PC A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Matt115]

The game works perfectly for that IF you role play it and not let knowledge of the inner workings cause you to meta play for efficiency. 
 

if you were a survivor and found a pipe machine gun you’d carry it around with you. If you found ammo that worked with it you would load it and use it. 
 

You would not toss the gun and save the ammo because you knew for a certainty that in about a week or two your gamestage would rise to the point that you’d be guaranteed to find an AK-47.

You say you want ammo to be scarce. If that’s so then use what you get when you get it and don’t horde it for the future guns your game knowledge tells you is coming. 
 

Primitive ammo to go with the primitive guns would only guarantee people stockpiling the good ammo. Because the new guns utilize the same ammo, you will use it up and have more scarcity. 

it depends which universe it is- 

in l4d universe well there woudn't be a pipe mg propably ( you know theory about green flu) but if i found mp40 in someone house i would use it until ammo will end or change on something more popular like m16 ( m16 is typical military gun there so ammo to this rifle and shotgun in the most popular).

in walking dead? it depends - horde of zombies? better run away pipe machine gun will be not accurate enough on open field, against single zombies melee weapons are better . against human? well everything is good enough if they don't know about you and they are near .  so in wdu guns are not so big problem as ammo - guns can be found in police stations , military post maybe , near a zombie who was survivor - in serial it was quiet often sitations when they have gun but no ammo

in resident evil movie universe? i will take it but not use for single zombie or even a small horde - i would keep it againt dogs , executioner or another mutant .

in a lot of movies and games of military games and zombie films there is a lot of corpses but small number of guns- well in movies - props are expensive so there is not sense to put almost everywhere guns near corpse and it games it have influce one ballance and performance - honestly in cod on gorod krovi , origins ( we see germans soldiers with guns in opening) , der riese should be every where guns lying on the ground but it would kill balance- why buy a k98 on wall when you can pick up it from ground .

what we know about 7dtd universe? - there is some kind of virus and military use nukes - that we know . 

what we can guess? let we make small analises -

1 time - it happens probably after a few months after day 0  but in time before a year. why?  it could sound funny but zombie clothes - more of them looks quiet new and this zombie stripper wear shoes - it heels will broke quiet fast if zombie going 24/7 after long time, this same sandals and flip tops and most socks will be destroyied too.  maybe it can sound fun but try run in flip tops - honestly you can't for long time.  next proof - cars have still windows and looks in good condtion ( they doesn't work because nuklear explosions create emp) and  a lot of building have electrisity too ( well maybe emp works on it for some time but something generate power so streetlights gets power but cars battery didn't) 

2 place : navezgane looks like texas so ( we don't know about law so we pressume it is this same as texas) - so guns are something common - we have a lot of guns shops , police stations and military camps and bases. even if guns shops were looted ( presumme that they have this amont of guns as l4d2 guns from whitaker's gun shop  because we don't see what is inside a guns crates - maybe 10 guns maybe 100 ) that mean a lot of guns can be found still. some surviviors died but they guns left with them ( or places when they were bitten), some cops died with guns some of them left in cars , and military have a lot of guns ( well we don't see any guns cabinet but we don't see a lot of military stuff which should be there like howitzer mortars  radiostations , rations )

ofc nuke could destroy 10% of them but: navsgane wasn't nuked but  borders of this state . proof - can be planes from outsides and secrets labs. this zone was cutted from outside so this could be place when outbreake begins ( or places when they tried find a cure). 

we know that we have big bandit group whose boss is or was Duke. they could make junks guns when before outbrake.

3.  character - well we know anything about our character so we can consider few theories : our character find pipe smg and 2 magasines

1. our character have amnesia - so he/she don't know about zombie what's going on. so our character could take junk gun lying near bandit corpse because and he/she is shooting zombies because afraid- change title 7 hourse to die because our character will die at night because will not create base .

