theFlu
Well-known member
It does, but it also hydrates 3x => only a third of the duration for the digestion buff for same amount of water.
PC A21: This game is hard (for me)
- Thread starter keesio
- Start date
True. I guess I thought Riamus was saying that it didn't give that buff.
Not that it's really reasonable to try and keep the digestion buff up all the time.
OneManStanding
Active member
I abandoned eggs and bacon as an early food source -- it's an interim source on your way to farming, but because the way farming unlocks it'll be quite a while before it'll be worth it. Just grilled meat and grilled corn - corn seems to be easy to find even if you're not farming it, both offer 10 fullness.
One point in animal tracker will help you find all the rabbits, chickens and snakes that would otherwise continue to live their happy little lives all around you. One point in huntsman increases the meat you get from the animals whose happy little lives you abruptly ended. And a point in cooking reduces the required ingredients to make grilled meat by one slice. Deer are common at night -- also daring to live happy little lives, so be sure to put an end to that. A pipe rifle or pipe machine gun will help hunt if you can find some 7.62 ammo, and a crossbow is even better as you can make stone bolts like they're free.
You said you're new to the game -- welcome, it's a lot of fun
That said, consider turning Horde Nights off in the settings for your save and just play the survival aspect until you're comfortable.
Remember to make a bone knife to harvest animals with - it gets more resources and is also a good weapon with a power-stab to the head on any slow-moving zombie. And the animal tracker works by stopping still, then crouching down for a few seconds, then checking your compass or map for the icons for animals living happy little lives; if you crouch down too soon without stopping the tracker won't work and those animals will continue to live their happy little lives. Any happy little lives being lived in range will show up as icons on your map, and as icons right in front of you in the grass as you get closer. Very handy skill. Be sure to check for animals any time you're out and about and you will soon have a box loaded with meat ready to be cooked.
One point in animal tracker will help you find all the rabbits, chickens and snakes that would otherwise continue to live their happy little lives all around you. One point in huntsman increases the meat you get from the animals whose happy little lives you abruptly ended. And a point in cooking reduces the required ingredients to make grilled meat by one slice. Deer are common at night -- also daring to live happy little lives, so be sure to put an end to that. A pipe rifle or pipe machine gun will help hunt if you can find some 7.62 ammo, and a crossbow is even better as you can make stone bolts like they're free.
You said you're new to the game -- welcome, it's a lot of fun
That said, consider turning Horde Nights off in the settings for your save and just play the survival aspect until you're comfortable.Remember to make a bone knife to harvest animals with - it gets more resources and is also a good weapon with a power-stab to the head on any slow-moving zombie. And the animal tracker works by stopping still, then crouching down for a few seconds, then checking your compass or map for the icons for animals living happy little lives; if you crouch down too soon without stopping the tracker won't work and those animals will continue to live their happy little lives. Any happy little lives being lived in range will show up as icons on your map, and as icons right in front of you in the grass as you get closer. Very handy skill. Be sure to check for animals any time you're out and about and you will soon have a box loaded with meat ready to be cooked.
Riamus
Well-known member
Hm... I would disagree on some of this.
- Pack Mule is not necessary and there are far better perks than that. Being able to reload while running isn't much use in the first day or two when you don't have a gun, so that's not a useful starting perk. Sledgehammers use a ton of stamina. For a new player, that's often too difficult to work with. A weapon with less stamina usage is usually a better option for new players - club/bat or spear are good options in A21 for new players. Healing Factor is nice but not necessarily the best option in the early game though that one is at least an okay option.
- For a new player, armor (at least cloth) is a good option instead of only clothing. Being slowed down for a new player is less of a problem than being able to survive being hit.
- Drinking murky water will harm your health and potentially give you dysentery. It is very easy to boil water. Do so. Don't drink murky water unless you have no choice (or have the helmet mod).
- Eating eggs uncooked is a waste of eggs.
- Explosives are not necessary for horde night.
You're right. I never look and forgot it included that. Thanks for the correction.
You don't want to eat corn. It wastes water. Grilled meat is fine but eggs and bacon gives you more value for what you eat. Not necessary but nice to not have to constantly eat.I abandoned eggs and bacon as an early food source -- it's an interim source on your way to farming, but because the way farming unlocks it'll be quite a while before it'll be worth it. Just grilled meat and grilled corn - corn seems to be easy to find even if you're not farming it, both offer 10 fullness.
