PC Almost 1 year since the last "major" update

[Yark]

Pot and kettle dude. pot and kettle. I answered you at the same exact level that you began. Don't dish out medicine you can't swallow yourself.

I don't think you know what this means. Don't misquote me or hyperbolize what I've said to bolster your position. 

As to what you said about playing something else in the mean time, I just told you that I hadn't played in months. More accurately I haven't participated in a playthrough of any significant duration since I joined this community over a year ago. It's absurd that development time is spent on something like an HD zombie model, when minor bugs and aesthetic flaws persist for so long. No matter how much you may love the game, I am justified in my criticism of these decisions. 

 

[Roland]

As to what you said about playing something else in the mean time, I just told you that I hadn't played in months.

Yes, but don't misquote yourself. You said you hadn't played in months and then logged in and noticed.....

My advice to you wasn't based on the months of not playing part of your statement. My advice was based on the you logging in again before the game is done part of your statement. That advice still stands: If there are in your estimation inexcusable omissions in the game such that you leap to the conclusion that the devs are lazy and that assumption leads to you feeling upset in any degree and ruins your appreciation for the game then refrain from logging in until you get the notification that it is out of early access. On the other hand, if you are interested in providing bug reports in a nonaggressive manner and without loaded assumptions mixed in as to the capabilities and work ethic of the developers then by all means log in, play, and report.

It's absurd that development time is spent on something like an HD zombie model

It's not absurd when the announcement of the work completed is from the art team. What is absurd is thinking that the entire TFP team is only working on HD zombie models. There are some working on those, others doing optimizations, others working on fixing bugs, and others working on new features and improvements of existing features. It is true that nobody has as of this writing worked on changing "house_old_3" to "Cooter's place" in the localization files. But somebody will when the time is right. And even though you can't see a picture of optimizations and bug fixes like you can of a new HD zombie model, those things are being worked on by the appropriate members of the team. In the meantime, it is nice to get updates of whatever is being worked on by whoever and since the game is still in development those who don't find the process inexcusable understand that sometimes they might have to read something like "house_old_3" until a member of the staff gets to that job.

No matter how much you may love the game, I am justified in my criticism of these decisions.

No matter how much I may love the game, you are justified in your criticism of these decisions. Agreed. Thanks for your comments. You're welcome for mine. Public forum.

Look, I get that you don't like the favorable, forgiving, patient, and hopeful vibe of this forum. But you have to understand that this is the developer's forum and those who are here long term are fans and generally believe that the developers are competent and hard working. So when criticism is given it is best given with a respectful attitude-- this being their house and their party and all. Criticism is welcome, for sure, and even those of us who post here often have differing expectations and views than the developers. So we voice our dissension and give our suggestions for what we would like but simply leave insults like "lazy devs" and "too complicated for them" out of the post. 

If you want to call the devs lazy and then have twenty comments backing you up and piling on about what scumbags they must be living off all that money for years and inching along just to milk everyone for more...you can get that catharsis on reddit or discord or facebook. There are plenty of avenues for toxic conversation and insults vs the developers on message boards out there if that is what you are looking for (and viewing your post history it seems to be what you're looking for). Here, you get called on that behavior. I never discounted your actual criticism or denied that there are unfinished localization issues and that the healing perk is not working like it used to. I affirm those observations. I also agree that the development time has grown long in the tooth and the good news is that the development team feels it too. They are excited by two future projects and so are working hard to finish this one off-- hopefully to most everyone's satisfaction.

 

[7daysexpert]

I don't think you know what this means. Don't misquote me or hyperbolize what I've said to bolster your position. 

As to what you said about playing something else in the mean time, I just told you that I hadn't played in months. More accurately I haven't participated in a playthrough of any significant duration since I joined this community over a year ago. It's absurd that development time is spent on something like an HD zombie model, when minor bugs and aesthetic flaws persist for so long. No matter how much you may love the game, I am justified in my criticism of these decisions. 

would you rather have a good quality update that takes a year or a meh update that takes 6 months unless you understand programming and coding  you really dont know what your talking about it is alot harder than you realize

 

[Skuriles]

I love 7DTD, it is beside CIV games and some MMOs the only game I have several 100s of hours played. 
BUT, I remember the discussion around A15/A16 when it took nearly 1,5 years for a new alpha, and from TFP it was stated, that it takes so long, because they implement a system which allows them to work on the project faster for future alphas. What happened: Every new alpha took as long as the old ones (between 6-15 months). 
I can live with that, but don't understand what system was implemented to speed up the development to end up with slower release cycles .

