bdubyah
Well-known member
Yeah, TFP should really balance their game around one person who thinks they should be able to just sit in their base and craft end game stuff all day... Sorry, complain again.
PC A20 - Is Crafting finally worth it again?
- Thread starter Sephiroth
- Start date
Yeah, TFP should really balance their game around one person who thinks they should be able to just sit in their base and craft end game stuff all day... Sorry, complain again.
Sephiroth
New member
How the heck am I sitting in my base crafting all day when I have to go out and mine, gather, collect and loot the resources necessary to craft to begin with?
opcorn:
bdubyah
Well-known member
Well since you're already out there looting, then you will find some q6 stuff eventually. If you could get them looting and crafting, you'd end up with too many q6 items. That's why you can't craft them. You know...balance.
Sephiroth
New member
Does NOT equal LACK OF choice. Try again.
Why should I be without Q6 if RNG decides not to roll the die and provide me with Q6 when I'm out gathering the resources?
Last edited by a moderator:
Darklegend222
New member
I'm curious to know how this is exactly a balanced problem? I can happily run around using level 5 iron knuckles and drinking beer or popping a skull crusher candy and bashing heads with an iron sledgehammer (which is arguably better than a steel sledgehammer due to that longer attack animation).
I've went out of my way to make mods for this game that allow loot to not be gated, birds nests to be plentiful, gun parts to be craftable, and quality level 6 to be craftable. Do I feel it's "unbalanced"? No.
If that quality 6 which can have 6-10 extra damage REALLY unbalances the game, perhaps you should get better at the game. If you notice, "unbalanced" isn't the proper term here, I believe the term your looking for is "logistics".
For instance, why should weapon parts only be scavenged? How was the very first shotgun made if they needed shotgun parts to make a shotgun, but it's literally impossible to craft the parts? Because they're "logistically" gating progression and forcing the player to scavenge, in order to do.. what was that term again? Oh yea, craft. Which is a massive part of the game.
You act as if you don't get perk points in order to craft that higher tier weapon or armor DOESN'T give you stats that make you even deadlier while using them. That's the trade off of not crafting Q6 items. You can craft any previous tier, AND get buffs for the items as well!
I've ran into times where I've crafted level 4 items and scavenged level 4 items immediately after, but you know what that means? I'm progressing ALONG with the game, which is the perfect place to be.
If you dislike it so much you should either quit the game, try out mods (which can really make the game a lot better), or put on your big boy/girl pants and realize that we all have differing opinions and the developers don't agree with Q6 being craftable and do what is needed to get them. Let's not throw logic out of the window here, it's perfectly balanced. If you're looking for 1 hit kills, lower that difficulty and have fun with a sandbox environment! Play how YOU wish.
Last edited by a moderator:
BFT2020
Well-known member
I did a playthrough when I could only use the items I crafted. I did not find it unbalanced (Survivalist). Sure I was not able to use any Q6 gear, but I found that didn't hinder me at all.
Any items I found in loot were scrapped for parts and rebuilt, then I sold my extra gear to the traders. Use that money to stock up on ammo and any parts they may have.
You want to craft Q6 gear and the game doesn't have it, that's fine to state and fine to ask; but to state that the game is completely unbalanced for crafters just because there are items you can't craft is not true.
Any items I found in loot were scrapped for parts and rebuilt, then I sold my extra gear to the traders. Use that money to stock up on ammo and any parts they may have.
You want to craft Q6 gear and the game doesn't have it, that's fine to state and fine to ask; but to state that the game is completely unbalanced for crafters just because there are items you can't craft is not true.
Sephiroth
New member
Tell me then. What is there in the game that crafters can craft that looters simply cannot find or cannot barter for from traders? I'll take a trade off for something else that's important to progression if its so important that Q6 cannot be crafted...
But u can now bloat sausage finger a pipe into machinegun now, by adding some glue to it. U dont even have to use machine parts. Apparently pipe has the needed mechanisms to send rounds into barrel and expel shot rounds.eXSe said:I don't think that they've messed with that 'cause it's a feature now, not a bug
The idea behind it is, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that you'll never be able to craft something top quality with your bloated sausage fingers that someone else has precisely machine tooled
BFT2020
Well-known member
Is that even a requirement in this game? Does there have to be something that can only be crafted?
theFlu
Well-known member
Sure, if one chooses to make a clean cut between "crafters" and "looters" and then require an absolute balance of "if they can't have it all, the others can't either." I fail to see either the separation or any need for the absolutism in the current game.
