PC Alpha 17, Not That Great

[Moldy Bread]

I imagine this will get removed very quickly as negative criticism is a big no no it seems but I feel I need to speak my mind.

Honestly, Alpha 17, not that great.

I think the big thing is "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind.

7DTD seems to have an issue finding itself, every alpha changes the mechanics of the game severely. Alpha 16 I feel had its ups and downs but it did hit a few nails on the head.

1. Alpha 17 feels pretty dumbed down as if its being made for the betterment of consoles only. One such thing is the quality system, something I feel Alpha 16 got pretty good. In Alpha 16 you found parts for guns of varying quality, you had to work your way up and it felt pretty satisfying working on your guns and increasing the quality from crap to death machines. It gave a sense of real progression, the same with tools and armor. Alpha 17 abandons this for a lazy and stupidly simple "select your level" system. A system which offers no real satisfaction as not only can you craft guns (which removes a huge part of looting) but it's simply too easy to get a gun. On my game I spawned in near a Shotgun Messiah, by the end of day one I had 4 AK-47s, 3 SMGs, 5 Compound Bows, 5 Pistols and 3 Shotguns, along with all the ammo in the world (which vanished because of a bug). This completely destroyed any sense of progression as I was by day 1 a walking armory. Sure, finding just parts isn't that realistic, but it was fun from a game-play point of view and this is a game where zombies and beat through reinforced steel.

2. The encumbrance is a huge pile of Screamer poop. There is a difference between hard and tedious. This system adds nothing to the game but another level of tediousness. But the Fun Pimps seem hell bent on this system despite everyone saying it sucks. I will be modding it out asap.

3. The perk system works in some areas but not all. You are no longer rewarded for using certain weapons which eliminates some of the RPG elements in this game. Not only that but the whole system is pretty crazy. You need to be level 20 to unlock a forge and use iron gear, thus being forced to use stone tool until then. Once again, this adds nothing to the game apart from another level of tediousness. This system is simply a grindfest, it's not fun or rewarding.

4. The zombie spawning is completely out of control. Multiple times I have seen zombies spawn in and have had to clear buildings multiple times as they spawn in constantly, they also spawn around you constantly and due to the new "homing" system they have, they will always be after you. You cannot hear them as they are ninjas apparently, this means that zombies are just something to be avoided or grinded. Not something you must kill to feel safe or even a source of resources.

5. Zombie vultures and dogs are OP, please listen to what people are saying TFPs.

6. Every attack by zombies and others results in bleeding or infection, once again this is pretty OP and tedious.

7. Last week I ate a bad fishcake, was sick but I did feel better after a day or so. What didn't happen was that I pooped blood, got hungry and thirsty and almost died. Characters in this game seem to have no immune system to speak of, no wonder everyone became zombies.

8. Zombie loot, please bring it back.

My final point is not so much about the game but the attitude of TheFunPimps staff at any criticism towards Alpha 17. This is an open Alpha, I assume the developers would want to make a game that pleases most fans. However, many seem to be plugging their fingers in their ears and ignoring the cries of many fans, people that paid for this game. Yes, you cannot please everyone but when most of you fanbase is saying "this is not so good" and you dismiss it, it's a good way to loose fans. Time and time again I have seen TheFunPimps staff dismiss, mock or ignore legitimate concerns and criticism on this site. Telling people that "you will get used/over it" as opposed to actually talking with them which I assume is the point of this site (among fan to fan interactions). When a large part of the fanbase expresses concerns or a dislike about an addition then many staff members just shrug their shoulders and say "well I like it" which raises the question, who is this game being made for?

Alpha 17 isn't all terrible, but instead of constantly replacing systems with dumbed down systems, why not enhance and work on the systems already in place? Reviews on Steam are already bombing due to peoples negative views of TFPs, dismissing peoples concerns will not help that.

I imagine this post will get attacked by the hoard of FunPimp superfans, eager to destroy any signs of dissidents, but, hopefully someone agrees.

The game isn't really more difficult, just more tedious and boring.

