Blake_
Captain Obvious
I don't agree on your occasional disagreement and respectfuly disrespect that you try to respect everyone as disrespecting axe grinders.
PC About Double clearing POIs and how to fix it
- Thread starter Blake_
- Start date
Actually the incomplete prototype of a good idea. You forgot the MP case where a) people do not arrive at the same time and b) need to be inside the perimeter for the duration of the quest.
I think it could work that the POI is reset at arrival of the first player. For the quest to start you would still need the exclamation mark or that all players have entered the perimeter (such an automatic quest start would need a noticable cue, audio or visual).
Anyone see a further loophole or problem?
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Kalen
New member
The only problem I can see is if its a POI you've left stuff at you'd have no way to go get it before it disappears.
For example, I, like many others, will leave a chest outside a POI for dropping off loot while I clear it out. I don't always empty it out after.... I come back for it when I get around to it. If that POI then gets chosen for a quest, a reset will delete what I've left. Currently, I'd just empty out the chest before I start the quest. But with this proposal, I'd either have to abandon the quest or forfeit whatever I've left in the chest.
Granted, not a common occurrence, but still something that would annoy me.
Because of possible resets I always put chests outside the reset perimeter but near enough to be reachable from inside the perimeter. Usually that means in the middle of the street, which also makes them less likely to be forgotten. Since I often put the chest there even before starting the quest (to empty the inventory of loot gotten in the meantime), this is doubly advisable.
So while it is a problem, there is a workaround that is even advantageous with the current mechanic too.
In some games I have a few subbases which I don't want to reset but can't secure with a bedroll. The idea by the3s0n1c is better for this case than Blake_s idea, because when you approach the POI you have a better chance to notice that you have to drop the quest than at the trader.
Easy to fix: have the perimeter be visually indicated by a box (like the LCB perimeter). That way you can wait outside for your party members to arrive before you all enter it. Its sort of how it already works anyway: people have to be close to the question mark to get it started.
Just have the chest placed outside the perimeter but still reachable from inside. Perimeter visually show as a LCB box.
In A18 dig quests had a bug where missing players failed the quest if one started to dig. Even after that bug was well-known we sometimes forgot. The chance that someone forgets, stops his vehicle a block too late or while waiting and cutting trees steps inside might be too high. Also I think as few artitificial icons and lines as possible should show up regularily on our screen.
Dig quests wouldnt require the visual perimeter displayed like the POI's ones. They dont even have a question marker anyways. So it's a different matter altogether. That's a player management problem.
The artificial bound-box of the perimeter would replace another artificial icon: the ? marker. Should only be visible for those with the quest and disappear once the quest triggered. The perimeter is already there as of now, it just doesnt show or acts this way.
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JCrook1028
New member
But each trader sends quests to the identical POI VERY often. And yes I mean exactly what I said, VERY often.
Seriousy? Is this entire thread based on your erroneous assumption that the zombies don't respawn as well? When is the last time you actually used the mechanic you're arguing against anyway? It has ALWAYS respawned the zombies.
Then if every POI you loot is already looted because the trader always points you to the same ones, then you're not double clearing it anyways, are you? What is even your point anymore? That you cant be arsed to go and get another quest because one of them failed?
It still seems statistically innacurate for me. If you're still stuck doing the same POI's over and over... A) this is a game design that needs to be changed and B) you're not progressing in your quest system to other tiers. And this, again, is if we're not talking about Tiers 4 and 5 exclusively.
HungryZombie
New member
I might sympathize with the argument against resetting POI's if the POI's layouts were challenging at all or if POI's themselves were rare.
There are so many POI's clumped together and each has a loot room with a chest so it's not like getting double loot from a reset is really getting you extra loot you couldn't otherwise get.
When the feature was introduced I did reset the POI to loot twice. I don't do that anymore because I realized it was not worth the time. Better to loot once and run back to the trader for another quest for more XP. I can get the same loot from any POI in the area so it's a waste of time to loot twice while questing.
Also knowing the "layout" of a POI is really no help to me at least. I just run though and kill everything on the way. Zombies in this game are not really challenging at all once you have a gun. I just assume a zombie is around every turn so I'm not really surprised when it is actually true.