2. our character it typical civilian survivor -our character survive here for enough time to know what is where so he/she would know were cities  shops ,police stations, military outpost are. So our character could take this guns and if he will shooting or take with it for rly dangerouse sitations until he get to place when our character can find better gun,  (well in police station should be few guns still - a lot of zombies in cities could kill a lot of bandits so probably our character can find it even on road but ammo could be problem there) but could find sport shop with bows or crossbown  maybe fireaxe, hammer or something like that and a. try to avoid groups of zombies b. eliminate single zombie with melee or bow

3. soldier survivor - he would know enough where military bases and how to find info- our character could now about secret bases - so our character could gun to kill zombies near base to get ammo and guns ( and rations)

Conclusions : our character could use guns in  critical sitation or in sitation when he or she will know he or she will get a more ammo or gun with another ammo type.

i know it is too long. my friends say i can propably have some mental ilness because i analise things too much

To sort-of add to this, and yes i'm afraid it's mod related...

I added pipe weapons to DF around A17/A18 and quite a few people appreciated the ability to actually USE ammo they found (only a pistol and hunting rifle type, but folks liked it).

So I think Roland is right and this will be well received in A20. I'm personally looking forward to getting rid of my crappy models.

rly i don't understand people like junks guns, honestly if people want a weaker versions of  civilan and modern millitary ( okayy m60 is quiet old but you know what i mean) i suggest add : black powder rifle as  big dmg but slow as hell hunting rifle , m3 grease gun as smg , gunpowder pistol as pistol and left blunderbass as it is. why? junk guns looks like something from cheap b movie. honestly in usa you can find a lot of old guns like from ww and from civil war period so it is logical someone find and use it. junks guns models looks rly good. and in mad max could be rly good. But honestly it not suit here. in days gone you can have old guns like 4 barrels shotgun or ppsh and it's work because well this have sense and is realistic. pls don't change 7dtd into mad max. i hope bandits will looks more into the division or  that BDSM guys from mad max with colour hairs or wear street sigh as undearwear.

 

[KhaineGB]

Because those pipe guns built out of random crap is EXACTLY what people WOULD build. Not black powder guns.

I got the idea of the pipe pistol from the Zip guns that are made in third world countries and are designed to use 9mm. They're super inaccurate and tend to explode, but they work.

 

[Matt115]

Because those pipe guns built out of random crap is EXACTLY what people WOULD build. Not black powder guns.

I got the idea of the pipe pistol from the Zip guns that are made in third world countries and are designed to use 9mm. They're super inaccurate and tend to explode, but they work.

ok. if game happens after 50 years after outbreake ok.  but in this same year that outbreake happen? nope. honeslty - if you know how to make a gun you can find enough parts to make a gun like sten, ppsh or mosin nagant even  something like volksgewehr. after 50? most guns will looks metro ak47 - but shotguns could be this same for example ( this USA not old metro when it's hard to find wrench in good condition). after 100?  you will gate something similiar to horizon zero dawn - so if it is not total wastland with still living mechanics and enginners like mad max in game i don't see any logical reason why should be junk guns in usa. if action of game were in australia - it could be logical even in first day, in russia ? yeah but there depends how much of russia was bombarded - if not almost halfe of gopnik will have ppsh tt mosin or dubblebarel and rest more modern guns. in demilitarisated countries like germans and poland? - tons of modern and ww2 weapons almost lack of civilian guns- pipe gun could be  create as something unsual like - someone  lost gun and is engineer at is locked in shop with mechancial parts. if game was setting in africa it could depends of which countries action is set- Isreal? nope a lot of new guns , kongo? yeah there it could work. 

vietnam? can work

china? nope it could be more like knife against few thousends ( rly china and japan are the worst countries for zombie outbreake)

new zeland? idk- honestly there is so small number of people if even army fail, they will kill enough zombies to let you kill rest of them using melee only weapons.

honestly maybe i don't see point maybe it is cool for most people but i honestly i was annoyed  as hell when i saw ppsh in ww2 on omaha beach with german soldier ( if this gun was with round drum and quiet rare it could have sense- ostruppen use random guns but in cod it is almost as common as mp40 and more popular in few location that  mp18)

 

[Roland]

Conclusions : our character could use guns in  critical sitation or in sitation when he or she will know he or she will get a more ammo or gun with another ammo type.