One point in animal tracker will help you find all the rabbits, chickens and snakes that would otherwise continue to live their happy little lives all around you. One point in huntsman increases the meat you get from the animals whose happy little lives you abruptly ended. And a point in cooking reduces the required ingredients to make grilled meat by one slice. Deer are common at night -- also daring to live happy little lives, so be sure to put an end to that. A pipe rifle or pipe machine gun will help hunt if you can find some 7.62 ammo, and a crossbow is even better as you can make stone bolts like they're free.
You said you're new to the game -- welcome, it's a lot of fun
Remember to make a bone knife to harvest animals with - it gets more resources and is also a good weapon with a power-stab to the head on any slow-moving zombie. And the animal tracker works by stopping still, then crouching down for a few seconds, then checking your compass or map for the icons for animals living happy little lives; if you crouch down too soon without stopping the tracker won't work and those animals will continue to live their happy little lives. Any happy little lives being lived in range will show up as icons on your map, and as icons right in front of you in the grass as you get closer. Very handy skill. Be sure to check for animals any time you're out and about and you will soon have a box loaded with meat ready to be cooked.
Considering animals are very easy to find, putting points into animal tracker or huntsman is kind of a waste. You'll be able to get so much meat without those perks that you'll never use it all. Put perks into more useful skills instead.
7daysOfFun
New member
Hm... I would disagree on some of this.
1 > , the first time he collects a lot, packmule ist useful for this ...sledgehammer(the stone one) ist the only good weapon that can make a "headshot" at start...the woodbat is worst, u can use yout firestick to set the zombies on fire
- 1Pack Mule is not necessary and there are far better perks than that. Being able to reload while running isn't much use in the first day or two when you don't have a gun, so that's not a useful starting perk. Sledgehammers use a ton of stamina. For a new player, that's often too difficult to work with. A weapon with less stamina usage is usually a better option for new players - club/bat or spear are good options in A21 for new players. Healing Factor is nice but not necessarily the best option in the early game though that one is at least an okay option.
- 2For a new player, armor (at least cloth) is a good option instead of only clothing. Being slowed down for a new player is less of a problem than being able to survive being hit.
- 3Drinking murky water will harm your health and potentially give you dysentery. It is very easy to boil water. Do so. Don't drink murky water unless you have no choice (or have the helmet mod).
- 4Eating eggs uncooked is a waste of eggs.
- 5Explosives are not necessary for horde night.
2> at first you have bad condition..armour slows you down, without the perks mule you a slow turtle XD
3> i havent noticed nothing that does dirty water..u can drink 6 times and no bad stomach (or you drink1x and bad stomach) but when u dont have water, before diieng u drink the dirty water
4> when u dont have the recipe for steak and eggs, the cooked eggs are to expensive..run around 10min u collect 15-20eggs
5>when u dont have ammo, how u kill zombies? spike killed zombies = no xp points
but everyone has its unique style to play...he can test the tips we all give him
Riamus
Well-known member
Pack mule is a newbie trap. It is really not worth wasting perk points in as there are far more helpful ones. If you like it, go ahead and use it, but you can start making cloth pockets right away instead. You also don't have to carry everything. Put down a chest or two and collect the stuff later once you have the bike. Far better than using a perk point for something that really isn't worth much. This is why you won't find many veteran players who use pack mule and why when people ask on here what the worst perks are, it is always listed.1 > , the first time he collects a lot, packmule ist useful for this ...sledgehammer(the stone one) ist the only good weapon that can make a "headshot" at start...the woodbat is worst, u can use yout firestick to set the zombies on fire
2> at first you have bad condition..armour slows you down, without the perks mule you a slow turtle XD
3> i havent noticed nothing that does dirty water..u can drink 6 times and no bad stomach (or you drink1x and bad stomach) but when u dont have water, before diieng u drink the dirty water
4> when u dont have the recipe for steak and eggs, the cooked eggs are to expensive..run around 10min u collect 15-20eggs
5>when u dont have ammo, how u kill zombies? spike killed zombies = no xp points
but everyone has its unique style to play...he can test the tips we all give him
Cloth armor isn't really going to slow you down. Considering the increase to debuffs, you want armor, especially as a new player, or you are likely to rage quit after constantly bleeding. Armor helps to prevent debuffs. Once you are good at the game, you can skip armor if you prefer.