I'm talking about vanilla settings with no mods of course. On vanilla settings I have yet to be killed by zombies inside a POI. Unless it was a zombie horde that crashed through the house from the outside trapping me. It's not that I'm so good at the game, rather it's the game is pretty easy on vanilla settings.
If you adjust settings or mod things then that's on you not the game.
There are so many POI's clumped together and each has a loot room with a chest so it's not like getting double loot from a reset is really getting you extra loot you couldn't otherwise get.
When the feature was introduced I did reset the POI to loot twice. I don't do that anymore because I realized it was not worth the time. Better to loot once and run back to the trader for another quest for more XP. I can get the same loot from any POI in the area so it's a waste of time to loot twice while questing.
Also knowing the "layout" of a POI is really no help to me at least. I just run though and kill everything on the way. Zombies in this game are not really challenging at all once you have a gun. I just assume a zombie is around every turn so I'm not really surprised when it is actually true.
I'm talking about vanilla settings with no mods of course. On vanilla settings I have yet to be killed by zombies inside a POI. Unless it was a zombie horde that crashed through the house from the outside trapping me. It's not that I'm so good at the game, rather it's the game is pretty easy on vanilla settings.
If you adjust settings or mod things then that's on you not the game.
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Boidster
New member
Ah, I see. At least you are consistent, I can respect that. I play co-op and so it's not an issue for us. I don't think it's designed this way to "keep the server from drying out", it's simply that a) the entire freaking world is destructible and b) the POI must be intact for the quest completion to be guaranteed possible. It's the live sandbox voxel world version of an instanced quest (i.e. magic doorway which transports you to a pristine quest environment). If a server is drying out the server admins ought to be on top of that with regular chunk resets.
Blake_
Captain Obvious
I wouldn't if the reset is not in front of my face and the content is good enough. Your example could be interesting if the 1st quest in that POI was a bombing quest that totally wrecks the POI, and the second time just a rubble pile POI or improvised npc camp POI that simulates ruins from the first explosion.
Randomization and gamey resets are ok as long as they don't feel cheap, boring or an overtask and of course you should NEVER see them happening in front of your face, like they currently are. My OP stands.
Roland
Moderator
I think everyone is on board with things not popping and disappearing right in front of our eyes. That is not even a debatable issue or at least I wouldn't mind hearing from someone anywhere who disagrees and actually prefers for such things to happen right in front of them just so I can say I've met one of THOSE people....
The question is exploit. Once I realized that you are actually doing the work to clear and explore both times I stopped thinking of it as an exploit. If two completely different layouts would definitely not be an exploit I really don't think that doing the same one twice is really an exploit. Otherwise you should avoid ever repeating any POI you have ever explored in the past. It is interesting that TFP spent time ensuring that duplicate POI's will never spawn within the same city and yet they allow it to happen through this mechanic. I suppose it was purely a visual objection.
My only real objection is that it is ugly having it happen right in front of you and using a gamey cartoon rally point instead of an in game character. They have spent a lot of effort trying their best to keep zombie spawning from happening right in front of your face and their efforts haven't been 100% successful but still-- they have tried. It would be nice if they at least try to clean up the reset so it doesn't happen in your face. Even if the rally point was a couple blocks away so intervening buildings and trees blocked the view. They could put a simple map marker on the correct destination once the rally marker was activated.
If a group can't coordinate themselves to being able to enter the quest boundaries at close to the same time from a two block distance of activation then they probably have no business continuing to pretend they're a team...
The question is exploit. Once I realized that you are actually doing the work to clear and explore both times I stopped thinking of it as an exploit. If two completely different layouts would definitely not be an exploit I really don't think that doing the same one twice is really an exploit. Otherwise you should avoid ever repeating any POI you have ever explored in the past. It is interesting that TFP spent time ensuring that duplicate POI's will never spawn within the same city and yet they allow it to happen through this mechanic. I suppose it was purely a visual objection.
