Foreword
Heya, i played '7 Days to die' quite some time now and i know that there is a group of people, that say things like "You did not play 100+, 1000+, 10000+ hours and have absolutely no clue!". If you are one of those persons, that believe that knowledge about specific things, are locked behind huge playtimes, you should probably consider to reevaluate your existence.
I know, i know. Existence is pain but you dont have to suffer more than anyone else. Start to educate yourself and you will learn, that huge playtimes and low playtimes mean absolutely nothing in a mind, that knows or seems to know things. Basically, this is just an constructive critique that, i hope, the developer want to receive while in Alpha-State.
Experience System
I was a bit confused how much experience what gives and why sometimes you dont even receive experience points while doing various things in the world. So, i will, for the sake of easyness (is that even a word?) i use the random number 0-10xp and bonusxp range from 10 - 30. I did not do any specific maths but i wanted to be sure using easy numbers in the range i saw them popping up (Testing procedure was always waiting so the numbers disappear and dont stack).
I know how it was in the beginning, that you can just start to build and do whatever you wanted to do and for some there starts the problem. I dont know what it is but i imagine it is the inability to create your own quests and adventures and such to entertain yourself for a longer period of time. Maybe the pre-newWay System was too open. I simply cant tell because i did not play before pre-newWay (Alpha 17, experimental)
But here is what i experienced:
But, before i go deeper in the Feedback i have one single Question to the Devs:
Lorewise, do we play a US Military Veteran that got into Military with 17 and is/was highly uneducated?
Because only then i would understand the Perk-System and how it works. Else... it is there because you wanted it?
The Character knows how to fight, kill, use any existing weapon and so on. But is not capable of tilling land with simple tools. Getting Seeds from crops and all those things that are - kind of - considered basic knowledge? I may be misinformed or i was basically wrong educated (German System) but i learned not only three different Jobs but my education was only, basically, high school. Which means my education level is very basic and i have to learn everything else on my own. But, in my young years, i learned a lot in school about biology and more. Plants, Crops, Body and so on. Not really survival but i could get a grasp on things.
Through my careers i learned a lot about working with tools as a chef, as a general worker, store clerk and so on. In short: Jack of all trades, but master of none - still better as a master of one (so for everyone that doesnt know the full saying). And, for the fun, i learned a little bit about game developing, creating skill-trees and such things. There is also an absolutely astonishing video but sadly i did not find it just in time for this feedback. As soon i will find it, i post it into the feedback.
Lets go down to the Experience Points and what feels rewarding and what does not feel rewarding:
Feels extremely, i would even say, overly rewarding.
Exhausting, because first i have to kill a lot of Zombies to get the necessary Perks. Sadly, it felt not really rewarding. Basically, i got barely 1 Level with building.
Not rewarding except for the loot within exploring buildings.
Not rewarding because i barely could live off a deer, a day.
How would i do it? Because critique is only so good if you offer solutions.
Its the main thing within a Zombie Apocalypse. Right? So you have to fight zombies everywhere and it should be rewarding, not experience-wise. It should give you way less experience-points but loot. Because, you cant tell me that every single Zombie does not wear any clothing, has not things on it that it needed in its existence before (Nurses maybe have bandages or basically medical stuff. Workers have tools and building materials). You get the point.
So, killing Zombies would be rewarding with a bit of experience and some loot. Not overwhelmingly much loot. But it would give Zombies a real purpose in the game to be hunted. Because they were people before they turned into zombies. And it would be an option what you want to do. Not a permanent must.
Harvesting feels bland in its rewards. Hit a tree and get wood and maybe a couple experience points. So change it up. Give only wood when the tree is fully harvested (Tree falls!) and only give experience as well then. Again. Give things a purpose except a walk-by and hit once/twice for things.
Because a building is the main defence against environment and zombies. Keep them and the weather out, and you in. Give building a real purpose. Make it rewarding, basically with like "You build a 9x9x9 House? Great, i know it was a lot of works but you really learned some thing!" and hand out experience as a huge reward at the end of a building (One time quest).