I could have told you that without going into flip top shoes....

The universes of depicted by other survival media doesn't matter. When I said roleplay, I only meant to act as though you were really in that situation without taking any gamey mechanics into consideration. In a real post apocalyptic world finding anything would be pure happenstance. Gamestage is not meant to be something you consciously play and manipulate for your benefit. It is the algorithm by which the universe of 7 Days to Die creates "happenstance" for us. It should be something in the background and not consciously considered by us-- just like right now. You don't check your gamestage before going to work or logging into the forums. You just do these things. You predominately take actions that benefit you the most for now. Even when you do things that are investments for future returns there is no algorithm to refer to that will guarantee you the results you want. You pray or hope or resign yourself. That's because the real life algorithm for how the real life universe works is beyond our comprehension.

In the game the algorithm is a simple rule and once known is extremely predictable. Therefore, for an organic experience that is more on the roleplay end of the spectrum, you have to ignore, "forget", and work to avoid calculating out your future based on these finite rules that guide the workings of the artificial universe in which you play-- just like you do in pen and paper RPGs. RPGs specifically differientiate "player knowledge" and "character knowledge" and if you want to have an immersive and fulfilling experience then you act and make decisions based on character knowledge and try your best not to let player knowledge influence you.

So as a player you know and understand gamestage (I'm envious of new players who don't follow forums and probably have no idea how gamestage works) but your character would have no knowledge of it. As a player you find a pipe pistol and some ammo and you know and can strategize that after another few hours of play you'll have something better for that ammo but as a character you would be ecstatic for anything that gives you damage dealing power at range and you would use it because who knows when or if you might find anything else.

 

[KhaineGB]

I could have told you that without going into flip top shoes....

The universes of depicted by other survival media doesn't matter. When I said roleplay, I only meant to act as though you were really in that situation without taking any gamey mechanics into consideration. In a real post apocalyptic world finding anything would be pure happenstance. Gamestage is not meant to be something you consciously play and manipulate for your benefit. It is the algorithm by which the universe of 7 Days to Die creates "happenstance" for us. It should be something in the background and not consciously considered by us-- just like right now. You don't check your gamestage before going to work or logging into the forums. You just do these things. You predominately take actions that benefit you the most for now. Even when you do things that are investments for future returns there is no algorithm to refer to that will guarantee you the results you want. You pray or hope or resign yourself. That's because the real life algorithm for how the real life universe works is beyond our comprehension.

In the game the algorithm is a simple rule and once known is extremely predictable. Therefore, for an organic experience that is more on the roleplay end of the spectrum, you have to ignore, "forget", and work to avoid calculating out your future based on these finite rules that guide the workings of the artificial universe in which you play-- just like you do in pen and paper RPGs. RPGs specifically differientiate "player knowledge" and "character knowledge" and if you want to have an immersive and fulfilling experience then you act and make decisions based on character knowledge and try your best not to let player knowledge influence you.

So as a player you know and understand gamestage (I'm envious of new players who don't follow forums and probably have no idea how gamestage works) but your character would have no knowledge of it. As a player you find a pipe pistol and some ammo and you know and can strategize that after another few hours of play you'll have something better for that ammo but as a character you would be ecstatic for anything that gives you damage dealing power at range and you would use it because who knows when or if you might find anything else.

Excuse me.

I'll have you know I check my gamestage on my phone when I wake up in the morning.

 

[Roland]

ok. if game happens after 50 years after outbreake ok.  but in this same year that outbreake happen?

