't and use a POI forge or trader forge or find forged iron to repair found iron tools from working stiff boxes. same goes for armor and guns. Anyway, I like it the combo of level and stat gating. it makes for interesting planning. IMO.

Third issue. dogs and vultures. I kind of like the jump scare aspect, I have to admit and I am a base builder at heart. dogs suck, vultures suck, but both fall to like one hit (on my difficulty settings at least), they both cause bleeding most of the time, which keeps me on my toes. its fine. and BTW, kudos keeping dogs running even on "Zombies always walk" setting. I think it is just right, again IMO.

Fourth thing. Guns and gun building. I watched streamers play under the old system, and while mildly interesting seemed tedious as all hell. one of the things that made me decide to try it was the fact that they threw that out in favor of INT gating quality and Mods and Mod Schematics. I think that offers a lot of customization right there, without having to grind looting looking for the right parts. that said you still may need to grind to find the right schematics you want (silencers have been my "rare drop" for the most part)

Last thing ill note for the record, and being new to this. People need to keep an open mind and use what is available to make the game what they want their experience to be. I think the Fun Pimps are on the right track with the number of knobs and dials in the setup menu. make it more customizable so people can decide what direction they want to go. Also, rarely do happy people bother to post reviews period. if you are upset about something you are way more likely to post a review, criticism etc. its just human nature. So of course there will be more negative reviews. the only reason I came here was to glance through bug reports to see if some issues I had had been reported and then starting reading other threads. This one was a hoot people feel so special and entitled sometimes makes me smile. especially when "everyone else has to agree with me, or they are crazy" kind of posts. anyway, I am really not here to bash. if you got hundreds or thousands of hours of enjoyment for 20-30$, I would count myself EXTREMELY lucky and move on if its no longer fun for you.

Anyway, keep up the good work Fun Pimps. right now this minute I got my money's worth so if it morphs into something different, I will tip my hat to the memories and move on

 

[Roland]

I always took it as an "I hate you mommy!" response; it's just frustration in a generation that doesn't know how to deal with things not going their way, thanks to coddling and pussification.
(again, wanna be clear, I don't think that's what Ghostlight is doing, I think Roland is trolling him a bit to GET him/her to do it).

Not trolling. I do really think that’s what Ghostlight is doing based on other posts of his. He wants the game reversed and is willing to do whatever he thinks he can to make it happen— including intellectual dishonesty.

I’ll go on record now to say that I believe that A17 has been very polarizing in its effect but being polarizing doesn’t automatically mean it is a failure. The jury is still out. Most of the playerbase hasn’t gotten A17.2 yet and if TFP can get RWG and optimizations in for 17.3 there could still be a turnaround in reviews and player goodwill. But maybe not.

I’ll look for Ghostlight’s response in May...

 

[Guppycur]

Not trolling. I do really think that’s what Ghostlight is doing based on other posts of his. He wants the game reversed and is willing to do whatever he thinks he can to make it happen— including intellectual dishonesty.
I’ll go on record now to say that I believe that A17 has been very polarizing in its effect but being polarizing doesn’t automatically mean it is a failure. The jury is still out. Most of the playerbase hasn’t gotten A17.2 yet and if TFP can get RWG and optimizations in for 17.3 there could still be a turnaround in reviews and player goodwill. But maybe not.

I’ll look for Ghostlight’s response in May...

What'll REALLY happen is, people will get used to the changes, begrudgingly, and look fondly back on previous alpha's as more fun, with A17 being "acceptable".

One of the benefits of starting at the top is that even if you drop some, you're still higher than others.

...and I should have said baiting not trolling.

 

[Epicurius]

I imagine this will get removed very quickly as negative criticism is a big no no it seems but I feel I need to speak my mind.
Honestly, Alpha 17, not that great.

I think the big thing is "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind.

7DTD seems to have an issue finding itself, every alpha changes the mechanics of the game severely. Alpha 16 I feel had its ups and downs but it did hit a few nails on the head.