My only real objection is that it is ugly having it happen right in front of you and using a gamey cartoon rally point instead of an in game character. They have spent a lot of effort trying their best to keep zombie spawning from happening right in front of your face and their efforts haven't been 100% successful but still-- they have tried. It would be nice if they at least try to clean up the reset so it doesn't happen in your face. Even if the rally point was a couple blocks away so intervening buildings and trees blocked the view. They could put a simple map marker on the correct destination once the rally marker was activated.
If a group can't coordinate themselves to being able to enter the quest boundaries at close to the same time from a two block distance of activation then they probably have no business continuing to pretend they're a team...
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Liesel Weppen
New member
I'd be fine if the poi resets as soon as you accept the quest. However not everybody is playing coop and in only one group maybe. So it comes back to, that someone might loot the poi before you arrive there. PvP players will hate it...
Roland
Moderator
For that matter someone could headshot you right after you activate the rally point and then go in and loot the POI before you. I'm talking maybe 30 meters away from that point. If someone can get in there and loot before you with a 30m distant activation point, they were likely going to do it anyway while you were standing in the yard.
I actually don't mind Th3s0n1c's automatic start suggestion, but I get the issues that was explored after the suggestion. Curious... could it work with two bounding boxes? A large one to reset at the POI and a smaller one inside of the larger one closer to the entrance that triggers the quest start?
Additionally, this more an programming/engineering question related to Roland's issue with stuff resetting in plain view. Could instead of resetting the whole POI it just resets what's required for the quest? So like just the zombies for clears, or zombie spawns and the hidden satchel for clear/fetches? That way if a person has already looted the POI and end loot then they are just doing the quest for the quest rewards? Sort of separate POI loot rooms and quests from each other.
Additionally, this more an programming/engineering question related to Roland's issue with stuff resetting in plain view. Could instead of resetting the whole POI it just resets what's required for the quest? So like just the zombies for clears, or zombie spawns and the hidden satchel for clear/fetches? That way if a person has already looted the POI and end loot then they are just doing the quest for the quest rewards? Sort of separate POI loot rooms and quests from each other.
Roland
Moderator
Unfortunately no. This being a fully destructible world someone could raze the building to the ground. POI's need to be reset in their entirety due to nobody being able to predict what might be built inside of it or what might be destroyed. If the building was blown up and then only parts reset it wouldn't work. The whole thing within the entire boundary must be fully reset.
Maybe gamer group therapy could become an emerging field, especially with all the new familiarity of zoom meetings...You just put a knife in the back of my co-op group
AtomicUs5000
New member
It's not a perfect solution, but I think it would be better (for now), that a POI resets when accepting the mission.
The mission selection should check if anybody is near the area. If there is, then choose a different one for the list. Some sort of similar checking must occur already because otherwise bedrolls/claim blocks would be ignored.
There would still be a tiny chance that the mission is ruined by another player before you get there. I don't see this as a problem. I see it as an opportunity for interesting gameplay.
I really don't see how this is any more complicated than the current system. I also don't see a real problem coming from this. If there is, please state.
The only thing is that it doesn't address the immersion-breaking POI resetting itself. This is where I think bandits can do some magic in the future.
The mission selection should check if anybody is near the area. If there is, then choose a different one for the list. Some sort of similar checking must occur already because otherwise bedrolls/claim blocks would be ignored.
There would still be a tiny chance that the mission is ruined by another player before you get there. I don't see this as a problem. I see it as an opportunity for interesting gameplay.
I really don't see how this is any more complicated than the current system. I also don't see a real problem coming from this. If there is, please state.
The only thing is that it doesn't address the immersion-breaking POI resetting itself. This is where I think bandits can do some magic in the future.
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Because the time between looking at the list and accepting the quest can be arbitrarily long there is the question when to do the proximity check: Optimally it should be done when accepting the quest and doing the reset but then it can happen that you want to accept the quest and the GUI won't let you. That would be confusing to the player, even with an error message.
If you do the check when the player accesses the quest list, there are small drawbacks:
1) In the meantime a player could have driven there, so the reset at accepting the quest can still be observed sometimes.
2) There is a small exploit possibility: It allows selecting quests by exiting the selection screen and a friend driving to the POIs offered so the selection has to change.
3) A dynamic list looks like a bug. There was a quest there, next time you look it vanished, next time it might be there again. Huh?
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