But as I'm a developer myself I understand that, and the fact that TFP is working on another project, while 7DTD has still real good sales counts (so money should not be the problem) it will probably take another 2 years to get it gold (or never will be out of EA, who knows). 

I check out other games or mods and as soon as new alpha drops in, I will check it out. So I will not spend any more time to think about "why is there no new alpha", but just going to enjoy other stuff.

 

[meganoth]

I love 7DTD, it is beside CIV games and some MMOs the only game I have several 100s of hours played. 
BUT, I remember the discussion around A15/A16 when it took nearly 1,5 years for a new alpha, and from TFP it was stated, that it takes so long, because they implement a system which allows them to work on the project faster for future alphas. What happened: Every new alpha took as long as the old ones (between 6-15 months). 
I can live with that, but don't understand what system was implemented to speed up the development to end up with slower release cycles .

But as I'm a developer myself I understand that, and the fact that TFP is working on another project, while 7DTD has still real good sales counts (so money should not be the problem) it will probably take another 2 years to get it gold (or never will be out of EA, who knows). 

I check out other games or mods and as soon as new alpha drops in, I will check it out. So I will not spend any more time to think about "why is there no new alpha", but just going to enjoy other stuff.

I would suspect good intentions clashed with reality. If you are a developer yourself you probably already know the only safe way to get faster updates while developing lots of big and small features: Use a revision control system and put every new feature in its own branch.

Now in theory that is all you need. In practice things are not so easy. Features sometimes depend on other lower-level features.  And some devs just can't adapt and always forget to make new branches for new features. And invariably the biggest features are also the ones everyone wants to be in the new alpha.

Everything just guessing by the way, I don't have any more knowledge about internal stuff than you.

 

[Matt115]

Yes, but don't misquote yourself. You said you hadn't played in months and then logged in and noticed.....

My advice to you wasn't based on the months of not playing part of your statement. My advice was based on the you logging in again before the game is done part of your statement. That advice still stands: If there are in your estimation inexcusable omissions in the game such that you leap to the conclusion that the devs are lazy and that assumption leads to you feeling upset in any degree and ruins your appreciation for the game then refrain from logging in until you get the notification that it is out of early access. On the other hand, if you are interested in providing bug reports in a nonaggressive manner and without loaded assumptions mixed in as to the capabilities and work ethic of the developers then by all means log in, play, and report.

It's not absurd when the announcement of the work completed is from the art team. What is absurd is thinking that the entire TFP team is only working on HD zombie models. There are some working on those, others doing optimizations, others working on fixing bugs, and others working on new features and improvements of existing features. It is true that nobody has as of this writing worked on changing "house_old_3" to "Cooter's place" in the localization files. But somebody will when the time is right. And even though you can't see a picture of optimizations and bug fixes like you can of a new HD zombie model, those things are being worked on by the appropriate members of the team. In the meantime, it is nice to get updates of whatever is being worked on by whoever and since the game is still in development those who don't find the process inexcusable understand that sometimes they might have to read something like "house_old_3" until a member of the staff gets to that job.

No matter how much I may love the game, you are justified in your criticism of these decisions. Agreed. Thanks for your comments. You're welcome for mine. Public forum.

Look, I get that you don't like the favorable, forgiving, patient, and hopeful vibe of this forum. But you have to understand that this is the developer's forum and those who are here long term are fans and generally believe that the developers are competent and hard working. So when criticism is given it is best given with a respectful attitude-- this being their house and their party and all. Criticism is welcome, for sure, and even those of us who post here often have differing expectations and views than the developers. So we voice our dissension and give our suggestions for what we would like but simply leave insults like "lazy devs" and "too complicated for them" out of the post. 

If you want to call the devs lazy and then have twenty comments backing you up and piling on about what scumbags they must be living off all that money for years and inching along just to milk everyone for more...you can get that catharsis on reddit or discord or facebook. There are plenty of avenues for toxic conversation and insults vs the developers on message boards out there if that is what you are looking for (and viewing your post history it seems to be what you're looking for). Here, you get called on that behavior. I never discounted your actual criticism or denied that there are unfinished localization issues and that the healing perk is not working like it used to. I affirm those observations. I also agree that the development time has grown long in the tooth and the good news is that the development team feels it too. They are excited by two future projects and so are working hard to finish this one off-- hopefully to most everyone's satisfaction.

