PC Alpha 17, Not That Great

Oh i dont know, maybe its because the first two pages here are full of negative feedback on his points and others.....read much? or just the posts kissing tfp behind?
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See, this is where your arguments don't hold a shred of credibility whatsoever.

Your inference that any positive posts about A17 are "kissing tfp behind" exposes the true salty-meter levels. I've got no issues with someone not liking some aspect of A17, there's bits about it I'm still not a fan of, but to infer that those not agreeing with you are i) a minority and ii) sucking up to TFP, HUGELY devalues your arguments.

 
Oh i dont know, maybe its because the first two pages here are full of negative feedback on his points and others.....read much? or just the posts kissing tfp behind?
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But how can that be? According to you we delete any and all criticism? Which way do you want it Bloom? What about your "inside source" that said A17 would not be out until 2018? You clearly have an agenda here and it has nothing to do with communicating genuine negative criticism.

I'll give you that the the first two pages have a lot of negative reactions to some of the new features of A17 but those threads are not full of only negative opinions. There are many posts of people who like it as well.

Tell you what? I'll see your two pages full of people reacting negatively to something they barely got their hands on and raise you all the positive reviews showing up now on Steam. Just a month ago you pointed to Steam reviews as an indication of a major problem. Well, that means by your same litmus test there must be major success going on right now.

 
So, it seems most of the people complaining here think the early game is boring and to be made as short as possible.
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Exactly. There are those who don't start having fun until they have best gear and maxed perks. The struggle and journey through progression is something to be rushed past as quickly as possible because to them it is the boring part of the game.

Which is fine. That's what modding is for-- to alter the game until it fits your preference. Those who are reasonable will be grateful that the developers have created the game in a way that makes this possible. Those who are raging and unreasonable will deride the developers for needing modders to fix their own game.

However, a person feels they need to contextualize it for themselves doesn't really matter. The devs will make the game one way. Many will be overjoyed and love the game. Many will not enjoy it but happily play mods that change it to a way that fits their preferences. Many will not enjoy it and rage about it but still play mods. And some will move on to other games.

Now moving on to another game is characterized by some on here as the ultimate feedback and the greatest proof there is that something is wrong with the game. But, the truth is that people move on to new video games all the time. It is perfectly normal. If a game can keep someone's interest for 100s of hours before the player moves on that is what is known as success.

So if you have 1000's of hours under your belt and have decided to move on now. You're welcome and best regards to you as you get into your next game.

 
But how can that be? According to you we delete any and all criticism? Which way do you want it Bloom? What about your "inside source" that said A17 would not be out until 2018? You clearly have an agenda here and it has nothing to do with communicating genuine negative criticism.
I'll give you that the the first two pages have a lot of negative reactions to some of the new features of A17 but those threads are not full of only negative opinions. There are many posts of people who like it as well.

Tell you what? I'll see your two pages full of people reacting negatively to something they barely got their hands on and raise you all the positive reviews showing up now on Steam. Just a month ago you pointed to Steam reviews as an indication of a major problem. Well, that means by your same litmus test there must be major success going on right now.
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Yeah, interestingly enough, ratings in steam have jumped from 59% I believe it was at (mixed reviews) to now a nice 83% (very positive reviews) in a matter of two days.

 
...which invalidates the whole rating system.

"It's not coming out fast enough! I've 2k hours and I want my money back!" is simply not a good gauge of a game.

 
...which invalidates the whole rating system.
"It's not coming out fast enough! I've 2k hours and I want my money back!" is simply not a good gauge of a game.
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Yes, agreed. When looking at reviews, particularly negative ones, I look to see their hours played. If it's into the hundreds or even thousands, then there needs to be a good reason for a negative review, otherwise the obvious question begs "if it's bad, why'd you sink 1,000+ hours into it."

Unfortunately Steam is prone to review bombing (in both directions actually).

 
Yes, agreed. When looking at reviews, particularly negative ones, I look to see their hours played. If it's into the hundreds or even thousands, then there needs to be a good reason for a negative review, otherwise the obvious question begs "if it's bad, why'd you sink 1,000+ hours into it."
Unfortunately Steam is prone to review bombing (in both directions actually).
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That's an easy question to answer. I played it for thousands of hours (A9-A14) and then they changed the game, and it's no longer fun.

 
That's an easy question to answer. I played it for thousands of hours (A9-A14) and then they changed the game, and it's no longer fun.
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And I have no problem with you feeling that. Over the course of the Alpha development process, there's been times when I've been less thrilled in the game than at other times. Even with A17, which I'm generally VERY happy with, there are elements I hope change.

If you can provide your feedback, logically and civilly, then you'll be doing TFP a great service, and if I were to read a review that said "started out great, but the following changes [x],[y],[z] implemented over time (with detail)" then I'd pay attention to that detail.