Else, give people a fixed amount of experience point, not a random generated number. Basically to build a single wooden piece of wall, you need to gather wood, build the frame, place it, finish it and maybe upgrade it to a barricaded wooden wall. That all takes a good amount of time and at the end you're rewarded with basically 0 - 10xp.
Random is, only in my opinion, best in games that work with it really hard. As an example: Slay the Spire. It is absolutely random and therefore used its random generations to an absolute perfect symbiotic of fun<->random.
Basically give fix experience points for everything.
Perks/Skills
This is a strict fantasy theory:
If you use 5 food per ingame hour and you get to choose a perk that says "Use 10% less food" we have 10%... Which is 0,5. So we use only 4,5 per ingame hour. Its... blergh.
Dont use percents. Use fixed numbers, whole numbers. Its way more rewarding for many people than a boring skill that gives you x-percent on something. A perk that gives you something good feels rewarding and opens up opportunities for many playstiles or whatever you can imagine.
Perception 1 - 10
You aim better? You do more damage? What does perception do for damage? Buillets, Arrows and so on do a fixed amount of damage and, potentially, cant change its numbers just based on perception. Lets see if my idea rewards - its only an example, not an actual suggestion (maybe you could use it).
Perception 1: Slow enemies for 1 second if you hit them in the legs/feet with a ranged attack. (cripple effect).
Perception 2: Stagger enemies (stagger = stay on spot) when you hit them in their chest. Enemies cant be staggered for three seconds after a stagger attack.
Perception 3: Slow enemies for 2 seconds
Perception 4.... You get the point. Do something meaningful that makes a skilltree/attribute point interesting and fun to level.
Gunslinger
Why should i ever user this? Basically i dont need it. Because everything can be planned and executed for most players. Buckle up cowboy, i show you real gunslinger talents.
1: Pistols do Gunslinger-Rank more Damage. (balance the numbers)
2: Last Shot Counts! Your last bullet in a magazine does double damage.
3: City aint big enough! Double the gunslinger-level for the rank1-perk.
4: Big iron. Pistols/Revolver dont loose any durability anymore.
5: Ongoing Gunslinger. When you kill an enemy with a Pistol/Revolver, reload your magazine instantly and the next bullet is a 'last bullet' for the rank2-perk.
I can go on and on to make the whole perk-system worthwile and interesting. Maybe you had similary ideas, bring them in. A good skilltree is one where every single skill is fun as well as rewarding to use. Passive effects are okay but dont use percents. Its so bland and boring - at least for me.
Like the Gunslinger Example. 2 Points in Perception open up the Level 2 possibliities. 4 Points for Level 3 and so on. So you have something to look forward to (awesome skills/perks) and have basically a 'forced' method of making players choose a way of how they want to play the game for a longer time.
Now we use the common "But, mods are doing x/y/z!"
Why should it be that way? Modders are not here to make a game interesting. They are here to make a game MORE interesting, to build in ideas and fun things. Not to make the game first hand attractive to potential customers.
Final Words on this Feedback
All of this is critique on a game i like to play. If i dont want something in a game, i will use mods or write mods myself to make it the way i want it. But also, deep feedback can be used to improve a game or yourself as a (game) developer. Its important that people give out their feedback-ideas and ways, their fears, their things that they like and so on.
If a user reads this as a death-metal-hatred text, its their way to read things. But its not meant bad or whatever. Something i see as a fun comment may not be understand that way, so let me say: Nothing in this feedback is a insult.
Also , i am german and i am aware that my english isnt very good. If you have problems figuring out what i mean, just ask me.
Here's the Video "Building better Skilltrees"
Stay crunchy and may the seventh day be in your favor.
Heya, i played '7 Days to die' quite some time now and i know that there is a group of people, that say things like "You did not play 100+, 1000+, 10000+ hours and have absolutely no clue!". If you are one of those persons, that believe that knowledge about specific things, are locked behind huge playtimes, you should probably consider to reevaluate your existence.