Murky water takes away 5hp when you drink it. That is okay if you are dying of thirst but otherwise you should be boiling it and drinking clean water or making that into tea (the better option) and drinking that. Murky water should only be drunk if you have no other choice or have the helmet mod.
Eggs should always be saved unless you have no other choice. Meat is very easy to get and you should eat that instead. Charred until you get grilled and then grilled until you get steak and eggs. Boiled eggs are really a waste of eggs. You will always have more meat than you'll ever need, but you will often be short on eggs once you start cooking better food, up until you are making better than the pies and cakes anyhow. Then eggs will start stacking up. But you will always have more meat than you need so it is a far better option.
You can easily melee zombies during the first horde night if you set up your base to do so. Explosives just aren't needed and you aren't likely to have anywhere near enough to last through the first horde night anyhow. If you like explosives, use them. But they aren't needed and there are often better choices for rewards. I did miss the "or ammo" in your post. Ammo I would agree with, though in most cases getting the magazine bundles in at least the first day or two of quests will make it far easier to get started crafting and that can be a better option for most people unless they want to spend time running around looting mailboxes the first few days.
As far as sledgehammers, they do the most make damage, yes. However, they are also the slowest weapon and use the most stamina. A new player is far more likely to get killed trying to use it than if they use a different weapon. Spears and clubs are far better for a new player as they attack more quickly and use less stamina. Even the Q1 stone spear will knock down a zombie with one power attack to the head for the first zombies you will encounter. You do that and you have plenty of time to kill them safely even if you don't knock off their head. But weapon choice is entirely individual. You use the weapon you like.
In my opinion, the best starter perks for new players are:
1) the weapon you will use
2) parkour - new players fall and get hurt more than veteran players and that extra fall distance (even at tier 1) can save walking around for an hour with a sprained or broken leg
3) daring adventurer - the extra money lets them buy whatever they need more easily and until they decide if they like using traders, that can help them to learn the game more easily
4) maybe miner 69er - this makes it faster to mine stuff including pallets, so can be useful for someone wanting to start getting those resources really. Healing Factor is another decent option as it will help them heal more quickly without meds and reduce debuffs times. For a new player, cardio can make them happy even if it really isn't a great perk. Your backup weapon is another good option as is starting to build up the ability points for whichever tree you want to focus on. This will also help your weapon if you improve the tree that your weapon is in.
Another option is to get two points into your weapon right away if you don't need it want other perks.
Also, it is possible to reset perks with forgettin' elixir, so they do have the option of choosing temporary perks and then removing them later so it isn't critical which they choose of they find they choose wrong.
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This, this and more this.
The struggle is what makes the game fun. It will not take long for you to intimately understand the games various systems to the point where you never have to worry about anything at any time and you start 'chasing the dragon' with this game. The game is extremely trivial for me at this point and that makes it less fun even if I still enjoy it from time to time.
Enjoy the road and forget about the destination. It will make the game last a lot longer and you will be better for it.
About progression and gamestage: You progress by getting XP and finding stuff, but you also get more difficult zombies when your level grows, and your gamestage depends largely on your level.
So it does not matter much if you play slowly, the game will adapt to you. It does not matter if you don't get the XP from traps or your level is lower than someone else at the same day. It is important that your equipment (weapons, armor, mods, workstations) grows in equal measures with your levels. And it is important that you have a place to fight the horde night and continually repair and upgrade it week after week.
So it does not matter much if you play slowly, the game will adapt to you. It does not matter if you don't get the XP from traps or your level is lower than someone else at the same day. It is important that your equipment (weapons, armor, mods, workstations) grows in equal measures with your levels. And it is important that you have a place to fight the horde night and continually repair and upgrade it week after week.
Ray Garraty
New member
Btw don't be afraid to invest in the wrong skill tree branches.
The grandpa's forgetit elixir is indecently cheap in A21
The grandpa's forgetit elixir is indecently cheap in A21
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Thanks everyone to all the great tips! They are extremely helpful and really helped me progress to the point where I feel more confident in the game!
Some updates:
First thing, I ran back close to the starting point and looted a book store that I remembered walking past on Day 1. It had a "two skull" rating so I avoided it. But I decided to take a chance now and it was definitely worth it. There were TONS of magazines and it was a huge help in increasing my skills. I learned how to cook better food, craft higher tier weapons, craft new items in general, etc. Amazing! Hitting that bookstore ASAP is so key!