Sephiroth
New member
You have dodged the question. Please answer the question.
I'll reiterate, if its supposedly super important that Q6 cannot be crafted, then I'll take a trade-off to ensure crafters have something unique to them, just like Q6 is unique to looters, Acid being unique to looters, all schematics unique to looters, and so on. ... This game heavily favors looting and scavenging and has been neglecting to keep crafting in the loop aside for base building.
BFT2020
Well-known member
I didn't dodge the question, I just didn't feel any justification for answering it. And my response summed up my opinion well - there is no requirement that crafters should have something that nobody (miners, looters, etc) else can have.
You think one way, I believe a completely different way. No matter what I say or anyone says, the game to you is imbalanced because you can't craft a single thing that a looter can get by looting. Maybe they will bring back Q6 crafting, maybe not. We know that they are looking into level based crafting so Q6 might make its return.
If you truly believe that you should have the ability to craft a Q6 piece of gear, then mod the game so you can. If you play multiplayer, then reach out to the server admins and ask them to mod the game so you can craft Q6 gear. I am sure you can find players who feel the same way as you.
I will even help you out. You put the code below in a xml file and create a mod folder for it (hint, this file should be called progression). This will change all crafting recipes to now be able to craft Q6 if you max out the perk. This is just one of the beauties of this game: the ability to change it if you just take a little bit time and effort to do so.
https://imgur.com/a/H3v7t6e
Code:
[COLOR=#e8bd89]<config>[/COLOR][COLOR=#ebe7e3]
[/COLOR][COLOR=#e8bd89]<set[/COLOR][COLOR=#ebe7e3] [/COLOR][COLOR=#df897a]xpath[/COLOR][COLOR=#d9b180]=[/COLOR][COLOR=#7ea9c4]"//passive_effect[@name='CraftingTier']/@value"[/COLOR][COLOR=#e8bd89]>[/COLOR][COLOR=#ebe7e3]1,2,3,4,5[/COLOR][COLOR=#e8bd89]</set>[/COLOR][COLOR=#ebe7e3]
[/COLOR][COLOR=#e8bd89]</config>[/COLOR]Sephiroth
New member
I should not have to mod the game just for a QoL change because someone else feels it shouldn't be possible. Sorry, but your opinion doesn't really fly well with me, especially as you continue to dodge the question. Thanks for making me feel like I'm barking up the wrong tree.
Why should crafters get the short end of the stick while looters, miners, scavengers be able to get anything and everything the game has to offer?
Last edited by a moderator:
Roland
Community Moderator
TFP wants a super rare class of loot that is beyond what we as characters in the game can craft. It is the legendary level of loot and can only be scavenged. For now, that class is being filled by T6 level loot. In the future, depending on time, that class may be developed into true legendary weapons with permanent over-the-top mods attached that give them unique and amazing power. If that happens T6 will either be dissolved or it will be returned to the crafting progression line. If they run out of time and decide to keep it the way it is then the T6 tier will continue to fill the role of super rare beyond-what-is-necessary-to-survive gear that couldn't possibly be crafted by characters with the equipment they have.
Either way there will always be a tier of gear that can only be looted and can never be crafted in the vanilla game. The philosophy is that if you want to be able to survive, then tier 5 is perfectly up to the task for a high level fully perked player and as long as you find the schematics and the parts you can craft any piece of equipment that you need in order to be successful. The legendary tier is not necessary but just awesome extra treasures that can be found by those who explore and/or complete jobs for NPCs.
For completionists it should take 100s of hours to find a full set of legendary gear that cannot be crafted.
That is the intention behind it. Some people are going to disagree with that design choice and dislike the game because of it. Some will shelve it and others will mod it to be the way they like. What is never going to change is everything being 100% craftable. There will always be a tier (the best and most powerful tier) that can only be acquired via exploration and scavenging. That will most likely be true of their next game as well and the next one after that. It is a core value these developer have for the interplay between crafting and exploration and one they won't be budged on.
Either way there will always be a tier of gear that can only be looted and can never be crafted in the vanilla game. The philosophy is that if you want to be able to survive, then tier 5 is perfectly up to the task for a high level fully perked player and as long as you find the schematics and the parts you can craft any piece of equipment that you need in order to be successful. The legendary tier is not necessary but just awesome extra treasures that can be found by those who explore and/or complete jobs for NPCs.
For completionists it should take 100s of hours to find a full set of legendary gear that cannot be crafted.
