PC A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Matt115]

ohhh

yeah thats a Crime! its like how in Iraq how they have so many old cool Surplus guns and they mess them up by adding scopes. flashlights, and other modern stuff!

Well in my opinion some "modifications" can have sense like- M1 with diffrent magasines and full or semiload. or longer or shorter barrel like Gewehr 98 and gewehr 98 kurz.  But i pray for one thing : if somehow TFP will added garand or thompson or mg34 it will not have any strange mods 

 

[Weazelsun]

Some can't be in there due to generation reasons so.... no

some stuff like the sewer drain with the bear, The docks, fishishy, and some other things will not come

Yeah, I'm hoping with their improvements to RWG, hopefully those specific poi's will come. Hopefully. 

 

[BFT2020]

Newts from Days  gone?

Why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?

 

[Matt115]

Why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?

Well i will tell this in diffrent way? why not? We have a zombie bears , zombies dogs , so zombie teens will be logical too. Not to much but sometimes like newts ( maybe they are 1% of enemies like bears in days gone) or in no more room in hell ( 90% normal and weak zombies 2% kids/teens and 8% soldiers) . For example we have zombie children sometimes in walking dead ( for example 1 episode ) , dying light have special zombie children right? This have sense like weak almost decayed zombie or drowned. Small number but exist .

And it could be another type of zombie. 7dtd trying to be realistic like walking dead or dead island so there is not place (ofc they can change concept ) for something like tank from l4d2 , resident evil biomutants or cod mangelers, panzersoldat etc. Ofc something like witch can be placed fine this same way as boomer ( fat cop) or red head from resident evil or riot zombie or crazy zombie from world war z but jockey or splitter from l4d2 or gigants from resident evil ?  Nope

 

[ShellHead]

Why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?

Honestly, i think it’s raw edge factor.

the arguments are centered in “realism” but most folks will excuse a lot in ostensibly realistic games if they think it’s cool so i’m not really buying them. I think they’re mistaking “grittiness” for “realism” so that if something is darker and more edgy, that automatically makes it more realistic. 
at the end of the day, i think it’s based in the idea that their choices in media must be “taken seriously” and as such must portray darker and grimmer things to show how “mature” it actually is. That being said, i think all of that can be done well but most people do it, not because of what they actually want to explore in the work, but because they’re obsessed with not looking immature in their taste in media.

 

[Matt115]

Pfff. If I have to lose equipment slots, so should they! 

-Morloc

Rly would you wear socks taken from rotting zombie?!

But srl : i think he want to say they diffrent clothes for example departed women : black shoes, white shoes barefoot , top jacket or thirt , long hair short hair etc and these " parts" are mixed to create more variants on this "base"

 

[Morloc]

Yes...gotcha'.

I'm still losing slots.

-Morloc

 

[Matt115]

Honestly, i think it’s raw edge factor.

the arguments are centered in “realism” but most folks will excuse a lot in ostensibly realistic games if they think it’s cool so i’m not really buying them. I think they’re mistaking “grittiness” for “realism” so that if something is darker and more edgy, that automatically makes it more realistic. 
at the end of the day, i think it’s based in the idea that their choices in media must be “taken seriously” and as such must portray darker and grimmer things to show how “mature” it actually is. That being said, i think all of that can be done well but most people do it, not because of what they actually want to explore in the work, but because they’re obsessed with not looking immature in their taste in media.

i can't agree well : cod had edgy and darker ww2nazi zombies and it wasn't so realstic ( well it looks another indiana jones but without him and as game). it was a serial about zombies - i don't remeber it name  it was on netflix and there was half zombie murphy , crazy doc who loves drugs etc and each there was zombie inflant ( i hate them in game like crawlers in dead space ). So it isn't something edgy it just another type of zombie - they didn't put them in for example in l4d but i could be too much controversial from this period. But know we can place as 6yo in horizon zero dawn and robot dinosource can kill us. In plague tale we have Teens Amicia and her brother, they are eating alive by rats etc . In last of us Ellie is 14 yo and if i good remember can be killed by zombie. in 48 weeks after a girl at the end became zombie . So times has change and games too : they aren't brutal because they can. Ofc in dying light they are zombie children but there are only few and have sense because you can even find a preschool and  help survived childrens. So everything can be good if they are ballanced . In cod we had samatha, in bioshocks little sisters and in fear alma. So it can be done just it need thinking how to implement it logical. 

Small note i forget about kendo daughter from re2  and this bioweapon girl from re 7

 

[Matt115]

Yes...gotcha'.

I'm still losing slots.