With all the books I found, I was able to update my weapons and tools to a higher tier, craft a forge, and also cook steak and eggs among other things. I also am able to craft various teas that was recommended by several people in this thread. This was a total game changer! Shortly after, I aggressively pursued more Trader quests. Before I would do one and then take a break. And I would explore along the way, taking up time. This time I ran to the quests, did it ASAP and ran out of there back to the trader. Not only did I get more rewards but I got the option to take the bicycle that people were recommending. Another game changer! I just got the bike last night but I can tell how important it is!
I also found several armor pocket mods which are awesome in helping with encumbrance.
Finally, I did have another crack at a horde night. Day 14 approached so I decided to build my own horde base this time. I gave myself more time to prepare andI built a basic raised platform with several choke points to funnel them into for easier defence. I had better weapons this time and upgraded several spots to cobblestone blocks where I thought they would hack away on. It went MUCH better this time and I held out for quite awhile. I thought I was going to make it and had like two zombies left when my platform collapsed! Stupid me I did not reinforce some of my foundation columns to cobblestone so I guess one of the zombies just hacked away and brought the whole thing down. I was so disoriented from falling that I lost sight of the remaining zombies and the last one killed me. Not sure if that zombie was indeed the last or of more would spawn and rush me but it seemed like it was the last (I killed like ~20 of them). Oh well.
I do have a question about horde night... Is there some big reward you get if you survive the night (besides some achievement badge)? I'm already on day 19 now and got another one coming. I feel like trying to survive horde night is such a resource drain. I ran through a lot of my ammo and healing on the last one. And of course I wasted a whole day preparing a base and sank a lot of wood and stone into it. I'll be even more prepared for the next one and restocked my ammo but I also assume the next one will be even more intense. If you get some super reward for surviving then I would totally give it my all again but it you don't... then well... I rather perfer to conserve my supplies
Other questions:
After getting the bike, Trader Jen's location was given to me. She is SE in some burnt area of the forest near some desert area it seems. I currently don't have a real base yet, only just some little area right outside Trader Joel with a bedroll, some wooden chests for storage, and a forge. I was planning on building something a bit more permanant on a hill near Trader Joel where I can stick a claim block and have a workstation, forge, and some plants. But I'm wondering if I should set up my main base of operations near Trader Jen instead? I'm only level 10 so maybe I should stay near Joel for a while first and then build another base near Jen when I am stronger. Can I move stuff like a forge and workstation to other bases or to I have to build new ones each time? I don't see a way to move my current forge.
I have 3 perk points queued up and wracked with indecision on where to spend them. Basically my current build has points spread out with nothing past the first level. I was thinking about getting Parkour, lockpick, and Archery (I really like bows) but maybe I need to focus more on some of the skills I already have (like getting some stuff to a higher level like spear or barter)? Any tips? I basically play a stealth build and like to snipe with arrows to the head and use spear for melee. I will breakout the shotgun in emergencies for a strong enemy or the pistol when getting swarmed. Should I put some points into guns?
Thanks again everyone, you've all have been a lifesaver for me in this game!
Some updates:
First thing, I ran back close to the starting point and looted a book store that I remembered walking past on Day 1. It had a "two skull" rating so I avoided it. But I decided to take a chance now and it was definitely worth it. There were TONS of magazines and it was a huge help in increasing my skills. I learned how to cook better food, craft higher tier weapons, craft new items in general, etc. Amazing! Hitting that bookstore ASAP is so key!
With all the books I found, I was able to update my weapons and tools to a higher tier, craft a forge, and also cook steak and eggs among other things. I also am able to craft various teas that was recommended by several people in this thread. This was a total game changer! Shortly after, I aggressively pursued more Trader quests. Before I would do one and then take a break. And I would explore along the way, taking up time. This time I ran to the quests, did it ASAP and ran out of there back to the trader. Not only did I get more rewards but I got the option to take the bicycle that people were recommending. Another game changer! I just got the bike last night but I can tell how important it is!
I also found several armor pocket mods which are awesome in helping with encumbrance.