They are not lazy - I agree with you. But 2 new projects? this rly bad idea. This is bad for cd projekt or CI . TFP is small studio. Making a few project at this same time is good for EA or SEGA ( well prop for saga - they can use assest from previouse games.) Even Call of duty is creating by 3 studios -  1 game one studio ( with small examples sometimes even 3 was working one game) . In Poland we have for example for example TV GRY channel and TFP have opinion that they make game forever and can't go even to beta. So another 2 project in my opionion can be PR mistake. What I suggest? Just  make alpha 20 last alpha , make 2 - 3 beta in 3 years and then - 1.0 .

And only then started making new idea. Ofc have ideas for future is good , but first just end with one game . Or do something like with Conan Exiles - alpha 20 change into 1.0 - do 2 big 5 $ DLC and start making something new

In my opinion make something like 7dtd with diffrent setting can make a profit - for example. Fantasy - some mechanic can just be pasted. Zombies in both games etc.  

Another idea could be something like A plague tale or  Paradise lost (  NOT A POSTAL DLC I MEAN ALTWW2 GAME) - 2 teens try go somewhere in 7dtd universum. It will allow to save time to making assets and some animations right?

 

[Roland]

I check out other games or mods and as soon as new alpha drops in, I will check it out. So I will not spend any more time to think about "why is there no new alpha", but just going to enjoy other stuff.

Smart! There is so much to enjoy out there that there is plenty to keep us occupied between updates. It's a much happier and fulfilling attitude than just burning out on A19 and getting angry about it.

 

[Roland]

They are not lazy - I agree with you. But 2 new projects? this rly bad idea. This is bad for cd projekt or CI . TFP is small studio. Making a few project at this same time is good for EA or SEGA ( well prop for saga - they can use assest from previouse games.) Even Call of duty is creating by 3 studios -  1 game one studio ( with small examples sometimes even 3 was working one game) . In Poland we have for example for example TV GRY channel and TFP have opinion that they make game forever and can't go even to beta. So another 2 project in my opionion can be PR mistake. What I suggest? Just  make alpha 20 last alpha , make 2 - 3 beta in 3 years and then - 1.0 .

And only then started making new idea. Ofc have ideas for future is good , but first just end with one game . Or do something like with Conan Exiles - alpha 20 change into 1.0 - do 2 big 5 $ DLC and start making something new

In my opinion make something like 7dtd with diffrent setting can make a profit - for example. Fantasy - some mechanic can just be pasted. Zombies in both games etc.  

Another idea could be something like A plague tale or  Paradise lost (  NOT A POSTAL DLC I MEAN ALTWW2 GAME) - 2 teens try go somewhere in 7dtd universum. It will allow to save time to making assets and some animations right?

The next projects are just in the planning and concept phase-- getting the roadmap organized and doing art. There isn't a single programmer being pulled from 7 Days to Die to work on any next project. But I suspect that as we get closer that might start happening to some degree. Think about it: If TFP does nothing at all to begin the process of their next game until after they are completely done with 7 Days to Die then the gap between the release of 7 Days and the release of their next game will be too long. They are planning and organizing themselves well to be able to have another game out on Early Access as quickly as they can. They don't want a year and a half gap between games.

As for the size of their studio, don't worry about it. They hire people as needed. They have the funds to hire and manage enough people to do what needs to be done. From what I've seen of the next projects, any negative PR that might be generated by those who are outraged that TFP would dare to start thinking about their next game before this one is done will be swallowed up in the massive hype once the announcement with details for these next games is released. These will be shutup-and-take-my-money titles.

 

[meganoth]

They are not lazy - I agree with you. But 2 new projects? this rly bad idea. This is bad for cd projekt or CI . TFP is small studio. Making a few project at this same time is good for EA or SEGA ( well prop for saga - they can use assest from previouse games.) Even Call of duty is creating by 3 studios -  1 game one studio ( with small examples sometimes even 3 was working one game) . In Poland we have for example for example TV GRY channel and TFP have opinion that they make game forever and can't go even to beta. So another 2 project in my opionion can be PR mistake. What I suggest? Just  make alpha 20 last alpha , make 2 - 3 beta in 3 years and then - 1.0 .

