Add, remove and add back in again. Do they even know what they are doing?

So cowboy got removed, plague spitter got added and now plague spitter is removed and cowboy is being returned.

Jars added in, get removed and are now being returned again.

How much time and money was wasted on the plague spitter? Same with now having to back track and add in features most people didn't want removed yet the team decided to remove them anyway but then after so much backlash and negative reviews on steam they are bring back certain features and zombies which of course delays 3.0 which according to someone is our fault that these delays happen.

I really wish the team would have stuck with what worked in alpha 16 and just built upon it instead of gutting almost everything that made this game good and turned it into the mess we have now where most PC players are relying on mods for a better experience and console players are stuck with whatever they got.

No clue how much money went into the other game but it looks like its DoA and adds another blemish.

For a game that was in early access for 11 years and has been in full release since July 25, 2024 it is insane that we are still missing so many things and the team still doesn't have a proper plan on what to keep and what to remove.
 
So cowboy got removed, plague spitter got added and now plague spitter is removed and cowboy is being returned.

Jars added in, get removed and are now being returned again.

How much time and money was wasted on the plague spitter? Same with now having to back track and add in features most people didn't want removed yet the team decided to remove them anyway but then after so much backlash and negative reviews on steam they are bring back certain features and zombies which of course delays 3.0 which according to someone is our fault that these delays happen.

I really wish the team would have stuck with what worked in alpha 16 and just built upon it instead of gutting almost everything that made this game good and turned it into the mess we have now where most PC players are relying on mods for a better experience and console players are stuck with whatever they got.

No clue how much money went into the other game but it looks like its DoA and adds another blemish.

For a game that was in early access for 11 years and has been in full release since July 25, 2024 it is insane that we are still missing so many things and the team still doesn't have a proper plan on what to keep and what to remove.
I mean i agree they should have stick with these guns but some stuff like but at times I do wounder what they are doing but we are along for the ride. I think the new things are great but I wish we had some old stuff still
 
So cowboy got removed, plague spitter got added and now plague spitter is removed and cowboy is being returned.

Jars added in, get removed and are now being returned again.

How much time and money was wasted on the plague spitter? Same with now having to back track and add in features most people didn't want removed yet the team decided to remove them anyway but then after so much backlash and negative reviews on steam they are bring back certain features and zombies which of course delays 3.0 which according to someone is our fault that these delays happen.

I really wish the team would have stuck with what worked in alpha 16 and just built upon it instead of gutting almost everything that made this game good and turned it into the mess we have now where most PC players are relying on mods for a better experience and console players are stuck with whatever they got.

No clue how much money went into the other game but it looks like its DoA and adds another blemish.

For a game that was in early access for 11 years and has been in full release since July 25, 2024 it is insane that we are still missing so many things and the team still doesn't have a proper plan on what to keep and what to remove.
It would have been great if people wasn't allowed into the development process.
But it's too late, now Pandora's Box has been opened... and here we go. :rolleyes:
 
People complained about the plague spitter model. So TFP changed it to the rancher or whatever they call it...and now you're complaining about that? They are listening to the community and adding back features, and yet you complain. If they would've stuck with A16 and went from there...yup, I'd bet there would still be complaining. Just enjoy the game, or don't. But these repetitive threads that just repeat the same spew over and over are past old. It's TFP's time and money being used here, not yours, so why do you care? It's their game, they are free to try out as many different features as they want. People seem to forget what exactly EA is.

Also, A16 wasn't as good as people remember, not sure why so many people are stuck on it. It was janky as hell. There were some good things removed from then, but the game as a whole is better now than it was then.
 
People may not remember, but the game has better performance now than it did before, despite having more content. How did that happen? Yes, through a zillion programming optimizations (which they continue to make, though with diminishing returns). But also by remaking all the character art to use less memory. There’s still e.g. a Tom Clark zombie visually, but it’s not the same model from the alphas. On a technical level, they didn’t keep the Tom Clark zombie. The “HD” zombie remakes not only look better, but the game’s performance benefits from the upgrade, because it’s more efficient.