I know, i know. Existence is pain but you dont have to suffer more than anyone else. Start to educate yourself and you will learn, that huge playtimes and low playtimes mean absolutely nothing in a mind, that knows or seems to know things. Basically, this is just an constructive critique that, i hope, the developer want to receive while in Alpha-State.
Experience System
I was a bit confused how much experience what gives and why sometimes you dont even receive experience points while doing various things in the world. So, i will, for the sake of easyness (is that even a word?) i use the random number 0-10xp and bonusxp range from 10 - 30. I did not do any specific maths but i wanted to be sure using easy numbers in the range i saw them popping up (Testing procedure was always waiting so the numbers disappear and dont stack).
I know how it was in the beginning, that you can just start to build and do whatever you wanted to do and for some there starts the problem. I dont know what it is but i imagine it is the inability to create your own quests and adventures and such to entertain yourself for a longer period of time. Maybe the pre-newWay System was too open. I simply cant tell because i did not play before pre-newWay (Alpha 17, experimental)
But here is what i experienced:
- You get experience when you gather various things (A.e.: Harvesting Crops, breaking blocks etc)
- You get experience for killing Zombies.
But, before i go deeper in the Feedback i have one single Question to the Devs:
Lorewise, do we play a US Military Veteran that got into Military with 17 and is/was highly uneducated?
Because only then i would understand the Perk-System and how it works. Else... it is there because you wanted it?
The Character knows how to fight, kill, use any existing weapon and so on. But is not capable of tilling land with simple tools. Getting Seeds from crops and all those things that are - kind of - considered basic knowledge? I may be misinformed or i was basically wrong educated (German System) but i learned not only three different Jobs but my education was only, basically, high school. Which means my education level is very basic and i have to learn everything else on my own. But, in my young years, i learned a lot in school about biology and more. Plants, Crops, Body and so on. Not really survival but i could get a grasp on things.
Through my careers i learned a lot about working with tools as a chef, as a general worker, store clerk and so on. In short: Jack of all trades, but master of none - still better as a master of one (so for everyone that doesnt know the full saying). And, for the fun, i learned a little bit about game developing, creating skill-trees and such things. There is also an absolutely astonishing video but sadly i did not find it just in time for this feedback. As soon i will find it, i post it into the feedback.
Lets go down to the Experience Points and what feels rewarding and what does not feel rewarding:
- Killing a Zombie
Feels extremely, i would even say, overly rewarding.
- Building a House with Defenses, a Garden and some small Rooms
Exhausting, because first i have to kill a lot of Zombies to get the necessary Perks. Sadly, it felt not really rewarding. Basically, i got barely 1 Level with building.
- Exploring
Not rewarding except for the loot within exploring buildings.
- Hunting
Not rewarding because i barely could live off a deer, a day.
How would i do it? Because critique is only so good if you offer solutions.
- Killing a Zombie
Its the main thing within a Zombie Apocalypse. Right? So you have to fight zombies everywhere and it should be rewarding, not experience-wise. It should give you way less experience-points but loot. Because, you cant tell me that every single Zombie does not wear any clothing, has not things on it that it needed in its existence before (Nurses maybe have bandages or basically medical stuff. Workers have tools and building materials). You get the point.
So, killing Zombies would be rewarding with a bit of experience and some loot. Not overwhelmingly much loot. But it would give Zombies a real purpose in the game to be hunted. Because they were people before they turned into zombies. And it would be an option what you want to do. Not a permanent must.
- Harvesting
Harvesting feels bland in its rewards. Hit a tree and get wood and maybe a couple experience points. So change it up. Give only wood when the tree is fully harvested (Tree falls!) and only give experience as well then. Again. Give things a purpose except a walk-by and hit once/twice for things.
- Building
Because a building is the main defence against environment and zombies. Keep them and the weather out, and you in. Give building a real purpose. Make it rewarding, basically with like "You build a 9x9x9 House? Great, i know it was a lot of works but you really learned some thing!" and hand out experience as a huge reward at the end of a building (One time quest).
