PC A19 Diary Discussions

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BobbyLee298 said:
O hahaha had no clue!
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hiemfire said:
@Jay_ombie didn't set the thread up. One of the moderators (most likely @Roland) did. Jay_ombie's post in this thread's OP was originally in the A19 Dev Diary and got moved.
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Roland said:
Jay_ombie didn’t name or create this thread. I did. His just happened to be the cutoff post for my mass migration as I went back and cleaned house. 
 

I altered the name slightly so that it won’t be so close. 
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MechanicalLens said:
Gotcha, realized that a little bit ago. I suppose I confused Jay's first post here meaning he was the OP. Nevermind, my bad. :)

Thanks for that.

🎈🎈🎈🎈🎈
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OMG, what did I do ?????.. I go away for a bit and I seem to have dropped a nuke or something... 😳

 
Jay_ombie said:
OMG, what did I do ?????.. I go away for a bit and I seem to have dropped a nuke or something... 😳
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Nah. You just got swept up by a bit of house cleaning by Roland and there was some confusion because of how the divergent discussions from the dev thread were put together and ended up here in general chat.

 
how is these traders qiest supposed to work?

the first few times i took a quest at first trader. when out and about would find another but they dont offer quests.

do some quests for the first one and or horde night comes and goes then you get the special quest to the next trader, who now offers other quests. 

this time thru trader 1 has all quests over a km away. didnt take one as too far on day 1. messed about and managed to get motorbike day 6 miidday so thougjt race over there where i saw a big town and see if there is a trader and any good stuff before day 7 reset. there was and they offered quests. went bacm to first and got a quest from him too.

before the special quest...

should this happen?

 
NukemDed said:
how is these traders qiest supposed to work?

the first few times i took a quest at first trader. when out and about would find another but they dont offer quests.

do some quests for the first one and or horde night comes and goes then you get the special quest to the next trader, who now offers other quests. 

this time thru trader 1 has all quests over a km away. didnt take one as too far on day 1. messed about and managed to get motorbike day 6 miidday so thougjt race over there where i saw a big town and see if there is a trader and any good stuff before day 7 reset. there was and they offered quests. went bacm to first and got a quest from him too.

before the special quest...

should this happen?
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They should offer you a special quest after you do 10 normal quests (afaik there is no way to see how many you've done with 1 specific trader) for them. However they stop giving them after 5 special quests, so if like me you played on rwg with more than 5 traders on the map, you'll end up doing infinite quests trying to get the 6th one, then eventually realise it stops after 5 XD

 
wolfbain5 said:
this part is easily modded in. Making stuff to put existing blocks in is simple enough. the hard part is getting ones that dont yet. we need some dev lovin
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You're getting quite a large early-game player-based mechanic for very little dev time or system resources, I'd say that would make an excellent addition to the vanilla game.

 
I did some testing with the current spikes we have in a creative test world and here's the crude information I've been able to gather from the limited tests I conducted. Apologies for limited data as I am exhausted this fine morning, but if anyone is interested I can perform more tests later, or if you prefer you can do it yourself.

DIFFICULTY: Nomad     (<----- Doesn't seem to matter?)

BASIC ZOMBIE:

Wood spikes: 4 stages until death

Iron spikes: 1 stage until death

BASIC FERAL ZOMBIE:

Wood spikes: 8 stages until death

Iron spikes: 2 stages until death

(*Basic zombie/feral zombie = Marlene, Arlene, Darlene, etc.)

(*Both spikes have 3 stages until complete destruction.)

Feel free to decide for yourself if spikes are effective enough to warrant usage. :)

Edit reason: I tested some of this across multiple spikes. In other words, I was being a muppet. Ignore the past results