That is to say, the old cowboy model wasn’t going to stay in the game whether they ultimately decided to have a cowboy zombie or not. Saving labor by sticking with the old model wasn’t on the table. One might say they swung for the fences with the plague spitter and frost claw, since they had to make new art anyway, but struck out. So if you want to look at it as a progression from old cowboy->plague spitter->rancher, it may be that one of those steps was regrettably a wasted effort. However, the old cowboy->rancher upgrade was inevitable. It had to be old cowboy->something.
 
why so many people are stuck on it.
I liked it from the skill freedom propestive, wildlife, difficulty-ish there was some bs, freedom of loot and random chances.

Alpha 16 has some stupid stuff and it was clunky but tbh the game is still clunky.

If 7dtd had the skill system of alpha 16 and the looting, wildlife changes now I would be happy . Not even LBD hell i would be happy if they had it like prebuilds mod. I finally got to play a bit at my brother's and it was So nice it was amazing even. My BIGGEST issue with 7dtd is classes atm
 
So cowboy got removed, plague spitter got added and now plague spitter is removed and cowboy is being returned.

Jars added in, get removed and are now being returned again.

How much time and money was wasted on the plague spitter? Same with now having to back track and add in features most people didn't want removed yet the team decided to remove them anyway but then after so much backlash and negative reviews on steam they are bring back certain features and zombies which of course delays 3.0 which according to someone is our fault that these delays happen.

I really wish the team would have stuck with what worked in alpha 16 and just built upon it instead of gutting almost everything that made this game good and turned it into the mess we have now where most PC players are relying on mods for a better experience and console players are stuck with whatever they got.

No clue how much money went into the other game but it looks like its DoA and adds another blemish.

For a game that was in early access for 11 years and has been in full release since July 25, 2024 it is insane that we are still missing so many things and the team still doesn't have a proper plan on what to keep and what to remove.
No where did they say it was the players faults only an idiot would believe that rubbish.

Alpha 16 sucked . And that a16 mod that is out isn't even a16 lol .
 
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For me
B4 a really simple premise, really simple, and it
was balanced in the zombies favor always, not the players. For me it wasn't
about survival, it was about not dying as long as I could, and having the
conscious feeling of being under-prepared all the time. Going against
overwhelming odds. The hornet was the epitome of it, an extremely slow tank,
that followed you until one of you was dead. Formidable, but had a weakness,
Relentless, and had a quite distinctive sound, like the toenails of the original
Wight. Choices were few and Joel had a heavy hand, when editing parameters.

The feeling was always do, or don't do, there is no try.

I'd have to compare it to Michelangelo's "not the turtle" David
and Jackson Pollock any painting. Both are sought after, both have their
merits and value. But one is simple, and one is at the opposite end of the
spectrum. One inspires awe, and one inspires confusion until understood.

Simple/involved Plain/Picturesque Dark/Light Skurd/Not so much
Limited/Possibilities Visceral/Visual. All a matter of preferences and
adaptation. I like both, because, I got to see it grow up, and evolve in
real time. If Alpha 1 were first released today, I wonder if the sentiments
would be the same with the other choices that are available now.
 
So cowboy got removed, plague spitter got added and now plague spitter is removed and cowboy is being returned.

Jars added in, get removed and are now being returned again.
That is a very simplistic way to put it that doesn't really accurately fit what is happening. They did not remove the cowboy and then add in the plague spitter, and now are adding back that same cowboy. The plague spitter didn't replace the original cowboy. There were years between the models. The new model going in is a rancher wearing a cowboy hat but in no way contains any of the original code. The community complained that the Plague Spitter did not fit the lore and TFP agreed and created a brand new model. You trying to claim that they just brought back the old cowboy is silly.

When jars come back they will not be coming back in exactly the way they were implemented before. They are not simply returning the game state back to what it was before they removed the jars and added the dew collector. The new feature combines what we had with what we have now and is the result of community feedback plus the resources and development that happened in between. If TFP were to just revert then I agree that it would constitute a huge waste of time and money for them. But they are not flip flopping back to what was. It is a new game state coming out in 4.5 and in no way a simple return to what once was.

How much time and money was wasted on the plague spitter? Same with now having to back track and add in features most people didn't want removed yet the team decided to remove them anyway but then after so much backlash and negative reviews on steam they are bring back certain features and zombies which of course delays 3.0 which according to someone is our fault that these delays happen.