 

[CamoesGamer]

First, i do like your post, because you show your concerns and explain your point of view. However,

I do like most of the changes brought by Alpha 17, they might need some balancing, but it has been out just for 5 days, and it's an Alpha, Experimental and Unstable.

but when most of you fanbase is saying "this is not so good" and you dismiss it, it's a good way to loose fans. Time and time again I have seen TheFunPimps staff dismiss, mock or ignore legitimate concerns and criticism on this site. Telling people that "you will get used/over it" as opposed to actually talking with them which I assume is the point of this site (among fan to fan interactions). When a large part of the fanbase expresses concerns or a dislike about an addition then many staff members just shrug their shoulders and say "well I like it" which raises the question, who is this game being made for?

What I don't understand is, how do you assume that a large part of the fanbase dislikes the changes.

 

[Guppycur]

Huh, I'm quite surprised. Figured you woulda love it mb.

 

[RestInPieces]

I imagine this will get removed very quickly as negative criticism is a big no no it seems but I feel I need to speak my mind.

As it has happened with other negative threads?

I think the big thing is "if it ain't broke don't fix it" comes to mind.

A16 was the definition of broken.

it's simply too easy to get a gun

I have to agree that even with low loot settings, "end-game" items are too abundant.

This system adds nothing to the game but another level of tediousness. But the Fun Pimps seem hell bent on this system despite everyone saying it sucks.

Definitely not everyone. Could have been implemented in a better way, yes. But personally, I am glad that we at last got an inventory system. I've been rooting for it for years.

thus being forced to use stone tool until then

That's how progression works. Being restricted, until you progress.

The zombie spawning is completely out of control. Multiple times I have seen zombies spawn in and have had to clear buildings multiple times as they spawn in constantly, they also spawn around you constantly and due to the new "homing" system they have, they will always be after you. You cannot hear them as they are ninjas apparently, this means that zombies are just something to be avoided or grinded. Not something you must kill to feel safe or even a source of resources.

Zombie vultures and dogs are OP, please listen to what people are saying TFPs.

Zombie loot, please bring it back.

Zombies should definitely not be a source of loot. You are talking about the game being dumped down, yet you want truckloads of loot delivered at your door like in A16.

I agree that dogs and vultures are cheap. They need sound cues and smoother animations. Zombies sometimes being completely silent also makes little sense.

Every attack by zombies and others results in bleeding or infection, once again this is pretty OP and tedious.

It doesn't - that wasn't my experience at least.

7. Last week I ate a bad fishcake, was sick but I did feel better after a day or so. What didn't happen was that I pooped blood, got hungry and thirsty and almost died. Characters in this game seem to have no immune system to speak of, no wonder everyone became zombies.

Were you malnourished while working to survive in real life too?

ignoring the cries of many fans, people that paid for this game.... when most of you fanbase is saying "this is not so good" and you dismiss it, it's a good way to loose fans.

I imagine this post will get attacked by the hoard of FunPimp superfans, eager to destroy any signs of dissidents, but, hopefully someone agrees.

Uh... where do I belong? The "fan majority" or the "bloodthirsty superfan hoards"? I agreed with some points...?

 

[SurvivalUK]

I agree with the sentiments MB and very well articulated / respectful and that's coming from an old timers (pre-steam days) perspective.

I would say you missed off the "lalalala, they'll get used to it. It's because people don't like change" comments. True enough, but when the changes are going backwards or they try to extract features from other games and shoe horn them in failing miserable it's frustrating. Can anyone tell some of the devs are fans of FO4 .

To TFP credit at least mods are supported, modders just need a stable base platform (A17 isn't it) and then the game can be fleshed out properly imo.

 

[SickPuppy]

The encumbrance really isn't that big of an issue, u can be a few items over the limit and still out run feral zombies and pretty much everything else. Big clue in the perk name "Rule #!: Cardio". There's also a limitless supply of containers you can store loot for later, hardly any of it is that important to always carry early game.