And only then started making new idea. Ofc have ideas for future is good , but first just end with one game . Or do something like with Conan Exiles - alpha 20 change into 1.0 - do 2 big 5 $ DLC and start making something new

In my opinion make something like 7dtd with diffrent setting can make a profit - for example. Fantasy - some mechanic can just be pasted. Zombies in both games etc.  

Another idea could be something like A plague tale or  Paradise lost (  NOT A POSTAL DLC I MEAN ALTWW2 GAME) - 2 teens try go somewhere in 7dtd universum. It will allow to save time to making assets and some animations right?

You listed some game companies who (to the public) only work on one title at a time. Are you really sure CD Project wasn't doing some cyberproject while finishing the witcher? Did the whole development team of CD Project work exclusively on the witcher card game?

I give you two companies who do it very much like TFP and pipeline their development: InXile and Obsidian.

Pipelining means that the game designers already work on a new project when their tasks on the older project are practically finished. In the next phase graphics artists for example change over when everything has been drawn that will be used in the older project. Meanwhile programmers and some other people like level designers still finish up the older project and mainly fix bugs or polish balance.

 

[Matt115]

The next projects are just in the planning and concept phase-- getting the roadmap organized and doing art. There isn't a single programmer being pulled from 7 Days to Die to work on any next project. But I suspect that as we get closer that might start happening to some degree. Think about it: If TFP does nothing at all to begin the process of their next game until after they are completely done with 7 Days to Die then the gap between the release of 7 Days and the release of their next game will be too long. They are planning and organizing themselves well to be able to have another game out on Early Access as quickly as they can. They don't want a year and a half gap between games.

As for the size of their studio, don't worry about it. They hire people as needed. They have the funds to hire and manage enough people to do what needs to be done. From what I've seen of the next projects, any negative PR that might be generated by those who are outraged that TFP would dare to start thinking about their next game before this one is done will be swallowed up in the massive hype once the announcement with details for these next games is released. These will be shutup-and-take-my-money titles.

That's okay , well if it a only concept phase they are "safe" . Well some studios tried make 2-3 games in this same time so it doesn't ended good  Well big gap sometimes is nothing wrong if they older games are still bringing profits. Well making a 7dtd "realistic" alternative for minecraft could be good option ( i mean minecraft gets still new big upgrades )

You listed some game companies who (to the public) only work on one title at a time. Are you really sure CD Project wasn't doing some cyberproject while finishing the witcher? Did the whole development team of CD Project work exclusively on the witcher card game?

I give you two companies who do it very much like TFP and pipeline their development: InXile and Obsidian.

Pipelining means that the game designers already work on a new project when their tasks on the older project are practically finished. In the next phase graphics artists for example change over when everything has been drawn that will be used in the older project. Meanwhile programmers and some other people like level designers still finish up the older project and mainly fix bugs or polish balance.

Yeah but Cd Projekt is pretty big and well have a lot of money right? Witcher 1 was made when they were Cd projekt red { red was part of cd projekt group and they have " monopoly" for distribiushing games ( long story well in Poland we were creating @%$#ty games most of them ended in small shops between cola and newspapers XD  ).

I understand your point. Ofc doing only "concept " is good and logical way . But making ( i mean programing , making models which can;t be use on both etc) is risky . I used to read a lot of gamers newspaper and sometimes was situation like : studio made a good game. They were trying to make 2- 3 ambitious games in next 2-3 years. And something go wrong and they became became bankrupt . Obsidian was bought by microsoft btw  but i have hope. And rly i don't "complain" like most i'm trying to say something constructive like : i know it is hard to make a good working npc so i "suggest" to make them in MMO -style in trades outpost . I know it is hard to make a good looking model of zombie and i know "clarity" in gameplay but make them in L4D2 or nza style could be good idea right because rng will and them more diffrent look . I know people can  be rly toxic so i'm trying to say what can be useful. Ofc i know i can be wrong but i'm trying to be construktive, not be guy who just complain ( btw sorry for grama mistakes a have some problems and i don't see mistake when i'm  writing  )

 

[Roland]

Pipelining means that the game designers already work on a new project when their tasks on the older project are practically finished. In the next phase graphics artists for example change over when everything has been drawn that will be used in the older project. Meanwhile programmers and some other people like level designers still finish up the older project and mainly fix bugs or polish balance.