Finally, I did have another crack at a horde night. Day 14 approached so I decided to build my own horde base this time. I gave myself more time to prepare andI built a basic raised platform with several choke points to funnel them into for easier defence. I had better weapons this time and upgraded several spots to cobblestone blocks where I thought they would hack away on. It went MUCH better this time and I held out for quite awhile. I thought I was going to make it and had like two zombies left when my platform collapsed! Stupid me I did not reinforce some of my foundation columns to cobblestone so I guess one of the zombies just hacked away and brought the whole thing down. I was so disoriented from falling that I lost sight of the remaining zombies and the last one killed me. Not sure if that zombie was indeed the last or of more would spawn and rush me but it seemed like it was the last (I killed like ~20 of them). Oh well.
I do have a question about horde night... Is there some big reward you get if you survive the night (besides some achievement badge)? I'm already on day 19 now and got another one coming. I feel like trying to survive horde night is such a resource drain. I ran through a lot of my ammo and healing on the last one. And of course I wasted a whole day preparing a base and sank a lot of wood and stone into it. I'll be even more prepared for the next one and restocked my ammo but I also assume the next one will be even more intense. If you get some super reward for surviving then I would totally give it my all again but it you don't... then well... I rather perfer to conserve my supplies
Other questions:
After getting the bike, Trader Jen's location was given to me. She is SE in some burnt area of the forest near some desert area it seems. I currently don't have a real base yet, only just some little area right outside Trader Joel with a bedroll, some wooden chests for storage, and a forge. I was planning on building something a bit more permanant on a hill near Trader Joel where I can stick a claim block and have a workstation, forge, and some plants. But I'm wondering if I should set up my main base of operations near Trader Jen instead? I'm only level 10 so maybe I should stay near Joel for a while first and then build another base near Jen when I am stronger. Can I move stuff like a forge and workstation to other bases or to I have to build new ones each time? I don't see a way to move my current forge.
I have 3 perk points queued up and wracked with indecision on where to spend them. Basically my current build has points spread out with nothing past the first level. I was thinking about getting Parkour, lockpick, and Archery (I really like bows) but maybe I need to focus more on some of the skills I already have (like getting some stuff to a higher level like spear or barter)? Any tips? I basically play a stealth build and like to snipe with arrows to the head and use spear for melee. I will breakout the shotgun in emergencies for a strong enemy or the pistol when getting swarmed. Should I put some points into guns?
Thanks again everyone, you've all have been a lifesaver for me in this game!
There's no particular reward for surviving horde night. You'll generally get a large number of zombie loot bags, but that's about it. It's mostly just there for the challenge, but if you're not interested in that, you can turn it off (or make it less frequent) in the options. I've played with it turned off (and a mod for bigger and more frequent wandering hordes) and that was quite fun as well (and gave me more freedom in building things that's weren't intended for fighting the horde.)
As to moving near Jen, that biome (sounds like burnt forest/desert area) is more dangerous than the forest, so you'll have stronger zombies (and vultures, which are super annoying.) You can move their if you're looking for more of a challenge, but you would probably be better off staying in the forest for now.
You can move workstations by putting down a claim block, and then looking at the station and holding E. Be warned that any resources in your forge will be deleted if you don't empty it before picking it up (I think they might have changed it so you can't pick it up while it's got resources in it, but I haven't tried.)
For the perk points, generally it's good to focus on a few things before spreading out. If you like archery, you can for sure go with bows, though I will warn you they tend to not be super useful on horde night (the reload is too slow to handle the masses of zombies you eventually end up facing) unless you use exploding arrows. I personally tend to put off putting points into guns until I've got other stuff I'm interested in leveled, but I've got almost 2k hours in game, so I have a decent amount of experience.
An answer to a few of your questions
1. Hordes:
There is no special (big) reward for surviving a horde night, only the satisfaction to do it, and yes, it's becoming harder and harder the more your game stage is increasing and it's taxing time, ressources and ammo. In fact, it' kinda the main challenge of the game to get ready for the next horde. But, at one point, you'll learn how to manage it and you'll get tons of XP for killing tons of zombies and you'll get more and more of those loot bags dropping from dead zombies, which will probably cover the cost put on it.
So, it's an important part of the learning curve to discover how to fight those hordes. Personnaly, I'm not using my guns during day 7, 14, 21 but only melee and I'm saving all my ammo for the later hordes.