I do prefer a16 leveling with using items and weapons and also agree some locked perks are a little over the top like boiling egg, bacon n eggs, would've been nice to find bicycles too, but the perk system isn't game breaking by all means. As for the forge and iron tools I see people mention this a bit but I've tested 4 maps and found working forges in all of them, I didn't even travel that far in the map. There's forge houses, forges in traders and every game the trader has iron pickaxe, axe, hunting knife and iron armor. As quality doesn't degrade to lower levels once you've bought a nice item you you repair it with 1 to 2 iron bars. People seem fixated on rushing how they played a16, it's time to adapt to some survival challenge.

Agree on the zombie spawn, never liked them respawning out of thin air, hope they fix/change it.

Absolutely love vultures and dogs, easy to out run, very low health, keeps me on my toes. Yes please listen to this TFP.

 

[Ghostlight]

First, i do like your post, because you show your concerns and explain your point of view. However, I do like most of the changes brought by Alpha 17, they might need some balancing, but it has been out just for 5 days, and it's an Alpha, Experimental and Unstable.

What I don't understand is, how do you assume that a large part of the fanbase dislikes the changes.

When you get 10 negative threads for every positive one, you can tell....

 

[Xtrakicking]

Disagree heavily on 5 and 6.

Seriously, I don't want to sound aggressive, but you guys are either exaggerating or just don't have much experience with the game. Dogs have never been "OP". In fact, if anything, they were way more of a challenge back in previous alphas. Now, even after TFP have fixed their erratic behaviour, have added give up timers and have reduced their speed, you guys still think they're "OP". I don't understand, to be honest, what the big deal is with dogs.

Now, zombies are the main challenge of the game. It makes sense for them to be dangerous and cause bleeding and infection. I don't see how that's tedious. It makes sense. Even so, if you don't want to deal with infection/bleeding, just avoid combat. It's fairly simple, and the better option if you're not strong enough to deal with zombies, or just don't want to deal with them at all.

 

[sadpickle]

I spent 3-4 hours playing it yesterday. Got a sledge and combat felt pretty good. But I started getting killed by vultures, my health went to sub-50, I had to death debuff and I felt completely trapped by the survival mechanics. I was not happy.

My main beef is, for the last 3-4 years this has been a voxel building game with survival elements. Now it's a survival game with voxel building elements, and that's not the kind of game I really want to play. I was hype when they announced new building blocks and improved graphics. But my experience was the visuals have been downgraded, and now the player simply must farm zombies if they want to get out of early game and into the building game. Also from what I've heard around the forums the zombies are real wrecking crews now, and I can't imagine how demoralizing it is if you spend so much more effort building a base, only to watch it get leveled in moments.

I'll probably give it some more time today, but so far I'm not impressed. I suspect the early game will just be much longer and more tedious, and once you get to level 60+ you're invincible in the daytime again, which was the problem A16 had. My only hope if once I get to 60+ the building game is still good. If they nerf building, then for me this game is officially dead. I reverted to A16 last night and I had a pretty entertaining time. Granted the glaring problems it had are all the more obvious, but that's on TFP for changing the game instead of tuning and refining what was good in the first place. And in the end I know modders will take the tedium out of A17. It's just too bad modding will probably be mandatory to inject fun into the early game again.

 

[wordwaster]

yeah. i'm uninstalling. game has tripled down on time wasting mechanics and devs go around calling players liars. i lost my excitement for this build 6months ago and this build did not had enough new gameplay to reignite it. just changes to systems that have been changed over and over and over again. blah.

 

[Khulkhuum]

Something occured to me when reading this topics comments... So many people say that the new skill tree is so bad because it is levelgating...

Does anyone remember A16 skills? Sure you could buy some of the first levels of some skills, but later stages required quite a lot of points or levels. Miner 69'er? Invest into Mining skill before you can upgrade it further. Want water or food usage cut even more? Reach level 20/40/60... Want bigger bonuses for weapons? You need more proficiency in the base skill if you want to decapitate/do more damage. So either git gud with the base skills or invest hard earned points into them before you learn that "Decapitator" level 3 or 4.

The only difference now is that some of the "essentials" like the forge or minibike are locked away after a higher base values. I guess some tweaking could be done, but on the other hand it pushes early game a bit to try scavenging/doing quests/grinding/coming up ideas for the first day horde.