It is not the same year the outbreak happened. The Duke built his empire and the Whiteriver rebellion began to grow after the outbreak. The Duke and his bandits are one way in which society has come back after the apocolypse. The little detailed clues you are pointing out about clothes and shoes and car windows are not intentional clues the developers have purposely included to help us figure out the timeline in a Mat Pat game theory.

If anything they are oversights and continuity errors because the artists who created the models didn't consider some of the things you brought up. They just modeled the decorations and clothing in ways that "looked cool" and didn't worry about whether such things would signify 3 months after the apocalypse vs 10 years after the apocalypse. In other words, you are reading way too much into the details you are hanging your theories on.

What's more....Madmole could come on here next year after working on the Duke and the bandits for A21 and tell us that the Duke grew to power and formed his organization over the course of 7 years following the initial outbreak and nuclear bombing when the player wakes up at game start-- and he may still even then decided to keep high heels on the shoes and windows intact in the vehicles despite the fact that those details don't seem to align with 7 yeas of attrition post apocalypse.

 

[unholyjoe]

@Roland fully agree, hence why i always stipulate i dont play by crunching numbers and i actually dont want them but i didnt create the game. but i wont play by being concerned with stats on a weapon.. i simply know the higher the weapon color for me means it will last a tad bit longer... i use rl experience with game weapons so i dont know how much damage they do nor do i cry if a guns damage is lower than i baseball bat.. just means i might find a good one later and yes i am a melee player as well... save the ammo for the bloodmoons when you are allone and need the firepower.

end result for me is, i enjoy the game when i am playing it my way and it doesnt affect anyone else as i dont want anyone in mine to mess with my style. if i didnt enjoy i wouldnt be playing it  for more than 13K hours.

 

[Roland]

16 hours ago, stupid said:

I hope in A20 they expand upon the weird noises at night. That deep pounding/fluttering sound is terrifying, and it's hard to describe what it is, which makes it even more disturbing.  I'd like to see more random noises at night that are difficult to make sense of. Maybe even some 20-23hz ambience. For some reason this sound frequency gives a really uneasy feeling. Here's a sample 

I felt uneasy at first because I couldn't hear anything at all after the 3-2-1. Then I decided probably only dogs and superman can hear that frequency so I felt better. Honestly, if they use that "sound" for nighttime it will be extremely peaceful for me...

 

[Matt115]

I could have told you that without going into flip top shoes....

The universes of depicted by other survival media doesn't matter. When I said roleplay, I only meant to act as though you were really in that situation without taking any gamey mechanics into consideration. In a real post apocalyptic world finding anything would be pure happenstance. Gamestage is not meant to be something you consciously play and manipulate for your benefit. It is the algorithm by which the universe of 7 Days to Die creates "happenstance" for us. It should be something in the background and not consciously considered by us-- just like right now. You don't check your gamestage before going to work or logging into the forums. You just do these things. You predominately take actions that benefit you the most for now. Even when you do things that are investments for future returns there is no algorithm to refer to that will guarantee you the results you want. You pray or hope or resign yourself. That's because the real life algorithm for how the real life universe works is beyond our comprehension.

In the game the algorithm is a simple rule and once known is extremely predictable. Therefore, for an organic experience that is more on the roleplay end of the spectrum, you have to ignore, "forget", and work to avoid calculating out your future based on these finite rules that guide the workings of the artificial universe in which you play-- just like you do in pen and paper RPGs. RPGs specifically differientiate "player knowledge" and "character knowledge" and if you want to have an immersive and fulfilling experience then you act and make decisions based on character knowledge and try your best not to let player knowledge influence you.

So as a player you know and understand gamestage (I'm envious of new players who don't follow forums and probably have no idea how gamestage works) but your character would have no knowledge of it. As a player you find a pipe pistol and some ammo and you know and can strategize that after another few hours of play you'll have something better for that ammo but as a character you would be ecstatic for anything that gives you damage dealing power at range and you would use it because who knows when or if you might find anything else.

i can agree with most but in life you can have choices and in some sitations " gamestage " too :  i will give few examples. 