1. Alpha 17 feels pretty dumbed down as if its being made for the betterment of consoles only. One such thing is the quality system, something I feel Alpha 16 got pretty good. In Alpha 16 you found parts for guns of varying quality, you had to work your way up and it felt pretty satisfying working on your guns and increasing the quality from crap to death machines. It gave a sense of real progression, the same with tools and armor. Alpha 17 abandons this for a lazy and stupidly simple "select your level" system. A system which offers no real satisfaction as not only can you craft guns (which removes a huge part of looting) but it's simply too easy to get a gun. On my game I spawned in near a Shotgun Messiah, by the end of day one I had 4 AK-47s, 3 SMGs, 5 Compound Bows, 5 Pistols and 3 Shotguns, along with all the ammo in the world (which vanished because of a bug). This completely destroyed any sense of progression as I was by day 1 a walking armory. Sure, finding just parts isn't that realistic, but it was fun from a game-play point of view and this is a game where zombies and beat through reinforced steel.

2. The encumbrance is a huge pile of Screamer poop. There is a difference between hard and tedious. This system adds nothing to the game but another level of tediousness. But the Fun Pimps seem hell bent on this system despite everyone saying it sucks. I will be modding it out asap.

3. The perk system works in some areas but not all. You are no longer rewarded for using certain weapons which eliminates some of the RPG elements in this game. Not only that but the whole system is pretty crazy. You need to be level 20 to unlock a forge and use iron gear, thus being forced to use stone tool until then. Once again, this adds nothing to the game apart from another level of tediousness. This system is simply a grindfest, it's not fun or rewarding.

4. The zombie spawning is completely out of control. Multiple times I have seen zombies spawn in and have had to clear buildings multiple times as they spawn in constantly, they also spawn around you constantly and due to the new "homing" system they have, they will always be after you. You cannot hear them as they are ninjas apparently, this means that zombies are just something to be avoided or grinded. Not something you must kill to feel safe or even a source of resources.

5. Zombie vultures and dogs are OP, please listen to what people are saying TFPs.

6. Every attack by zombies and others results in bleeding or infection, once again this is pretty OP and tedious.

7. Last week I ate a bad fishcake, was sick but I did feel better after a day or so. What didn't happen was that I pooped blood, got hungry and thirsty and almost died. Characters in this game seem to have no immune system to speak of, no wonder everyone became zombies.

8. Zombie loot, please bring it back.

My final point is not so much about the game but the attitude of TheFunPimps staff at any criticism towards Alpha 17. This is an open Alpha, I assume the developers would want to make a game that pleases most fans. However, many seem to be plugging their fingers in their ears and ignoring the cries of many fans, people that paid for this game. Yes, you cannot please everyone but when most of you fanbase is saying "this is not so good" and you dismiss it, it's a good way to loose fans. Time and time again I have seen TheFunPimps staff dismiss, mock or ignore legitimate concerns and criticism on this site. Telling people that "you will get used/over it" as opposed to actually talking with them which I assume is the point of this site (among fan to fan interactions). When a large part of the fanbase expresses concerns or a dislike about an addition then many staff members just shrug their shoulders and say "well I like it" which raises the question, who is this game being made for?

Alpha 17 isn't all terrible, but instead of constantly replacing systems with dumbed down systems, why not enhance and work on the systems already in place? Reviews on Steam are already bombing due to peoples negative views of TFPs, dismissing peoples concerns will not help that.

I imagine this post will get attacked by the hoard of FunPimp superfans, eager to destroy any signs of dissidents, but, hopefully someone agrees.

The game isn't really more difficult, just more tedious and boring.

This post kind of just seems like you don't like anything bad to happen to your character. This is a SURVIVAL game. TFP just made a version of this game that makes this a reality.

 

[Epicurius]

I spent 3-4 hours playing it yesterday. Got a sledge and combat felt pretty good. But I started getting killed by vultures, my health went to sub-50, I had to death debuff and I felt completely trapped by the survival mechanics. I was not happy.
My main beef is, for the last 3-4 years this has been a voxel building game with survival elements. Now it's a survival game with voxel building elements, and that's not the kind of game I really want to play. I was hype when they announced new building blocks and improved graphics. But my experience was the visuals have been downgraded, and now the player simply must farm zombies if they want to get out of early game and into the building game. Also from what I've heard around the forums the zombies are real wrecking crews now, and I can't imagine how demoralizing it is if you spend so much more effort building a base, only to watch it get leveled in moments.