-Morloc

<sigh> well you can't have everything. I wish get ol' combining weapons and tools but it will never return, we must just go forward and still remember about fallen ( well i know cutted but whatever i'm trying to be soo leader from movie) functions who left in the ashes of the past

 

[ShellHead]

i can't agree well : cod had edgy and darker ww2nazi zombies and it wasn't so realstic ( well it looks another indiana jones but without him and as game). it was a serial about zombies - i don't remeber it name  it was on netflix and there was half zombie murphy , crazy doc who loves drugs etc and each there was zombie inflant ( i hate them in game like crawlers in dead space ). So it isn't something edgy it just another type of zombie - they didn't put them in for example in l4d but i could be too much controversial from this period. But know we can place as 6yo in horizon zero dawn and robot dinosource can kill us. In plague tale we have Teens Amicia and her brother, they are eating alive by rats etc . In last of us Ellie is 14 yo and if i good remember can be killed by zombie. in 48 weeks after a girl at the end became zombie . So times has change and games too : they aren't brutal because they can. Ofc in dying light they are zombie children but there are only few and have sense because you can even find a preschool and  help survived childrens. So everything can be good if they are ballanced . In cod we had samatha, in bioshocks little sisters and in fear alma. So it can be done just it need thinking how to implement it logical. 

Small note i forget about kendo daughter from re2  and this bioweapon girl from re 7

Except that wasn’t the question, the question was “why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?”

edge factor and concern over looking immature is why.

the thing is most of your examples go to my point, people use kids lives in danger as a way to look more serious, every one of those games are supposed to be “taken seriously” and handle that seriousness with varying degrees success. Like i said, this can be done well but often isn’t because it’s usually done from a position of insecurity, either of the creators or the audience.

Also realism is different than being considered mature, there are plenty of works that are mature that are wildly unrealistic and lots of realistic works that are incredibly immature.

 

[Matt115]

Except that wasn’t the question, the question was “why do people want to kill kids so much in zombie games?”

edge factor and concern over looking immature is why.

the thing is most of your examples go to my point, people use kids lives in danger as a way to look more serious, every one of those games are supposed to be “taken seriously” and handle that seriousness with varying degrees success. Like i said, this can be done well but often isn’t because it’s usually done from a position of insecurity, either of the creators or the audience.

Also realism is different than being considered mature, there are plenty of works that are mature that are wildly unrealistic and lots of realistic works that are incredibly immature.

Question should be :  why do people want to put zombie children in zombie games.

And there answer is : because it is logical. In days gone you have newts , You need too kill them? Sometimes sometimes not it depends on sitation. That's why attacking witch in l4d2 is in most situation bad idea but is some of them is neccesary ( if she respawned in doors). That's way in re2 you don't kill most zombies - you need to saving ammo. So your question is only half correct . I want to add into for example executing a bandits to get better situation in city in mount and blade. They are kids in this game too. Most of them are just npc in cities. Want i could kill farmes with children? Nope. But if they decide to make a mount and blade 2 into game of throne when you do whatever you want to take a crown. You can execute lords so they children are dangerous too. That's why lord Tywin Lannister ordered to kill some children right? Or using them like "cards". So if they want to make a game of throne it should be option to be cruel as tywin or heroic like Robb. But if they decide to create mount and blade 2 in  something like "king Artur" kiling lords okay it fit but exectuting children shoudn't be a option. That's way zombie children can have place in 7dtd or world war z because they are trying to have "realistic " setting . But they don't fit in dead rising 4 or nza. 

I can agree - it can be matur without being unreaslic. For example painkiller - it looking very ... specific  i guess? And you can find skeletons, zombie crusader ( a lot of them were bad guys so it have sens.) bad scietntist( logical well a lot of doctors were bad) , drunkers ( i don't need to explain) , russian zombie solders ( this was rly controversial in russia) or... bad kids ( killer boy with knife and buring girl) in orphanage . Painkiller looks  ironical and serious in this same time - bad clown in park , prisoners in prisons, bad cop in riot. 

So it is neccesary how they implement everything in my opionion 

 

[Gazz]

Well i will tell this in diffrent way? why not? We have a zombie bears , zombies dogs , so zombie teens will be logical too.

That's an easy question. A bunch of countries flat out ban games with violence against children.

 

[ShellHead]

Yeah, from a business perspective zombie kids aren’t just something you throw in for realism purposes or shock factor. It’s either critical to what the game is about or you don’t do it.

From a content perspective, you still have to have a reason to make kid zombies and “it’s logical” isn’t really sufficient. There are a thousand realistic elements you could put in to a zombie game and not even get to kid zombies. Everything is a trade off, so you have to decide if it’s actually something you’d be interested in adding.

Do they play well with the themes and concepts the rest of the game deals with?

Would they be appropriate for the tone and direction the game is taking?