 

[Xtrakicking]

Something occured to me when reading this topics comments... So many people say that the new skill tree is so bad because it is levelgating...
Does anyone remember A16 skills? Sure you could buy some of the first levels of some skills, but later stages required quite a lot of points or levels. Miner 69'er? Invest into Mining skill before you can upgrade it further. Want water or food usage cut even more? Reach level 20/40/60... Want bigger bonuses for weapons? You need more proficiency in the base skill if you want to decapitate/do more damage. So either git gud with the base skills or invest hard earned points into them before you learn that "Decapitator" level 3 or 4.

The only difference now is that some of the "essentials" like the forge or minibike are locked away after a higher base values. I guess some tweaking could be done, but on the other hand it pushes early game a bit to try scavenging/doing quests/grinding/coming up ideas for the first day horde.

I will say, though, that the biggest problem with the new levelgating of the forge is that you're basically forced to spend your first 20 points (20 levels) in the intelligence thing to get the forge, else you won't progress to even basic material crafting ever.

I like the new perks, but I'll admit that's pretty bad design for that particular case. What's the point of having 100s of beautiful skills and abilities if you're forced to use your points on one thing to progress?

 

[DEADication]

When you get 10 negative threads for every positive one, you can tell....

How about some real statistics.

https://steamdb.info/app/251570/graphs/

They work much better than made up ones.

 

[enragedcamel]

I don't understand how these devs call themselves "The Fun Pimps" and are so good at destroying all the fun elements of the game.

If I wanted to play a primarily survival game, I'd go play Dying Light, which, unlike this game, has an incredible combat and movement system.

I purchased 7D2D because I want to play a primarily base-building game with survival elements sprinkled in. A16 had flaws, but it came pretty close to it. Now though pendulum has swung completely in the opposite direction, and you need to farm zombies for hours before you can do anything interesting.

 

[shigs25]

There is hardly correlation between number of negative threads and the community's overall feedback. Keep in mind while the naysayers are busy posting negative comments the rest of us are too busy playing and loving a17 to fill the forums with positive threads.

 

[NBornkilla]

im loving alpha17

 

[Katitof]

1) That's really subjective opinion, its also wrong one. Weapon parts was a tedious grind of both perks AND parts, current solution provides ACTUAL customization that didn't existed before, I'd take weapon mods over parts anyday. Guns also aren't supposed to be murdermashines, it all depends on the shooter, I can guarantee you that 100 year old pistol will kill you just as fine as top quality one made today. Also, so what if you found all these guns? You do not have skills to use them to the fullest nor you have the ammo to use them for more then couple of Zs or POIs.

2) Literally ALL survival games have that mechanic in one way or another. Only exception is Minecraft. In late game you can also completely get rid of it through the use of armor mods.

3) Not sure what you mean in terms of different weapons having different benefits. As in melee? That still exist. Ranged never had any.

In regards to forge, there are POIs with in-build crafting stations, maybe now they will actually be used, don't you think? You can have forge 5 minutes after you spawn if you're lucky.

4) no idea about that, didn't experienced myself.

5) Not really, they never were, if you are not noob, they never were issue at all.

6) Wear armor.

7) You aren't consuming EU trading norm compelling fresh goods and water in the game and you don't know how long this stuff has been there.

Yes, vendor and vending machines may have some cans and stuff, but have you seen many freezer trucks delivering them right from fresh food processing factories around?

8) Iterations in previous patches were terrible, the loot exists with 2% drop, its much better then ever when it drops and much more rewarding, sorry, you now have to actually leave your base instead of having the horde bring you all the supplies you can get, including top tier quality guns and armor.

 

[Guppycur]

When you get 10 negative threads for every positive one, you can tell....

Yeh, it means it's a resounding success, because the ratio isn't 1000:1, which is more in line with reality.

 

[Gazz]

The only offensive part that may be grounds for deletion is the first line of the OP.