That is the intention behind it. Some people are going to disagree with that design choice and dislike the game because of it. Some will shelve it and others will mod it to be the way they like. What is never going to change is everything being 100% craftable. There will always be a tier (the best and most powerful tier) that can only be acquired via exploration and scavenging. That will most likely be true of their next game as well and the next one after that. It is a core value these developer have for the interplay between crafting and exploration and one they won't be budged on.
Roland
Community Moderator
I'll just add that my criticism of the current design is that the loot stage ramps up the quality tier of loot too quickly and purple tier items are not rare enough. If I had control of the design plan, I would make it so traders never had anything higher than orange tier for sale unless we sold them our work and then it would only be until the next restock. Then we would buy gear in order to scrap them for parts to craft yellow, green, and blue.
Our loot stage would control what types of weapons we could find but the rarity of brown, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple would never change. Brown and orange should be common, with yellow uncommon, green rare, blue very rare, and purple ultra rare-- as in you might find 1-3 purple items total during a 100 day playthrough.
I very much agree with the design choice to make the very best tier a super rare treasure find via exploring and not craftable at all by the players. I think that currently blue and green tier items are much too common especially once gamestage/lootstage makes finding them less rare and this is what destroys the crafting game. If blue and green tier items were truly rare then the reason to craft them would be present more strongly in the game
Our loot stage would control what types of weapons we could find but the rarity of brown, orange, yellow, green, blue, and purple would never change. Brown and orange should be common, with yellow uncommon, green rare, blue very rare, and purple ultra rare-- as in you might find 1-3 purple items total during a 100 day playthrough.
I very much agree with the design choice to make the very best tier a super rare treasure find via exploring and not craftable at all by the players. I think that currently blue and green tier items are much too common especially once gamestage/lootstage makes finding them less rare and this is what destroys the crafting game. If blue and green tier items were truly rare then the reason to craft them would be present more strongly in the game
Looter, crafter? When I play the game I craft and loot, I don't change roles or something, there is no crafter class. The only 2 specialization that could be said to exist beside attributes are miner and builder, but even those are closely linked to specific attributes. Everyone crafts and loots. We also don't call some players reloaders because they specialize in reloading
DiegoLBC1
New member
Do you become a doctor or mechanic without learn?
So: How do you want to craft items without learning? How do you plan to learn without recipes? How do you plan to find the receipts without loot?
Crafting needs learn.
Learning needs recipes.
To find recipes needs loot.
So:
Loot, find recipes, learn, craft.
Or:
Loot, Find T6 items
Simple? You're not going to sit in your horde base and wait for things to fall from the sky.
T6 items: manufactured by a company with big "know how" and high technology.
T5 itens or below: handmade, homemade, without high technology.
I think that's correct we can't craft T6 items.
So: How do you want to craft items without learning? How do you plan to learn without recipes? How do you plan to find the receipts without loot?
Crafting needs learn.
Learning needs recipes.
To find recipes needs loot.
So:
Loot, find recipes, learn, craft.
Or:
Loot, Find T6 items
Simple? You're not going to sit in your horde base and wait for things to fall from the sky.
T6 items: manufactured by a company with big "know how" and high technology.
T5 itens or below: handmade, homemade, without high technology.
I think that's correct we can't craft T6 items.
Last edited by a moderator:
BFT2020
Well-known member
Sure, but I bet at least one person has been called a freeloaderWe also don't call some players reloaders because they specialize in reloading
Eh, if it makes you feel better, keep going down this path. Just because you feel it is a must have or a necessary QoL, that doesn't mean the devs have the same priority as you. Maybe by the time 7D2D is finished, you have Q6 crafting again; but then again, maybe not. It is the vision of TFP that will drive what the final game looks like, not my vision or your vision.
The way I figure it, you got two choices right now:
- Keep stewing over the fact that you can't craft Q6 gear right now. I find that to be unhealthy and takes away the enjoyment I have playing this game
- Come up with a way to mod the game to get what you want - coming into work this morning, I thought of a way to introduce Q6 into my gameplay without breaking the game. Now I am going to write up a modlet to do that over Christmas break and start playtesting it.
Whatever choice you make is up to you; though I have a feeling I am going to be playing 7D2D with Q6 crafting sooner than you.
Last edited by a moderator:
theFlu
Well-known member
How does a miner get a gun? Or grenades? Or mods?
How does a scavenger get a gun? Or grenades? Or mods?