Just throwing them in is a sure fire way to make them either short zombies or gritty for the sake of gritty, which is my whole point.

going back to the original question, 90% of the time kid zombies are even brought up is explicitly for shock factor and oftentimes realism is used as a cover for that kind of lurid pandering. Don’t get me wrong, i have no issues with kid zombies in games, i have issues with adding things that would logically have a great deal of thematic and emotional weight in for the sake of looking cool and edgy. Do it right or don’t do it, it’s not something you throw in just because you think it would be cool or more realistic.

 

[Roland]

Just have the head of the radiated tourist sprout legs and attack as a head crab type monster whenever the radiated tourist gets decapitated. 

Or would that count as the radiated tourist's offspring.....?

 

[meganoth]

Question should be :  why do people want to put zombie children in zombie games.

And there answer is : because it is logical. In days gone you have newts , You need too kill them? Sometimes sometimes not it depends on sitation. That's why attacking witch in l4d2 is in most situation bad idea but is some of them is neccesary ( if she respawned in doors). That's way in re2 you don't kill most zombies - you need to saving ammo. So your question is only half correct . I want to add into for example executing a bandits to get better situation in city in mount and blade. They are kids in this game too. Most of them are just npc in cities. Want i could kill farmes with children? Nope. But if they decide to make a mount and blade 2 into game of throne when you do whatever you want to take a crown. You can execute lords so they children are dangerous too. That's why lord Tywin Lannister ordered to kill some children right? Or using them like "cards". So if they want to make a game of throne it should be option to be cruel as tywin or heroic like Robb. But if they decide to create mount and blade 2 in  something like "king Artur" kiling lords okay it fit but exectuting children shoudn't be a option. That's way zombie children can have place in 7dtd or world war z because they are trying to have "realistic " setting . But they don't fit in dead rising 4 or nza. 

I can agree - it can be matur without being unreaslic. For example painkiller - it looking very ... specific  i guess? And you can find skeletons, zombie crusader ( a lot of them were bad guys so it have sens.) bad scietntist( logical well a lot of doctors were bad) , drunkers ( i don't need to explain) , russian zombie solders ( this was rly controversial in russia) or... bad kids ( killer boy with knife and buring girl) in orphanage . Painkiller looks  ironical and serious in this same time - bad clown in park , prisoners in prisons, bad cop in riot. 

So it is neccesary how they implement everything in my opionion 

When was the last time you asked for a zombie old man / pensioner ? It is logical

 

[bloodmoth13]

and the hunting rifle?

or is that getting the boot? 

I dont think they outright said anything but i think its getting the boot and the t1 rifle will be the lever action, which hopefully holds more shots than just 1.

The hunting rifle was pretty much on the same tier as pipe weapons like the blunderbuss, i cant imagine how they could make a downgrade from that weapon, i imagine the pipe rifle will function much the same as the hunting rifle currently does.

 

[Adam the Waster]

I dont think they outright said anything but i think its getting the boot and the t1 rifle will be the lever action, which hopefully holds more shots than just 1.

The hunting rifle was pretty much on the same tier as pipe weapons like the blunderbuss, i cant imagine how they could make a downgrade from that weapon, i imagine the pipe rifle will function much the same as the hunting rifle currently does.

not really.

tier 0: i would see the Pipe rifle as the old Hunting rifle but it only has one shot and is made of pipes. 

tier 1: Hunting rifle. it would look the same as the classic one we have but it has a Small clip (3 shots) can get 5. and thats a right amount for a Deer rifle and it would still want players to get that over the pipe rifle.

tier 2: the Marksman rifle would be the lever action and it would have 8 shots. (think it will be neat if it shot 44.mag rounds)

tier 3 would be the Sniper it would have 15 and still deal high damage and can be Pimped out more, with stuff like a drum mag

 

Spoiler

how the would look in tiers
tier 0 (trash but it works)

tier 1 (Classic deer rifle!)

tier 2: (even better YeeeYahhhhh weapon!)

tier 3: Military's grade sniper! 

though i will miss the AR-15 style 

not really.

tier 0: i would see the Pipe rifle as the old Hunting rifle but it only has one shot and is made of pipes. 

tier 1: Hunting rifle. it would look the same as the classic one we have but it has a Small clip (3 shots) can get 5. and thats a right amount for a Deer rifle and it would still want players to get that over the pipe rifle.

tier 2: the Marksman rifle would be the lever action and it would have 8 shots. (think it will be neat if it shot 44.mag rounds)

tier 3 would be the Sniper it would have 15 and still deal high damage and can be Pimped out more, with stuff like a drum mag

 

Spoiler

how the would look in tiers
tier 0 (trash but it works)

tier 1 (Classic deer rifle!)

tier 2: (even better YeeeYahhhhh weapon!)

tier 3: Military's grade sniper! 



though i will miss the AR-15 style 

Also a little change for the Sniper so they can be used over say a AR. sense most people uses stuff like the TAR or AK as a sniper.

maybe the sniper will deal more damage the farther the target. so you could uses it as a closes range weapon but its better for long range

 

[Matt115]

When was the last time you asked for a zombie old man / pensioner ? It is logical

We have it : grandma zombie right?