I'll probably give it some more time today, but so far I'm not impressed. I suspect the early game will just be much longer and more tedious, and once you get to level 60+ you're invincible in the daytime again, which was the problem A16 had. My only hope if once I get to 60+ the building game is still good. If they nerf building, then for me this game is officially dead. I reverted to A16 last night and I had a pretty entertaining time. Granted the glaring problems it had are all the more obvious, but that's on TFP for changing the game instead of tuning and refining what was good in the first place. And in the end I know modders will take the tedium out of A17. It's just too bad modding will probably be mandatory to inject fun into the early game again.

This game has always been a SURVIVAL Crafting game. It is in the title of the game. It is in the Kickstarter title.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Not trolling. I do really think that’s what Ghostlight is doing based on other posts of his. He wants the game reversed and is willing to do whatever he thinks he can to make it happen— including intellectual dishonesty.
I’ll go on record now to say that I believe that A17 has been very polarizing in its effect but being polarizing doesn’t automatically mean it is a failure. The jury is still out. Most of the playerbase hasn’t gotten A17.2 yet and if TFP can get RWG and optimizations in for 17.3 there could still be a turnaround in reviews and player goodwill. But maybe not.

I’ll look for Ghostlight’s response in May...

Wait until the casuals get in touch with the new economy

And please ask madmole when he buff economy again for doing it only by the perk, so that it is easy to mod the current economy back in again

 

[Royal Deluxe]

My main beef is, for the last 3-4 years this has been a voxel building game with survival elements. Now it's a survival game with voxel building elements, and that's not the kind of game I really want to play.

try this

 

[Epicurius]

+1
I spent some more time with A17 and while it's pretty impressive as a dungeon crawler, I feel like the early game is just too slow. Exactly how long do you want us to spend there? 5 hours? 10? One thing that really disappointed me is the bandage. Gating it behind level 20 or w/e feels so misguided. The perk should be available at level 1, int 1. There's just too much combat in the game now to force us to use aloe alone or woefully attempt to loot medicine. I gathered dozens of aloe to raise my max HP from 50 to 104, and dying to two wolves put it back at 50. It is just NOT FUN, not in any way. Games need to be fun and I don't enjoy being locked into either a subpar crafting experience, or farming zombie kills for several in-game days (real-life hours).

Until the level gating gets stripped down to size, and the early game becomes more than just a zed-killing dungeon crawl, I will return to A16. A17 needs more emphasis on freedom of choice for character progression. In A16 there were tradeoffs for specializing in building-related skills as early as possible. The level gating was tolerable because amassing material in preparation provided enough XP to progress in lieu of zombie combat. Why can't I make the same decisions in A17 to focus on the voxel building/mining aspects? Why make it so unattractive for so long that I lose interest?

I appreciate the new zombie AI, the interiors of the POIs which look very good now and can even tolerate the slimming-down of skills to perks and equipment qualities being streamlined. I think the POIs are really impressive and provide a lot of exploration value. But I think the new controls and feel of moving around feel clunky; the stamina system is really punishing especially in the early game; and perhaps most importantly, it takes way too long to become remotely efficient at mining/building, which pushes this core game mechanic to the late-game for me. I don't like that, and for me it's really a deal-breaker, despite all the improvements and new stuff.

My goodnes. Then go play minecraft. Every problem you are having is solved there. This is a SURVIVAL game.

 

[Roland]

This is why we don’t allow necroed threads. These early complaints are all from the raw 17 experimental back in November and don’t fully apply to today. TFP has made changes since then and the posts being responded to here don’t reflect those changes at all. There are newer more relevant complaint threads that can be responded to (either to agree or disagree) that pertain to the current version we have available.

I’m closing this one down. Sadly, Ghostlight won’t be able to respond here but maybe he can find the post 2 years ago where I was celebrating the inclusion of Ziplines and throw that in my face as well....