There was no waste. TFP still owns the asset and can use it down the road for any future game they create. As for the AI and behavior and animations, none of that will go to waste as they will be applied to the new model. The rancher will still vomit out bees so the new 2.0 feature remains intact while the community gets a character that is more immersive and fitting for the setting of the game.

The game has had a lot of experimental and partially worked on assets and systems and features removed. That is all standard fare for any creative production. Nothing that was removed is being returned now other than in name only. The empty jars are coming back but in a completely different way than they were implemented before. Smell is being implemented completely differently than it was before. It is not the same feature you might remember. Temperature, clothing, and wetness are all being redone and implemented in new ways and not just pasted back in the way they used to be. As I said, you are over-simplifying this. Only you know your motives for doing so.

Rick said words that could be taken as an explanation of what to expect or be taken as blame. He never outright stated that they are blaming the community for further delays of 3.0. He did state that because TFP has chosen to respond to the feedback, that they would need to delay 3.0 features and that people should expect that. The fact that only some people took the words as blame but others did not shows that the words themselves aren't blaming. It is simply the perception of each person.

I really wish the team would have stuck with what worked in alpha 16 and just built upon it instead of gutting almost everything that made this game good and turned it into the mess we have now where most PC players are relying on mods for a better experience and console players are stuck with whatever they got.

I'm so glad they did not. The modern game is so much better than A16 was in my opinion. As for console players, you needn't worry for them. The reviews are overwhelmingly positive with most who played the old Telltale version very pleased with the new version. Of course, you can't please everyone so there will be some who preferred the old game but they are the minority. Most of them don't feel stuck with anything inferior even though you feel it for them on their behalf.

No clue how much money went into the other game but it looks like its DoA and adds another blemish.

Despite the efforts of a certain influencer's crew, it isn't DOA. Seems like you are one of those trying to push that narrative. Time will tell but people like you said the same thing about 7 Days to Die back in 2013 and 2014 but here it is today alive and strong and wildly successful.

For a game that was in early access for 11 years and has been in full release since July 25, 2024 it is insane that we are still missing so many things and the team still doesn't have a proper plan on what to keep and what to remove.

There is a proper plan. That plan is on hold for a few months while the developers craft a community update but it hasn't been abandoned. It really shows that people like you will never be happy. If they stick to their proper plan you castigate them for ignoring the community and for making the edits and cuts and streamlining necessary for their proper plan. If they agree to implement some things that the community has been asking for then you criticize them for failing to follow their plan.
 
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At least they will bring some nice feature from good old alphas back!

They are calling their new features by the same names: "wetness", "jars", "smell", "temperature", etc but they are not the same features from the good old alphas. If you are expecting the game to revert back to how those things used to play in the game you will be disappointed (or possibly happily surprised).
 
It is funny how people go on about how bad the game is and that it is failing, yet I've been seeing talk about how the New World MMO is no longer going to get updates, which will likely mean it will be shut down at some point, though they apparently say it'll be up for at least another year. That's an MMO and yet the Steam peak player count for the last month was around 50k. That of course doesn't count other platforms, but if you compare that to this, it says something about an MMO whose weekly peak is under 20% of this game's weekly peak and people are going on about how that game should keep getting updates because it is popular. Heh.

I've never played that game and probably never will, so I can't comment on if it's good or not, but it does show how you'll find people who think a game is doing well when it has lower player counts while other people will claim a game with higher player counts is dying. I'd say both are wrong. An MMO that can't hit even 100k players at a time isn't much of an MMO, while a game like this that is regularly in the top games on Steam is clearly doing well. Spikes and dips with each version release and between each version don't mean the game isn't doing well.
 
So cowboy got removed, plague spitter got added and now plague spitter is removed and cowboy is being returned.

Jars added in, get removed and are now being returned again.

How much time and money was wasted on the plague spitter? Same with now having to back track and add in features most people didn't want removed yet the team decided to remove them anyway but then after so much backlash and negative reviews on steam they are bring back certain features and zombies which of course delays 3.0 which according to someone is our fault that these delays happen.

I really wish the team would have stuck with what worked in alpha 16 and just built upon it instead of gutting almost everything that made this game good and turned it into the mess we have now where most PC players are relying on mods for a better experience and console players are stuck with whatever they got.

No clue how much money went into the other game but it looks like its DoA and adds another blemish.