As a general rule, negative feedback properly put is far more valuable than positive feedback.

What DOES render feedback valueless in my eyes anyway is anyone making the following claims (in general order of their devaluing aspect):

1) That their view constitutes the majority.

2) That contrary views are just shilling for/sucking up to/excusing the developers.

3) Contain ad hominem.

4) That a negative change was deliberately implemented to lower fun.

5) That demand immediate rectification.

6) Hyperbole/caustic sarcasm in general.

 
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That's an easy question to answer. I played it for thousands of hours (A9-A14) and then they changed the game, and it's no longer fun.
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It's the opposite for me - most things I wished for came true. And in general the consensus on Steam is very postitive as shown by the review graph.

...which invalidates the whole rating system.
"It's not coming out fast enough! I've 2k hours and I want my money back!" is simply not a good gauge of a game.
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That's not to say that the delay didn't hurt the game though.

 
When are you going to finally settle on a system and finish the ■■■■ game so I can play it? Anyone else know a game with this many alpha's and this many attempts at system designs within the development of one game? Has to be a record.

 
I agree. I have played since the KS, and I have enjoyed several different 7DtD games since then. So far 17 is interesting. I am getting better at it. To me it is a new game, and I am treating it that way.

One thing I often wish about games I like it being able to go back and start over, to reexperience that what-am-I-doing time. The FP have provided that several times.

 
When are you going to finally settle on a system and finish the ■■■■ game so I can play it? Anyone else know a game with this many alpha's and this many attempts at system designs within the development of one game? Has to be a record.
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It's time to change the name to "7 upgrades needed to play" and the developers to the FunSuckingPimps.

I have waited long enough, I had my moneys worth, time to move on from this trainwreck of a developing schedule

and play games made by people that know what they are doing. It's not like there aren't any these days.

10 years on, a whole year for another update and they deliver this, an unstable version... lol

It's embarrassing, that's all it is. Sorry.

 
I think it is coming down to the fact that its been a year (A YEAR!!!!) and they just keep changing things over and over and over.
Guess I will come back in 2 months and see if anything has changed. Bluntly put I think TFP is a victim of their success. They got too much money so we have had WAY too much scope creep and ability to continuosly rework everything. Add in new games (to change or add things from) and so many Unity reworks (hell I remember when they went to Unity...). Just finish it and let modders fix it.
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Do you know about the effect smoking weed has? That effect that you get distracted easily, go do something else and forget about what you were working on?

There's your answer, this game oozes it.

Started with a game by players for players. Now it's a game from to godlike elevated amateurs by the fanbois for children with mommy's credit card. This is not 2dtd any more. This is just another one of "those" games now. But hey, this was their plan all along, honest. lol

 
1. Alpha 17 feels pretty dumbed down as if its being made for the betterment of consoles only. One such thing is the quality system, something I feel Alpha 16 got pretty good " this... makes you not seem very smart. you saying you are casual that cant enjoy a challenge therefore i wanna stay in kindergarden xD

 
There is a lot of things to like. The things not to like weigh much more sadly.

If a large part of the playerbase doesn´t like something, mods can´t be the answer.

And a new player shouldn´t even think about mods when he just started to play.

So no. Mods aren´t the answer.

Best thing for me: The longer way to iron. Still a bit too much forges on the map for my taste tough.

Enumbrance is also welcome. But feathers? Really?

I don´t like the levelgating at all. I would prefer books (like it was when the "forge ahead" book was still a thing) again. It´s random ofc and can make it hard, but it´s way more realistic in a apocalypse that you have to rely on your luck when finding usefull things.

 
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I have yet to actually get to play a17, but I will in about 16 hours. I've been playing 7dtd since A8 and I think the issue is kinda like the issue I had a few months ago, I over corrected while driving and flipped my car upside down. This game seems to have the same issue, if there is a system that doesn't work well, like being able to have iron tools on day one they over correct it by gating it till level 20. Stamina was never an issue or any concern at all in A16, but apparently they went overboard to fix that, and from what I've read, stamina is a huge issue now.

Instead of just making the game so things can be modded out that you don't like, why not more detailed in game settings? A few sliding scales for stamina, difficulty, zombie amounts, etc.

But like I said, I haven't tried it yet, I may love the changes, but I doubt it.

 
That's an easy question to answer. I played it for thousands of hours (A9-A14) and then they changed the game, and it's no longer fun.
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Well, to be fair, that's the risk taken by playing a game in development. Some people get so attached to a certain state of the game, they become frustrated when the next one changes things.

- - - Updated - - -

...which invalidates the whole rating system.
"It's not coming out fast enough! I've 2k hours and I want my money back!" is simply not a good gauge of a game.
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I feel it's more like "It's not coming out fast enough! Let's push them to release it fast by negative bombing! That should teach 'em!"

 
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