This is exactly the model that is occuring.

 

[meganoth]

Obsidian was bought by microsoft btw

And Inxile. Both were bought by Microsoft.

 

[Maharin]

Thankfully, I have not been bought by Microsoft.  They own my gizzard, though, the jerks.

 

[Roland]

I would and I'm still waiting for their counter-offer. Apparently they are hung up on the word "bajillion" but I won't go any lower.

 

[Maharin]

Careful, that's not a legal tender denomination, except when referring to the national debt. 

 

[Matt115]

And Inxile. Both were bought by Microsoft.

I don't remembered this , Obsidian made kotor 2 , fallout nv and neverwinter so i remember them . 

 

[Yark]

If there are in your estimation inexcusable omissions in the game such that you leap to the conclusion that the devs are lazy and that assumption leads to you feeling upset in any degree and ruins your appreciation for the game then refrain from logging in until you get the notification that it is out of early access.

It is laziness though. If you've ever worked with a person who felt that the job he or she was doing was "good enough" despite not being done well, then you know about what we're dealing with here. The fact that the quest location names haven't been corrected doesn't ruin the game, but it does communicate very clearly that the development team really does not care. New animations are obviously significantly more complicated, so the art team could be excused for not having addressed missing attack animations... If not for the fact that they just spent time creating an HD model that nobody asked for.

Not going to quote your whole post, but I never made any insinuations about them being greedy or malicious with their earnings. Curious that you would bring it up. And as for social media, Facebook is for boomers and Reddit is for young men with debilitatingly low testosterone levels. So having said that, my occasional criticisms will be posted here exclusively. 

Hopefully after my next year-long break from the game, we'll see a little more effort and new content aside from localization and zombie model edits. 

would you rather have a good quality update that takes a year or a meh update that takes 6 months unless you understand programming and coding  you really dont know what your talking about it is alot harder than you realize

If I had a nickel for every time I've read something like this, I could buy a copy of this game for a dozen of my friends so they could all criticize it here with me. 

I purchased this game a couple years back and haven't seen significant changes. Maybe just a couple more years though!!

 

[meganoth]

It is laziness though. If you've ever worked with a person who felt that the job he or she was doing was "good enough" despite not being done well, then you know about what we're dealing with here. The fact that the quest location names haven't been corrected doesn't ruin the game, but it does communicate very clearly that the development team really does not care. ...

The quest location names show that this is unfinished software in development (in contrast to a service game for example). Unfinished features, unbalanced parts and bugs, that is EA (Early Access). Because with EA you can peek into development. But you don't decide the priorities

If you could play games from AAA companies before release you would see exactly the same or worse unfinished heap of software. Oh wait, just look at cyberpunk 2077 for a recent game that shows how a game might look in a state of development. Sure, that doesn't count as an excuse when a game was released, but THIS game is not released yet.

Whether you like that or not, whether you blame the rules of EA generally or TFP specifically for this, I don't see it likely that the devs will change their development model for you. I also don't think there will be any change in development speed as the only way to do so would be to hire lots of people, half of them for speeding up development and the other half to make up for the delay of getting all of them up to speed on the code. In software development this is done only in emergency situations.

I'm pretty sure you will still not be pleased by the progress when you come back in a year. Maybe you can even just copy your current complaint post and repost it verbatim.

 

[Maharin]

It is laziness though.

No, really, it isn't.  You're like the person that wants to criticize someone halfway through doing their job that they didn't do it the way you wanted them to and that they're not done yet... and you're not even their boss.  It's an early access game and you knew the risk and what to expect before you pressed the purchase button.  You have access to a lot of alphas so go back and play one released before you started playing to get the feel of a different game.

 

[JCrook1028]

I purchased this game a couple years back and haven't seen significant changes.

If you haven't seen significant changes then quite frankly you're blind or lying. The game underwent a huge change with A19.

we'll see a little more effort and new content aside from localization and zombie model edits

So you're complaining about localization not being done with quest location names and also complaining that they're doing too much localization work? Ok then..... troll detected.