1. Hordes:
There is no special (big) reward for surviving a horde night, only the satisfaction to do it, and yes, it's becoming harder and harder the more your game stage is increasing and it's taxing time, ressources and ammo. In fact, it' kinda the main challenge of the game to get ready for the next horde. But, at one point, you'll learn how to manage it and you'll get tons of XP for killing tons of zombies and you'll get more and more of those loot bags dropping from dead zombies, which will probably cover the cost put on it.
So, it's an important part of the learning curve to discover how to fight those hordes. Personnaly, I'm not using my guns during day 7, 14, 21 but only melee and I'm saving all my ammo for the later hordes.
2. Trader
As a general rule, you'll have to set up your initial base as close to the first given forest biome trader as possible because you'll go back there every time a quest is completed. But Navezgane is not probably the best first world to play: trader Joel is in the middle of nowhere and there isn't an easy biome trader at the outskirts of a big town. I haven't been playing there for years, so I can't exactly know how it evolved, but trader Jen was also in the forest biome, near a burnt town, and it was more enjoyable to quest from her place than Joel's.
As a general rule, you'll have to set up your initial base as close to the first given forest biome trader as possible because you'll go back there every time a quest is completed. But Navezgane is not probably the best first world to play: trader Joel is in the middle of nowhere and there isn't an easy biome trader at the outskirts of a big town. I haven't been playing there for years, so I can't exactly know how it evolved, but trader Jen was also in the forest biome, near a burnt town, and it was more enjoyable to quest from her place than Joel's.
3. Perks
At first, pick your main mêlée weapon and use all your early points into it to increase it as fast as possible, to at least level 3. Your life depends on you being strong enough at smashing zombies with mêlée. The speed of stamina recovery will improve with each point added, and you will probably clear most early POIs using only bow and mêlée - but you don't need points into bow at first. Use any gun as an emergency weapon only, like running into a dog or worse. Hence, the best weapons to focus on, at start, are under strength (clubs and sledgehammers). Other weapons trees are for more seasoned players because strength also have shotguns and tools (miner 69 - mother lode) that are also really helpfull.
At first, pick your main mêlée weapon and use all your early points into it to increase it as fast as possible, to at least level 3. Your life depends on you being strong enough at smashing zombies with mêlée. The speed of stamina recovery will improve with each point added, and you will probably clear most early POIs using only bow and mêlée - but you don't need points into bow at first. Use any gun as an emergency weapon only, like running into a dog or worse. Hence, the best weapons to focus on, at start, are under strength (clubs and sledgehammers). Other weapons trees are for more seasoned players because strength also have shotguns and tools (miner 69 - mother lode) that are also really helpfull.
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Riamus
Well-known member
You will always remember that horde base collapse.
Bases up high really need reinforcement to be safe on horde night. Generally, you want everything to be cobblestone at the minimum as soon as possible for your horde base. Wood doesn't take many hits to be destroyed.Although you don't get a special reward for surviving horde night, I find it a fun challenge. After you know what to do, horde nights are usually easy. You will get so many bags from the zombies with ammo that you can usually recover around half your spent ammo, if not more as well as a lot of other types of ammo. And the experience you gain is very good. Horde nights initially will stop around midnight depending on your game stage but will eventually last until 4am unless you die. But according to Jugginator, of you are seen by a zombie after dying and before 4am, the horde will start back up. I haven't seen that happen, though. Also, be sure not to exit the game after completing horde night if it is still before 4am or you will have a horde when you start the game again.
You can move your base anytime you like. It can be useful to be near a large town instead of a small one for your permanent base. But staying at a smaller town isn't bad. I personally don't move bases until I have a motorcycle because that makes it easier to move all my stuff quickly. But it really is up to you. You will get the open trade route quests after each tier completed from each trader. That doesn't mean you need to move.
If you enjoy archery and stealth, that is a good place to focus on. Just note that stealth isn't always possible, so you might not want to get too hooked on that being your only play style. I would skip lockpicking as it really isn't needed. Parkour is very nice to have. You can avoid spraining or breaking legs if jumping down a large distance and can jump higher, which can be very useful. Eventually, with that maxed and a couple books read that help, you can jump off the top of a skyscraper safely, though you might take a little damage. Makes finishing a tier 5 quest nicer as you can leave right away instead of working your way down again.
As far as guns, they are really a great option in the game. Not using them is possible but much harder. If you aren't going to use guns, you can skip the perks. But otherwise, I would start putting points into guns around level 20-30 or so. It usually isn't needed before then.