PC About Double clearing POIs and how to fix it

There's no lost opportunity if there isn't an opportunity by design, therefore eliminating repeating boredom and loot exploits.
Looting is boring in itself because it is the same over and over again. No matter if you loot the same POI twice or two different POIs. There is nothing creative about looting. You just kill all zombies and then search all the loot containers you find.

 
The respawn did in general. But for some people it obviously "feels" better if you double loot once you are there. I'm the same opinion as you, as i said i wouldn't do it, but my mate insistes of double looting, because he somehow thinks he "lost an opportunity" i guess.

I tried explaining him multiple times it is even a complete a waste of time looting a POI without a quest anyway, also double looting because you have a quest there, but he oviously doesn't get it. (except in very early game).

The respawn doesn't even allow to loot a town "one additional time", it basically allows you to loot a town endless. Even with playing on a nitrogen map with a very huge town and pois being mixed much better, quests start soon repeating on pois you already did. We even got 3 times the same poi in a row with T2 quests.
Exactly. Since double dipping is only a perceived advantage the only question is whether the game should be changed so the typical player feels it is balanced, even though it actually is balanced already.

 
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Or the answer is, if people feel an advantage even if there is no one and they don't get it even if someone explains it, let them do so. And people that are anoyed of it and aware that it has no advantage, simply skip it.

If it is changed in whatever way, there for sure dozens of people will stand up and complain that that "exploit" was removed. ;)

 
Or the answer is, if people feel an advantage even if there is no one and they don't get it even if someone explains it, let them do so. And people that are anoyed of it and aware that it has no advantage, simply skip it.

If it is changed in whatever way, there for sure dozens of people will stand up and complain that that "exploit" was removed. ;)
Yes, I want to kill Alduin twice, if you don't mind. Oh, and let me reset all the Whiterun inhabitants for that cabbage fetch quest, just in case someone killed the non-essencial ones that I fancied. I have the restraint for not killing them both times though. I'm a grown man. 

Reset all the random assassination quests to be on the same exact place even if I already killed the man. It's just a game. More freedom is better than no freedom, right ?

Now, If Whiterun got full of different creatures on reset, that would be awesome.

I believe you are starting to get that while repeating quests at the exact same place is unavoidable, designing the thing to be less repetitive could improve the game, as per my OP. Eliminating double clearing is good for the game. It wouldn't eliminate a possible "double clearing" if you cleared that POI before accepting the quest, but in that case it really does not matter .... it fits into the lore/theme if there's variety. For example:

I cleared it from Zds now there's bandits, cool. But not:

I have a quest here, here it is the quest marker. Wait, Imma go inside and explore, loot and kill everything and get lots of stuff, and then I will hit the mark for double goodness. Now THAT'S a problem.

 
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I believe you are starting to get that while repeating quests at the exact same place is unavoidable, designing the thing to be less repetitive could improve the game, as per my OP. Eliminating double clearing is good for the game.
Quests getting repetitive and eliminating double clearing are two completely independent things.

If you got even more anoyed by repetition because you still do double clearing additionally, simply stop double clearing. Was explained here now often enough that it doesn't have a reasonable advantage anyway.

And you will see, it is still repetitive, even if you don't double clear. Completely different question.

If you want it to become less repetitive, the are only 2 ways:

a) add more questable POIs for all tiers of quests

b) make the trader give you a quest per POI only once

But B would make the quests not endlessly and therefore again... you don't want to hear it... increase the value of double clearing again.

And A would just make it LESS repetitive, because even with more POIs at one you did all, and it starts from the beginning.

However, adding a threshold to the trader quests to not hand out same POIs in close time again may also help a little bit.

But however if you reach t5... there are not many POIs that are even t5 compatible. How many are there? like 6 or 8 different?

And the RWG-generated villages with 2x2 grid, that have only like 25 POIs, in theory provide a only a maximum of 25 quests until it becomes repetitive if you don't move on. (and the town generation of RWG and even more the randomnes of POIs is still crap, that's the primary reason why we used a nitrogen map).

 
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I have a quest here, here it is the quest marker. Wait, Imma go inside and explore, loot and kill everything and get lots of stuff, and then I will hit the mark for double goodness. Now THAT'S a problem.
That's not a problem in my opinion.  Let's say you start a new map and do some looting to get supplies and equipment.  A while later you are doing some quests for the trader and you get a house you have already looted previously.  Do you not do a quest at that POI or not loot anything due to the principle of hating double looting so much?  What happens if you get a quest for a POI that you have already done a quest at?  Do you not loot anything and just finish the quest and leave?  Or is it just looting the same building twice in a row and not looting it over and over while doing quests that you hate so much?  Just trying to figure out where you draw the line at multiple lootings.

 
I'm the kind of guy that takes everything apart for parts, breaks every door for the knobs, and generally takes way too long to clear every building lol.  
Me too. Then later game I rarely even need to loot and I can concentrate on building. When you have several thousand mech parts etc more really isn't worth the time.

 
I'm the kind of guy that takes everything apart for parts, breaks every door for the knobs, and generally takes way too long to clear every building lol.  
With that said, you shouldn't even take the word repetitive into your mouth. For some people pure grind is the best game just for the sake of heaving even more stuff of what they won't need ever anyway. I have no problem if you da that, but i still won't. 😛

When you have several thousand mech parts etc more really isn't worth the time.
And that's the point where you realize (or not) that you never ever will need thousands of mech parts. If i had 5000 mech parts and after building whatever i want to build still 4000 mechparts are left, i'd ask myself for what reason i ever looted them anyway :D

Just like people that go explicitly for hunting animals just to fill the third chest with meat, already having a full chest of best-value food...