 

[johnperkins21]

I imagine this will get removed very quickly as negative criticism is a big no no it seems but I feel I need to speak my mind.

What? I've some defensiveness from the devs, but you'd be somewhat defensive of something you worked your ass on as well. I haven't seen any critical threads get removed. This is kind of a lame way to start a post.

7DTD seems to have an issue finding itself, every alpha changes the mechanics of the game severely. Alpha 16 I feel had its ups and downs but it did hit a few nails on the head.

That's what an alpha is. Throw some mechanics at the wall and see what works. Change what doesn't.

1. Alpha 17 feels pretty dumbed down as if its being made for the betterment of consoles only. One such thing is the quality system, something I feel Alpha 16 got pretty good. In Alpha 16 you found parts for guns of varying quality, you had to work your way up and it felt pretty satisfying working on your guns and increasing the quality from crap to death machines. It gave a sense of real progression, the same with tools and armor. Alpha 17 abandons this for a lazy and stupidly simple "select your level" system. A system which offers no real satisfaction as not only can you craft guns (which removes a huge part of looting) but it's simply too easy to get a gun. On my game I spawned in near a Shotgun Messiah, by the end of day one I had 4 AK-47s, 3 SMGs, 5 Compound Bows, 5 Pistols and 3 Shotguns, along with all the ammo in the world (which vanished because of a bug). This completely destroyed any sense of progression as I was by day 1 a walking armory. Sure, finding just parts isn't that realistic, but it was fun from a game-play point of view and this is a game where zombies and beat through reinforced steel.
2. The encumbrance is a huge pile of Screamer poop. There is a difference between hard and tedious. This system adds nothing to the game but another level of tediousness. But the Fun Pimps seem hell bent on this system despite everyone saying it sucks. I will be modding it out asap.

3. The perk system works in some areas but not all. You are no longer rewarded for using certain weapons which eliminates some of the RPG elements in this game. Not only that but the whole system is pretty crazy. You need to be level 20 to unlock a forge and use iron gear, thus being forced to use stone tool until then. Once again, this adds nothing to the game apart from another level of tediousness. This system is simply a grindfest, it's not fun or rewarding.

4. The zombie spawning is completely out of control. Multiple times I have seen zombies spawn in and have had to clear buildings multiple times as they spawn in constantly, they also spawn around you constantly and due to the new "homing" system they have, they will always be after you. You cannot hear them as they are ninjas apparently, this means that zombies are just something to be avoided or grinded. Not something you must kill to feel safe or even a source of resources.

5. Zombie vultures and dogs are OP, please listen to what people are saying TFPs.

6. Every attack by zombies and others results in bleeding or infection, once again this is pretty OP and tedious.

7. Last week I ate a bad fishcake, was sick but I did feel better after a day or so. What didn't happen was that I pooped blood, got hungry and thirsty and almost died. Characters in this game seem to have no immune system to speak of, no wonder everyone became zombies.

8. Zombie loot, please bring it back.

1. I think this is more of a balancing issue. The idea of weapon mods is a decent one, and I think it provides more options overall. I don't think this was done to dumb it down, but to give them more options.

2. I kind of agree with you. I don't think it should be a perk, but something that gets better the more you do. Running, farming, and fighting should increase your stamina and allow you to carry more. Instead of having to buy the perk to carry more, you should just have slots open as you "work out" and get stronger.

3. Yup, needs work. I think it's a good idea, just needs to be tweaked to make more sense and let you access things more quickly if you focus specifically on those perks.

4. Agreed. I greatly decreased the range of my sounds in the sounds.xml file and now I'm really enjoying going through the POIs. Not seeing random spawns that immediately know where I am nearly as often. Occasionally, but way less than I was originally.

5. Dogs suck. Something needs to be done about them. I've never been attacked by a vulture. I've seen them following me, but they've never even come close to attacking me.

6. Armor helps with the bleeding. Before armor, I'd say 66% of the hits I took caused me to bleed. Now it's closer to 10%.

7. Agree.

8. I do think more zombies should drop loot, but other than that I'm ok with the current system. If they doubled the number of zombies that drop loot I think that would work.