PC A20 - Is Crafting finally worth it again?

There are plenty of times that I find a higher tier ite but has lower overall stats as the one I'm using. As BFT said above, even your crafted items will have varying stats. So there are times I don't use a tier 6 item over an good tier 5, even if you consider the extra mod slot, the lower item has better stats.

 
Sephiroth said:
What I don't get is why there is some sort of need to 'slow the player down' in a game that's designed to be a sandbox where the player can play however the player may feel like playing. That I don't understand. What is so bad about a player rushing to Q6 tools right out of the gate as opposed to having to take 30~60 in game days to get there?
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A sandbox game is not necessarily without rules and dangers and difficulties you have to master. A true sandbox has no rules at all, no goals, it is just a simulation, like Gerry's Mod. The closest you can get to that in 7D2D is using creative mode. Just spawn in your T6 weapon, maybe turn on god mode and have fun. But vanilla 7D2D is not such a sandbox. It has a normal progression where players can not get the uber-weapons on day 1 so that the enemies are matched to their equipment.

Now if your definition of a sandbox is violated by this and you feel there is not enough sandbox in 7D2D to call it a sandbox, then so be it. Call it a fake-sandbox if you want. 😉

Players have no fun if they are not challenged. Giving players the best gun of the game on day 2 (for example) would mean for many players that the game lost its fun on day 2 because there was no difficulty anymore and they can run around unchallenged by those shambling zombies. They would stop playing right there, but the game is designed for a much longer run-time.

Some players are intelligent enough to (for example) not take an overpowered item for a game if it is offered to them (because of a bug, or some promotion...), some other players would take it gladly and then wonder why that game is so boring.

 
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meganoth said:
Some players are intelligent enough to (for example) not take an overpowered item for a game if it is offered to them (because of a bug, or some promotion...), some other players would take it gladly and then wonder why that game is so boring.
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Woah!
Both of these should be fixed by the devs though.
It is not the players responsibility to limit himself to have fun.
If there is an "kill all zombies instantly" weapon, it is not the players responsibility to not use it.
And he has a right to complain.

I have seen this argument loads. And it always is the same nonsense.


The game gives the rules and boundries. The player has to do everything to play the game to its fullest (in a puzzlegame that means solving puzzles, in a survivalgame that means survive and in a sprotsgame it means scoring or whatever). And that means finding the most optimal path. Especially on the hardest difficulty.
If that is not for you, that is fine. You can play on easy and noone will judge you.
BUT if I tell you that exploit hordebases exist (at least those that are super easy to be constructed with like 20 blocks) it is the devs job to fix it, not the players not to use it.



I agree with the rest though. 7D2D is a good sandbox. Limits are just enough to need creativity, but still open enough so you never feel like you are boxed in in some way.

 
I never understood how this game gravitated form the advertised "zombie survival sandbox RPG" into a first person shooter RPG. Seems they've slowly castrated the "survival" aspect with a wooden spoon, update after update.

 
meganoth said:
It has a normal progression where players can not get the uber-weapons on day 1 so that the enemies are matched to their equipment.
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Never have I said I wanted to be able to pull out a so-called 'uber-weapon' on day 1. However, what I do want to see is more than a singular path to obtaining Q6 anything other than being forced to go out and loot. The game itself touts its crafting systems, but when crafting is pointless (As it is now), I don't see any reason to even bother trying to gather everything to craft say a pick axe or a pair of pants... Arbitrary limits like the one this game puts on crafting just don't make sense at all, and this argument of "Players have no fun if not challenged" is not good enough to limit crafting as it has been.

 
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Lerxst said:
I never understood how this game gravitated form the advertised "zombie survival sandbox RPG" into a first person shooter RPG. Seems they've slowly castrated the "survival" aspect with a wooden spoon, update after update.
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+1

We play exclusively multiplayer, but I think the combination of the OP quest system and the "super loot room" at the end of every POI has hurt it.  My wife and I used to love exploring the POI's around our area, just looting and gaining xp, a nice even progression.  Now you are hindered if you don't go after the quest xp because it's so OP, and when we go to explore a random POI, the loot at the end is often gone because some other player has climbed in and snatched it already.

How is this fixed?  Not sure.  Make loot rooms less "loaded" and spread it more evenly around the POI?  I mean who came up with the idea that there would be unopened wooden crates and locked metal chests sitting on tables in every house's bedroom?

 
RyanX said:
 Now you are hindered if you don't go after the quest xp because it's so OP, and when we go to explore a random POI, the loot at the end is often gone because some other player has climbed in and snatched it already.
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A lot servers I tried out had POIs that reset after certain amount of days.   Maybe you just never found them.  There are also servers just for PVP.   I played a lot of solo because all the bases that pop up out of no where, which A20 fixes!

 
Viktoriusiii said:
Woah!
Both of these should be fixed by the devs though.
It is not the players responsibility to limit himself to have fun.
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I was speaking generally to show that player themselves often don't know what is good for them. I actually witnessed a promotion for another game having too good items. And I nowhere claimed that was a good idea or that players need to make that decision, otherwise my argument that the game has to enforce limits would fail.

 
Sephiroth said:
Never have I said I wanted to be able to pull out a so-called 'uber-weapon' on day 1. However, what I do want to see is more than a singular path to obtaining Q6 anything other than being forced to go out and loot. The game itself touts its crafting systems, but when crafting is pointless (As it is now), I don't see any reason to even bother trying to gather everything to craft say a pick axe or a pair of pants... Arbitrary limits like the one this game puts on crafting just don't make sense at all, and this argument of "Players have no fun if not challenged" is not good enough to limit crafting as it has been.
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This was just just an extreme example of a limit as you were arguing for "the game should not keep me from doing anything I want". Now obviously if you really meant "anything" with your "anything" we would be in creative menue territory. 