 
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With that said, you shouldn't even take the word repetitive into your mouth. For some people pure grind is the best game just for the sake of heaving even more stuff of what they won't need ever anyway. I have no problem if you da that, but i still won't. 😛

And that's the point where you realize (or not) that you never ever will need thousands of mech parts. If i had 5000 mech parts and after building whatever i want to build still 4000 mechparts are left, i'd ask myself for what reason i ever looted them anyway :D

Just like people that go explicitly for hunting animals just to fill the third chest with meat, already having a full chest of best-value food...
Ahh but the first 10,000 or so parts I sold to get all my crafting stations/vehicles etc. I only spec Intel in late late game when I want solar. Early on it's better for my points elsewhere and my wrench takes care of anything from intel that I need.

 
Ahh but the first 10,000 or so parts I sold to get all my crafting stations/vehicles etc. I only spec Intel in late late game when I want solar. Early on it's better for my points elsewhere and my wrench takes care of anything from intel that I need.
Scrapping the hell out of anything and selling it for dukes just to buy stations and vehicles is also a valid way to play.

And those are exactly the people who will complain, if another "exploitable" mechanic will become fixed, because then they can't continue (fully) to play in their way they got used to.  😛

I usually also don't spec into int too. I do a mixture of buying stuff from the trader and hoping to find the books for that stuff. Still never had the need to spamloot and selling tons of crap just for dukes. I wouldn't even play the game if this would be necessary, because imho that is overally anoying. 😛

 
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That's not a problem in my opinion.  Let's say you start a new map and do some looting to get supplies and equipment.  A while later you are doing some quests for the trader and you get a house you have already looted previously.  Do you not do a quest at that POI or not loot anything due to the principle of hating double looting so much?  What happens if you get a quest for a POI that you have already done a quest at?  Do you not loot anything and just finish the quest and leave?  Or is it just looting the same building twice in a row and not looting it over and over while doing quests that you hate so much?  Just trying to figure out where you draw the line at multiple lootings.
Clearing it before by pure chance is natural and ok by me. But not by intelligent design. What you said is the only case scenario that can't be avoided in my suggestion and I'm ok with it, as long as there is variety in the future (first time clearing it there are bandits, next time zds, etc). But changing the quest to resetting on acceptance like I stated on the OP would reduce that and improve quest design, in my opinion. 

 
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Clearing it before by pure chance is natural and ok by me. But not by intelligent design. What you said is the only case scenario that can't be avoided in my suggestion and I'm ok with it, as long as there is variety in the future (first time clearing it there are bandits, next time zds, etc). But changing the quest to resetting on acceptance like I stated on the OP would reduce that and improve quest design, in my opinion. 
Of course spending time on that would mean less time spent working on new features.  At this stage in development, I'd rather have new features than a redesigned quest system where the main benefit is protecting players who lack self-control from ruining their own experience. However, even if Lathan had nothing else to do but polish questing, there are other aspects that I'd rather have polished first (better POI selection, less repeating selections, etc.) but that's just my personal preference. 

 
For me it is only the cement which is outside the pois im double looting and only in case I do not have a forge to produce it. As soon as I get a forge I just put 2-3 of em and off you go to the mines to dig for stone and melt it to cement, not big deal anywhere after. For the rest of the loot I prefer the traders rewards. For XP it is mining and building this stuff gives huge xp boost, I doubt you can farm so much with poi clearing as me digging and building.

 
Honestly, like many others here, I don't see a problem.   So called double dipping still requires you to spend the effort to loot a POI twice... which makes it, effectively, no different than looting 2 POIs.   In fact, you'd be better off looting it once then going back for another quest.  I'd rather loot 2 POIs for 2 quests than 2 POIs for 1 quest.

 
Suggestion: how about just tie the whole quest thing to players instead of traders/POIs? Lemme explain better: instead of giving traders the power to decide which POI the quest will be in, just have it tied to the player talking to the trader. That can allow for players not be given the option to repeat the same POIs over and over (if you already did.. I dont know.. old victorian house_01, you never get that option again) but still allow resets for new players/different players.

I know it doesnt fix the doubling problem, but it would shut down further exploitation.

One could say "but there are only so many T5's in the game!" Make them the only replayable option or you can only repeat them 3 times over different types of missions (fetch/clear area/fetch+clear in this order for progression)

 
Not that I'm really for or against POI resets, but.. the Trader could simply do a check to see if the POI has been looted when the quest is rolled, and if so just reroll until an unlooted POI is found. It can be as simple as checking whether the main stash has been looted, or a random combination of stashes, or even if the zombie closets are unbroken. And if no suitable POI is found then it selects the initial result and the player has to accept the POI reset.

Really the only pro's of POI resets is that on small maps it allows for a longer times on that map. On other maps it's just a trade off between speed versus exploration (some players prefer speed progressing, while others prefer the joys of exploring new places).

Personally, I prefer not to double dip but my cohorts prefer to. In MP it's way easier to stripmine a POI, since players can focus on one task (one goes to clear, the other follows behind loots, and a third immediately starting salvaging). So resetting is beneficial in that case because the travel time between quest POIs is more significant than the actual POI clearing time. So it's mostly a MP balance issue, which frankly TFP should be concerned with but that's such a pain to get right that I'm expecting that the game balance be focused around SP. And in SP it's not that much of an issue.

 
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