For a game that was in early access for 11 years and has been in full release since July 25, 2024 it is insane that we are still missing so many things and the team still doesn't have a proper plan on what to keep and what to remove.
I liked the old plague spitter, but because people complained, they're going to change it, and now you're complaining about that too. I also want the old game mechanics to come back, but that doesn't mean that everything new is bad, as some veterans seem to claim. Player feedback is a double-edged sword.
 
I liked the old plague spitter, but because people complained, they're going to change it, and now you're complaining about that too. I also want the old game mechanics to come back, but that doesn't mean that everything new is bad, as some veterans seem to claim. Player feedback is a double-edged sword.
Completely agree. TFP try to appease those who complain, but it will never be enough.
 
Completely agree. TFP try to appease those who complain, but it will never be enough.
I think the problem is. Say we never had alpha 16 or 15 or any and the game came out at 1.0 with no alphas. People won't know about the cut content and people wouldn't complain or want it back. Thats the main issue i see.

For me all I really want is longer progression, random looting , sandbox settings, scrap gear, and more open combat class options.

Everything else is just ideas or hopes and dreams. Im greatful we are getting some old stuff back no lie I'll never complain about Jars or smell etc
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I liked the old plague spitter, but because people complained, they're going to change it, and now you're complaining about that too. I also want the old game mechanics to come back, but that doesn't mean that everything new is bad, as some veterans seem to claim. Player feedback is a double-edged sword.
Agreed I liked the plauge spitter it didn't look to crazy. Frostclaw is a different story tho
 
Agreed I liked the plauge spitter it didn't look to crazy. Frostclaw is a different story tho
Yes, I understand that the frostclaw is more of a mythical creature than a zombie, but the plague spitter is literally a zombie. I like the new model, but I didn't see the need to change it. If we're being picky, the zombie demolisher doesn't dress like someone from Arizona or anywhere else; he looks more like a terrorist, and I haven't seen any complaints.

For me, the colored zombies are worse than the Plague Spitter, but I think part of the hatred is the fact that it gets a little tedious because of its ranged attack, and some people don't like that. For me, it's fine, and I've never had any trouble seeing or killing them.
 
Yes, I understand that the frostclaw is more of a mythical creature than a zombie, but the plague spitter is literally a zombie. I like the new model, but I didn't see the need to change it. If we're being picky, the zombie demolisher doesn't dress like someone from Arizona or anywhere else; he looks more like a terrorist, and I haven't seen any complaints.

For me, the colored zombies are worse than the Plague Spitter, but I think part of the hatred is the fact that it gets a little tedious because of its ranged attack, and some people don't like that. For me, it's fine, and I've never had any trouble seeing or killing them.
Exactly a mummy is just a zombie without some Gatorade. Hell i think the plauge spitter would be a great just generic zombie. But I still love the cowboy one too. The demo is different cuz he went from looking like that rock dude from fantastic 4 with Riot armor too a EOD Solder and that was fine.

And I agree the colored zombies are worst. Green was bad enough but I allowed it cuz its similar to fallout but the orange and blue is so silly. If you wanna color them do it like blood red skin like plauge zombies from state of decay or dark black skin like the necromoths from deadspace.

I dont mind the plauge spitter in terms of attacks he's bugs dont scale with his level but they are a nuances at best. A pest at worst..frostclaws are alot more scary and more annoying but I like their challenges
 
Exactly a mummy is just a zombie without some Gatorade. Hell i think the plauge spitter would be a great just generic zombie. But I still love the cowboy one too. The demo is different cuz he went from looking like that rock dude from fantastic 4 with Riot armor too a EOD Solder and that was fine.

And I agree the colored zombies are worst. Green was bad enough but I allowed it cuz its similar to fallout but the orange and blue is so silly. If you wanna color them do it like blood red skin like plauge zombies from state of decay or dark black skin like the necromoths from deadspace.

I dont mind the plauge spitter in terms of attacks he's bugs dont scale with his level but they are a nuances at best. A pest at worst..frostclaws are alot more scary and more annoying but I like their challenges
It never struck me as looking like a mummy, but I understand why others might see it that way. To me, it looked like a very thin, decomposed guy wearing desert clothing.

I understand the green zombie—it's a way of representing radiation—but orange and blue? Why? Maybe history will tell us in the future.
 
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