Crafting being pointless is hyperbole as well, especially with weapons finding and being able to craft the same quality is often only days apart which makes crafting the weapon feel  less rewarding but actually is quite well balanced. With armor though crafting is in a very good spot because all armor slot recipes share the same ingredients. So it often happens that you can craft the one or two missing pieces in your armor set long before finding them if you put points into the armor perk.

We are also often crafting mods on our server and naturally for building a lot of crafting is going on. So the game IS a crafting game.

PS: **If** I were using your all-or-nothing attitude I would have to say this is neither a crafting nor a looting game, it is a trading game because solar cells can only be bought 😁.   

 
meganoth said:
Crafting being pointless is hyperbole as well, especially with weapons finding and being able to craft the same quality is often only days apart which makes crafting the weapon feel  less rewarding but actually is quite well balanced.
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Let me know when its possible to craft Q6 weapons. ... Oh wait, its not. Crafting is not well balanced.

meganoth said:
With armor though crafting is in a very good spot because all armor slot recipes share the same ingredients. So it often happens that you can craft the one or two missing pieces in your armor set long before finding them if you put points into the armor perk.
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Q6 Armor is craftable? When did that happen?

meganoth said:
for building a lot of crafting is going on.
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Now that I won't argue with, crafting for building is in a great spot, my problem is the lack of crafting anything at Q6 which doesn't exist due to whatever arbitrary reasoning that doesn't make sense at all. Try again.

 
Sephiroth said:
Let me know when its possible to craft Q6 weapons. ... Oh wait, its not. Crafting is not well balanced.

Q6 Armor is craftable? When did that happen?
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Thats the all-or-nothing attitude.

Sephiroth said:
Now that I won't argue with, crafting for building is in a great spot, my problem is the lack of crafting anything at Q6 which doesn't exist due to whatever arbitrary reasoning that doesn't make sense at all. Try again.
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No. I told you what reasons I assume to be behind this. 

 
meganoth said:
Thats the all-or-nothing attitude.
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No, that's just how I feel. Crafting isn't balanced if it cannot compete with looting and/or dealing with the traders. If I was capable of crafting Q6 tools, weapons and armor then I would believe crafting would be balanced. Otherwise it is not. That's just the plain and simple reasoning there.

meganoth said:
No. I told you what reasons I assume to be behind this. 
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So you only assume, yet you're a moderator of this board. Please get the Pimps here so they can explain their reasoning behind the unbalanced crafting here. Thank you.

 
Sephiroth said:
No, that's just how I feel. Crafting isn't balanced if it cannot compete with looting and/or dealing with the traders. If I was capable of crafting Q6 tools, weapons and armor then I would believe crafting would be balanced. Otherwise it is not. That's just the plain and simple reasoning there.

So you only assume, yet you're a moderator of this board. Please get the Pimps here so they can explain their reasoning behind the unbalanced crafting here. Thank you.
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I can't command them. I'm not even an employee of TFP.

 
Man, lots of entitled brats coming out these days. Q6 crafting was removed to make people keep looting and not be able to just sit in their base and make all the best stuff without having to work for it. Same reason all the t3 things are schematic only. Madmole explained that at some point, but I'm not hunting it down for you. You can do that yourself while you wait for a response you deem appropriate. 

 
bdubyah said:
Q6 crafting was removed to make people keep looting and not be able to just sit in their base and make all the best stuff without having to work for it
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I'm sorry, Grinding up the materials, spending perk points to increase my quality level when crafting, setting up a base and finding the recipes is not having to work for it? Try again. That's completely the opposite here.

 
Can someone point me in the right direction for where to post this. Whenever I try to generate a new world on 7DTD A20 the whole world is completely underwater with land spikes all over the map, or the game errors in the console and doesn't load into the world. Any suggestions?

Screen shot of error code in console https://ibb.co/CQvQPmh

 
Sephiroth said:
I'm sorry, Grinding up the materials, spending perk points to increase my quality level when crafting, setting up a base and finding the recipes is not having to work for it? Try again. That's completely the opposite here.
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You can keep going all you want, expecting some answer that you'll never accept anyway, but it doesn't matter. You say it isn't balanced, yet it's how TFP wanted it. So it is balanced to them, and that's all that matters. I don't know how you can say just because you can't craft q6, crafting isn't balanced. You're trying to separate looting and crafting when the game is both. You can perk into things to make better ones, up to q5, as well as other bonuses. You want q6? Get off your ass and find them. That's almost exactly how Madmole put it back when they first made that change. The point of it being a reason to keep looting so that they game wouldn't get stale quite so fast. Not saying it's all perfect, but allowing q6 crafting won't make it better. And other than the few random people here and there, it seems most people are fine with the change.

And there are several mods that enable q6 crafting. So there's really no reason to sit here whining when you could've fixed this supposed travesty already and could be spending your time playing the game instead of demanding TFP personally come answer you...

 
bdubyah said:
You want q6? Get off your ass and find them.
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I shouldn't have to go out and loot for it. That's the problem, and it seems you are oblivious to this fact. I should have a choice whether or not I can get Q6 from either looting OR crafting, not only one way to get Q6. Sorry, try again.

bdubyah said:
The point of it being a reason to keep looting so that they game wouldn't get stale quite so fast.
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The game gets stale only crafting it? Naw, the game gets stale constantly having to go out and search for @%$# when the option to craft is there, but denying me the option to craft is not the way to go. Sorry, try again.

bdubyah said:
And there are several mods that enable q6 crafting.
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Really? I have to MOD the game to fix a balance problem? I'm sorry, now THAT is just ridiculous.

 
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