Else, give people a fixed amount of experience point, not a random generated number. Basically to build a single wooden piece of wall, you need to gather wood, build the frame, place it, finish it and maybe upgrade it to a barricaded wooden wall. That all takes a good amount of time and at the end you're rewarded with basically 0 - 10xp.
- No Random Experience Points
Random is, only in my opinion, best in games that work with it really hard. As an example: Slay the Spire. It is absolutely random and therefore used its random generations to an absolute perfect symbiotic of fun<->random.
Basically give fix experience points for everything.
Perks/Skills
This is a strict fantasy theory:
If you use 5 food per ingame hour and you get to choose a perk that says "Use 10% less food" we have 10%... Which is 0,5. So we use only 4,5 per ingame hour. Its... blergh.
Dont use percents. Use fixed numbers, whole numbers. Its way more rewarding for many people than a boring skill that gives you x-percent on something. A perk that gives you something good feels rewarding and opens up opportunities for many playstiles or whatever you can imagine.
Perception 1 - 10
You aim better? You do more damage? What does perception do for damage? Buillets, Arrows and so on do a fixed amount of damage and, potentially, cant change its numbers just based on perception. Lets see if my idea rewards - its only an example, not an actual suggestion (maybe you could use it).
Perception 1: Slow enemies for 1 second if you hit them in the legs/feet with a ranged attack. (cripple effect).
Perception 2: Stagger enemies (stagger = stay on spot) when you hit them in their chest. Enemies cant be staggered for three seconds after a stagger attack.
Perception 3: Slow enemies for 2 seconds
Perception 4.... You get the point. Do something meaningful that makes a skilltree/attribute point interesting and fun to level.
Gunslinger
Why should i ever user this? Basically i dont need it. Because everything can be planned and executed for most players. Buckle up cowboy, i show you real gunslinger talents.
1: Pistols do Gunslinger-Rank more Damage. (balance the numbers)
2: Last Shot Counts! Your last bullet in a magazine does double damage.
3: City aint big enough! Double the gunslinger-level for the rank1-perk.
4: Big iron. Pistols/Revolver dont loose any durability anymore.
5: Ongoing Gunslinger. When you kill an enemy with a Pistol/Revolver, reload your magazine instantly and the next bullet is a 'last bullet' for the rank2-perk.
I can go on and on to make the whole perk-system worthwile and interesting. Maybe you had similary ideas, bring them in. A good skilltree is one where every single skill is fun as well as rewarding to use. Passive effects are okay but dont use percents. Its so bland and boring - at least for me.
Like the Gunslinger Example. 2 Points in Perception open up the Level 2 possibliities. 4 Points for Level 3 and so on. So you have something to look forward to (awesome skills/perks) and have basically a 'forced' method of making players choose a way of how they want to play the game for a longer time.
Now we use the common "But, mods are doing x/y/z!"
Why should it be that way? Modders are not here to make a game interesting. They are here to make a game MORE interesting, to build in ideas and fun things. Not to make the game first hand attractive to potential customers.
Final Words on this Feedback
All of this is critique on a game i like to play. If i dont want something in a game, i will use mods or write mods myself to make it the way i want it. But also, deep feedback can be used to improve a game or yourself as a (game) developer. Its important that people give out their feedback-ideas and ways, their fears, their things that they like and so on.
If a user reads this as a death-metal-hatred text, its their way to read things. But its not meant bad or whatever. Something i see as a fun comment may not be understand that way, so let me say: Nothing in this feedback is a insult.
Also , i am german and i am aware that my english isnt very good. If you have problems figuring out what i mean, just ask me.
Here's the Video "Building better Skilltrees"
Stay crunchy and may the seventh day be in your favor.
which was funny the first couple times, but pretty annoying after. Thankfully they corrected that. However, Rust came out, and some other games that gave you resources without actually completing a task. That's why the smaller twigs gave you wood early game rather than a tree. Therefore risk vs reward if zombies around you had to deal with them rather than whack the tree a couple times then run away.
so I fear if they'd try it would be worse after 