1. one of my friend could choose punishment when he had bad grades : spanking or grouding. so he had a chooses in category - learn or punishment. if he spend time on learing he gets awards and didn't get punishment. Or decided to go with friends outside and get punished - he sometimes calculted what is better choose. ofc he doesn't know how many slaps with belt will get but he could guess - someting like playing in paper rpg - you can get the worst and the best resoults of this action.

2. master thesis - you can write this in one month , in one year on one week but - if you do  in short time you will make it bad (unless you are geniouse) or good. you can spend 1 hour per day and it can be bad or good.  but you can plan some things like - i'm going to work in next month so i will not have time to write this because i must learn on exam. ( well studies have "gamstages" as titiles this same school)

3. cars you can put in categories and some of them are better some of  them is worst. you have enough money to buy medicore  used car on sale - you can bough it , you can wait for better occasion choose bike or safe money and earn more for better car -  and you can say it have some gamestage - poor people don't have car , middle-class person have used car, manager have new car, company owner have class S car. well ofc you can go barefoot if you want. ( like using only fists in 7dtd)

 

[Matt115]

It is not the same year the outbreak happened. The Duke built his empire and the Whiteriver rebellion began to grow after the outbreak. The Duke and his bandits are one way in which society has come back after the apocolypse. The little detailed clues you are pointing out about clothes and shoes and car windows are not intentional clues the developers have purposely included to help us figure out the timeline in a Mat Pat game theory.

If anything they are oversights and continuity errors because the artists who created the models didn't consider some of the things you brought up. They just modeled the decorations and clothing in ways that "looked cool" and didn't worry about whether such things would signify 3 months after the apocalypse vs 10 years after the apocalypse. In other words, you are reading way too much into the details you are hanging your theories on.

What's more....Madmole could come on here next year after working on the Duke and the bandits for A21 and tell us that the Duke grew to power and formed his organization over the course of 7 years following the initial outbreak and nuclear bombing when the player wakes up at game start-- and he may still even then decided to keep high heels on the shoes and windows intact in the vehicles despite the fact that those details don't seem to align with 7 yeas of attrition post apocalypse.

Well errors happens always like second marine on doom cover , mistakes in names years etc and it is just normal. 

i will "annoying" here because well i like to write my thoughts - if duke and his bandits decided to gear up before outbreake the more economical and practical idea could be buy m16 , mp5 etc that create junk guns. or not - if for example "bad" governament banned guns so duke and his boys decided to overthrow the governament but something go wrong and after zombies shows up they became bandits.

and now more seriouse - well things like new guns models can people like or not but this is their game. and even 99% forum will hate new models but they will love them they will add new models.  and my point is :  most people complaing on something like "this gun looks like @%$# " or " this zombie looks " terrible and that's all - i trying to  give arguments like " i hate this guns because..... " ofc 90% doesn't care about it some people will don't agree with them and some of them will. at least i'm trying to be constuctive even if i have controversial opinion or idea

 

[dcsobral]

Here's something that I find disappointing in the current feature list is that there isn't anything on it that will change how the game is played. Maybe I got spoiled by older alphas, but I really miss it. Maybe the feral sense will provide it, but I don't have my hopes up from what was said about it.

I love that random gen is being addressed, new POIs is cool, the prefab-inside-prefab thing Shawn mentioned is cool, I love the new art, the shape system is looking like a dream come true, pipe weapons are welcome, but it looks like combat will feel the same, looting will feel the same and horde night will feel the same. 

 

[Roland]

at least i'm trying to be constuctive even if i have controversial opinion or idea

I'm glad you're here! Don't mistake disagreement with some of your controversial opinions with annoyance in you. You've been playing the game for years and years but only started posting here last year and I'm glad you decided to start!!