 
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To add to the post above, let's say you surround an 11x11 wide tower, with one block breathing room between the base and the pit, with 192 iron spikes, 3 rows across in the pit surrounding the tower. Iron spikes take 4 forged iron to craft, so that's 768 forged iron for the whole lot - that's approximately 1 1/2 stacks of forged iron. By default, it takes 12 iron (plus some clay) to craft one piece of forged iron, and unless I'm mistaken, iron that is put into the input of the forge comes out to be a 1:1 ratio. This means it will take 36864 iron to craft the required amount of forged iron to craft/upgrade those 192 iron spikes; that comes out to 6 stacks + 1,000 iron. As stated above, it takes a third of an iron spike to down a regular zed, and two thirds of an iron spike to down a regular feral. Best case scenario, let's assume that half of your spikes are used. In this scenario, that should net from between 200 - 240 zombie kills on average, assuming they're all basic and none of them make it through. However, to apply this situation realistically, let's say 10% of zeds are beefier than your standard Arlene or Darlene, so this drops the kill count to about 190 - 220, to be on the safe side. Total potential kill count will probably come out at around 200 zeds on average for 96 total spikes, if the scenario ends in a perfect streak of zed carnage. This is unrealistic however, so expect some zeds to make it through your defenses, walk around areas where spikes have already been taken out, or multiple zeds trample on a singular spike simultaneously, creating diminishing returns.

Assuming however that you miraculously, through some strange and almost perfect coincidence, get approximately 200 zombie kills for approximately 100 spikes being used, on average. Are you willing to spend 18,500 iron per 200 kills per week? Up to you.

Edit: To be realistic about it though, count down the total number of kills per week from about 200 to maybe 140 - 160 on average maximum. Again, you have to take into account zombies brushing up against spikes but not actually dying.

Note: I was doing some crude math here, plus it is 2 in the morning where I am, so take all of these numbers with a pinch of salt, plus individual circumstances will vary greatly since entropy abound in these kinds of situations and order is few and far between.

 
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Ezed said:
Since today's theme is added blocks...

I wouldn't mind the ability to craft the noise making trash piles / broken glass we find in POI's as a poor man's 'alarm' for early game.
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CAN CHIMES!

 

266

 
Roland said:
Normally I would agree and once the A20 dev diary starts obviously there will be zero tolerance for anyone posting A19 bug reports in the A20 thread. But this A19 thread is a somewhat lame duck thread and Blake and @faatal seem to have a dialogue going that faatal hasn't seen fit to discourage. Obviously we can't have everyone start flooding this thread with bug reports but so far it hasn't really happened and if it does then we will have to enforce that rule. Personally, I have enjoyed reading faatal's solutions to the issues Blake has brought up so until it becomes a problem I am inclined to let it continue until the A19 thread closes or until faatal wants it to stop.

I hope everyone is noticing the pattern of post removal. What stays is predominately direct questions to the developers and direct comments and reactions to what the developers say. As soon as you start commenting on other people's comments then that is a discussion that is tangential to the direct interactions with the developers. So those are what I am shifting over to discussions.

I am not giving infractions for it because it is natural to comment and react to what others post. I am just informing everyone that those posts will get moved out so they do not clog and overwhelm the direct questions that people are hoping the developers will answer. I mean, I am sure people are on the edge of their seat to find out what YOU think about their question but they probably also want to hear from the developer they were asking and sometimes their questions get lost in all the debate and discussion that ensues.
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Here's my take on this: 

Performance feedback is not specifically related to the ideal "bug" report tickets because it needs constant back and forward  and, what's more important, more times than not, it gets buried in hundreds of other posts and delays the most important issues (optimization on minimum and recomended systems). 

Also, sometimes testers overlook a valid report due to the constant bombardment of non-canon tickets generating a bureoucratic hell, like in this particular example in which with just a look at the armor mods you could reproduce it in a19, yet he asked me for useless feedback probably from experiencing false statements daily, resulting in him just moving it to the "never gonna try" section (incomplete reports) forcing me to create a new one (can't edit old ones).





Another problem that the bug report section has for us general people, is that WE CAN'T EDIT OUR OWN POSTS (at least, me, in the bug report section) . Only official testers can do that, apparently. That is crutial for fixing, improving the ticket and reporting correctly. 

So what we need:

-To be able to edit our own posts on the bug report section.

-A proper forum entry for the bug report forums and not a green spam on the top of the screen. That's just awful.

-We also need testers that waste time testing seemingly incomplete reports that have at least repro steps. Testers that review ALL the reports if they have the minimum amount of feedback ( in my example, I had repro, some info and screenshots, MORE THAN ENOUGH for a report in many cases, and certainly a "good enough" in this case.

Minimum amount of feedback is just: General info and REPRO STEPS . They should test it and waste time for the good of finding the bug because that's what testers are meant to be; if they can't reproduce then ask for an output log OR they should move it to incomplete if no answer in, like 24 hours.