 

[Matt115]

Yeah, from a business perspective zombie kids aren’t just something you throw in for realism purposes or shock factor. It’s either critical to what the game is about or you don’t do it.

From a content perspective, you still have to have a reason to make kid zombies and “it’s logical” isn’t really sufficient. There are a thousand realistic elements you could put in to a zombie game and not even get to kid zombies. Everything is a trade off, so you have to decide if it’s actually something you’d be interested in adding.

Do they play well with the themes and concepts the rest of the game deals with?

Would they be appropriate for the tone and direction the game is taking?

Just throwing them in is a sure fire way to make them either short zombies or gritty for the sake of gritty, which is my whole point.

going back to the original question, 90% of the time kid zombies are even brought up is explicitly for shock factor and oftentimes realism is used as a cover for that kind of lurid pandering. Don’t get me wrong, i have no issues with kid zombies in games, i have issues with adding things that would logically have a great deal of thematic and emotional weight in for the sake of looking cool and edgy. Do it right or don’t do it, it’s not something you throw in just because you think it would be cool or more realistic.

Yeah i understand this point but it is problem in my opinion what it can be added without making it in diffrent setting : For example i love NaziZombie army 1 2 and trilogy : because "setting" - pentagrams with swastics hanging " diffrents" lookind dead soldiers corpses , heavy SS looks very "fitting" thats same suisider zombies ( fanatics soldiers) but i hated skeletons ( it just not fit for me - you realistic eqipment in bunkers models of venicle etc (and i know they are props from sniper elita))  you know dark evil setting . and it was okay. But i hate 4 as part of series because they change setting into 90' b movie - as single game it looks good - ironical like zombie sharks or creepy dolls but changed design of special zombies it suit into this game but not into the series of games. So zombie kids will suit in my opinon just like old zombie looking like jockey ( but i don't postulled to put into 7dtd because.. well it its in l4d2 so it would be plagiarism.) but if zombie grandpa looks like old farmer ( you know cotton shirt long beard)  can suits too  but @meganoth  old man zombie will be this another variant or type ? that's a big diffrent. But yeah it suited to add  zombie  like amishs , hobos or PMC - diffrent variant of normal zombie. But zombie child or teen is smaller but weaker so it can be put into another type like soldier feral ,demolition or   screamer. I made topic about diffrent variants and types . So old man go to normal civilian zombies and scientists ( diffrent loot) zombie teens into special type of zombies(or weak) ,Amish normal civilian zombie, hobo into normal civilian zombie (or weak it depends on his condtion) and PMC go into special as Soldier variant . So in my opinion 7DTD trying to be "walking dead game" - you can't trust no one , bandit , problems with resources world is buring itd. So it  suit just like decying zombie or realistic looking bandits ( i mean more like stalker than mad max). Emotional weight is well - 7dtd is more like rust and scum that  the last of us - you know tlou  emotions , relations with diffrent people etc but 7dtd or rust is more - build a base , get resources and elimante threat whatever it is -bandits ,zombies animals . I liked a idea from days gone -main character don't like to kill newts but he sometimes is forced to do it ( like in warehouse) or prefere to avoid big powerfull zombies . So it can  suited in 7dtd because it have days gone/walking dead setting

 

[Matt115]

not really.

tier 0: i would see the Pipe rifle as the old Hunting rifle but it only has one shot and is made of pipes. 

tier 1: Hunting rifle. it would look the same as the classic one we have but it has a Small clip (3 shots) can get 5. and thats a right amount for a Deer rifle and it would still want players to get that over the pipe rifle.

tier 2: the Marksman rifle would be the lever action and it would have 8 shots. (think it will be neat if it shot 44.mag rounds)

tier 3 would be the Sniper it would have 15 and still deal high damage and can be Pimped out more, with stuff like a drum mag

 

Spoiler

how the would look in tiers
tier 0 (trash but it works)

tier 1 (Classic deer rifle!)

tier 2: (even better YeeeYahhhhh weapon!)

tier 3: Military's grade sniper! 



though i will miss the AR-15 style 

Also a little change for the Sniper so they can be used over say a AR. sense most people uses stuff like the TAR or AK as a sniper.

maybe the sniper will deal more damage the farther the target. so you could uses it as a closes range weapon but its better for long range

i wish they left AR as 3 tier  - " marksman" rifle and put  as 4 tier AMR