 

[Matt115]

I'm glad you're here! Don't mistake disagreement with some of your controversial opinions with annoyance in you. You've been playing the game for years and years but only started posting here last year and I'm glad you decided to start!!

thx , well if i must be honest i was checking forum for long time -  well @meganoth have one of most recognizable avatar on this forum XD well i have often "mental block" so create account on forum was hard for me XD well i know most things can't change but can be added in sequel or in diffrent game - maybe stupid example but rayman 1 was very funny and colourful , rayman 2 was dark and deppresing. cod 4 was typical action movie like fast and furoiuse but cod waw was like enemy at gate movie.  

few controversial ideas  can works good even if in the past was too much. - in detroid becoming human Spoiler you can let father spank her daughter end of spoiler - in 2010 it could make this game  banned  but in 2021 not. in l4d2 gore was censored in germany for example but in this year( or year ago) they change they law so it can be in game just like german ww2 symbols - etc so ofc some things maybe shoudn't be in 7dtd but in spinoff or sequel or in another game can be - like you play as teen girl in medival period after zombie outbreake ( a plague tale but with zombie ). But it is good to write about it now because maybe few idea can be usefull for their another games

 

[Rabbitslovecactus]

Thanks for the reply Roland. Kinda burst my bubble, oh well. Still a great game though.  

 

[Darklegend222]

I've tested the ryzen 3950x, i7 6700k, i5 4670k and am now testing the ryzen 5950x

The 3090 tests were done on the 3950x, which is a touch slower than your cpu (In 7dtd) I haven't personally tested the i7 10850k or the 6700xt, so I can only estimate. However I think your cpu should be able to keep a 6700xt fed at 1440p, I wouldn't imagine it would run at lower than 80-90% gpu usage. 

But that's just my guess based on benchmarks on those components, when you throw it in there let us know how you got on

I definitely will! Plan to get the card either Wednesday or Thursday, I'll update my comment on here if i can still find it lol

 

[Jost Amman]

Here's something that I find disappointing in the current feature list is that there isn't anything on it that will change how the game is played. Maybe I got spoiled by older alphas, but I really miss it. Maybe the feral sense will provide it, but I don't have my hopes up from what was said about it.

I love that random gen is being addressed, new POIs is cool, the prefab-inside-prefab thing Shawn mentioned is cool, I love the new art, the shape system is looking like a dream come true, pipe weapons are welcome, but it looks like combat will feel the same, looting will feel the same and horde night will feel the same. 

Looting won't feel the same at all AFAIK, since they've started adding tiered biomes and tiered loot.

 

[meganoth]

Here's something that I find disappointing in the current feature list is that there isn't anything on it that will change how the game is played. Maybe I got spoiled by older alphas, but I really miss it. Maybe the feral sense will provide it, but I don't have my hopes up from what was said about it.

I love that random gen is being addressed, new POIs is cool, the prefab-inside-prefab thing Shawn mentioned is cool, I love the new art, the shape system is looking like a dream come true, pipe weapons are welcome, but it looks like combat will feel the same, looting will feel the same and horde night will feel the same. 

Thats the difference between a service game and a game in EA approaching the finish line. Still there is hope that some of the features still planned will have an impact on gameplay, but that is just incidental.

 

[DanLW]

Thats the difference between a service game and a game in EA approaching the finish line. Still there is hope that some of the features still planned will have an impact on gameplay, but that is just incidental.

Interesting point.  So essentially A20 is a huge polish pass where the only gameplay changing things being added are the features that have proved difficult, and the rest is simply bringing the game up to 2021 (or perhaps 2022) standards.

I do agree, at this point stop making major changes to fundamental gameplay and get the game looking and performing nice and get the rest of the features in.  And hopefully with A22 water will finally be fixed and bandits will be in along with story mode.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Will A20 be possible to play naked?

 

[Matt115]

Will A20 be possible to play naked?

oh , our pervert is coming back. but answer is no