The unability to edit in the bug report section forces me to engage here in fast feedback with @faatal , because in the case of some performance issues, an Output log wouldn't really be enough without the wall of text pointing out the problem in real time and with shorter notice. In the future (a20 and forward), I will create a whole thread to avoid clogging this "interesting thread of inconspicuous theme" with offtopic banter.

I do nevertheless use the bug report forum for reporting proper bugs/issues. Pointing out a problem with the AIDirector seldom counts as a bug if not properly tested, which I'm unable to do due to the fact that I don't know how to make wandering Zd hordes happen faster for testing purposes.

 
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I've played this game for over 3,000 hours now... and I've only just leant that you can hold down the left mouse button to place down blocks instead of having to click the button every time.

 
Blake_ said:
-To be able to edit our own posts on the bug report section.
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This is subject to the wishes of the QA staff. If they turned off editing then they did it for a good reason. In the old bug reporting subforum you could edit your posts. In creating the new section the QA staff worked with our site admin to make it be the way that would work best for them.

Blake_ said:
-A proper forum entry for the bug report forums and not a green spam on the top of the screen. That's just awful.
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There is a proper forum entry. It is up by your name top right. It is a drop down menu button that says +Create from which you can select "Record in Bugs". The green bar no longer spams out in front of everything and it is simpy a direct link which is highly visible. I dunno, seems pretty simple and pretty proper. I guess think of it as a "stupid filter". If someone can't find the bug pool with what we've given them, then we probably don't want their report anyway...

Joking aside, there are times when Hated likes to close the bug pool to all but the volunteers he has selected and make it only accessible by those members who are in the tester group. The current setup allows him to do this whenever warranted.

Blake_ said:
-We also need testers that waste time testing seemingly incomplete reports that have at least repro steps. Testers that review ALL the reports if they have the minimum amount of feedback ( in my example, I had repro, some info and screenshots, MORE THAN ENOUGH for a report in many cases, and certainly a "good enough" in this case.

Minimum amount of feedback is just: General info and REPRO STEPS . They should test it and waste time for the good of finding the bug because that's what testers are meant to be; if they can't reproduce then ask for an output log OR they should move it to incomplete if no answer in, like 24 hours.
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What do you mean? They DO do this all the time. Just because they constantly remind people of the ideal proper way to submit bugs doesn't mean they completely discount reports that aren't to the letter in the format they ask for. Maybe they do some if the poster is also emotional and ranty. The QA staff even read the regular forums and the support forums looking for actionable clues just in case something comes from it. Our QA guys take action on all sorts of iffy reports and see if they can repro things. But they are also not going to just let the standards of reporting slide so you definitely will be told to submit bugs properly when you don't. Otherwise why even have a standard?

Blake_ said:
The unability to edit in the bug report section forces me to engage here in fast feedback with @faatal
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If you say so... It will only happen so long as faatal sees value in it and perhaps a separate thread where you tag his name to draw his attention might not be a bad idea. In the A20 thread there really won't be call for such posts as you won't be able to play it and give feedback on things you notice. For now with the A19 thread and with a developer's obvious willing participation it is fine.

Blake_ said:
this "interesting thread of inconspicuous theme"
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Exactly...all this inconspicuously themed crud was in the actual Dev Diary before I moved it out. Here you are free to keep clog alive.

 
Roland said:
Snip
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I see. You have cured my butthurtness with logic. Not that I agree with all of Hated's fishy actions, but I find them ok due to the nature of the "noise reports".

All that really matters is fixing bugs and enjoying the game. This is a Chinese Pasta Restaurant forum after all.

 
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Blake_ said:
 (...)which with just a look at the armor mods you could reproduce it in a19, yet he asked me for useless feedback probably from experiencing false statements daily, resulting in him just moving it to the "never gonna try" section (incomplete reports) forcing me to create a new one (can't edit old ones)
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Actually that "never gonna try" is a section I look through and have gotten a few bug reports out of when further information is provided (or, sometimes when provided no information some can be a missing link/hint for another bug), I was rather confused when you just made a new ticket in response to me asking.

And about logs... so many bugs not enough hours in a day, if a log is posted we can quickly tell if it's vanilla or not (and reduce the likelihood it's a wild goose chase). It's not like I was going to ignore your ticket, but I just would have like to have that little bit more information, it wasn't and wouldn't have been ignored, in fact I had plans tomorrow to check it out.

 
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