Viktoriusiii
New member
Well A18 experimental is out and I'm back from vacation. I have just finished Day 14 horde and feel qualified to give mass feedback.
I have finally seen what TFPs "vision" is that so many of the staff have mentioned.
Well... 7D2D isn't a horde survival crafting TD anymore... its a looter shooter. But its a damn fun looter shooter!
Don't take this the wrong way. Yes there is still all those elements, but they have taken a massive backseat with all these new weapons and increase in ammo. And if this was the vision, I understand it now.
If not, ammo needs to be reduced MASSIVELY (but later more)
First I will simply list all the stuff very simply and further below (maybe next thread) I will comment on why this is and what should be done instead.
Lets start with the good. There is too much to point out here, but these are the major points. These will not be all of them (small stuff like filling up bottles not draining a watersource would clutter stuff up)
1. huge rwg improvements!
2. poi upgrades are awesome
3. rage mechanic diversivies melee
4. balancing
5. better zombie spawns/sounds
6. awesome new weapons
7. no levelgates/perkrework/books/recipes
8. bugfixes
9. easier (but not dumbed down) crafting
(and much much MUCH more but I wanna give critical feedback so this will have to suffice)
The meh:
1. XP is still not really balanced.
2. loot tables are a bit weird to the point where looting safes is not as profitable as looting garbage
3. the new food system is not quite balanced/thought out.
4. repairing everything with iron and ductape feels weird
5. the music (personal reason, otherwise good)
The bad:
1. attributes still limit player freedom (although not as much as in A17)
2. Quests are again not viable again
3. trader prices are still very unbalanced (although better than any time before)
4. performance has gone down AGAIN. How? I thought you worked on this.
5. It is not the game I fell in love with, even though it is insanely fun.
The ugly:
1. melee combat is THE WORST it has ever been.
The good
1.There are mountains! There are hills! There are nearly no super steep slopes. There are small ponds and bigger waters. It feels awesome. I haven't tested too many maps yet, but the one I spawned in feels alive. (not pregen)
One small adjustment: maybe tone down the noise just A BIT. I like that wildernis is not easy to traverse by vehicle, but walking updownupdowndownupupdownupupupdowndowndown in the course of 15 blocks is A BIT much for my taste. Just smooth it smlightly.
2. I love the poi upgrades. They look and feel fantastic. Some, nay most of them you can still cheese by woodframing up there (or ladders or whatever), but they feel way less... cheaty (less Z's behind walls) and there are now actual indicators for broken floors (THANK YOU for listening. Now a keen eye can spot that there is something fishy and slow down)
3. I don't get why everyone is hating the rage mechanic so much. I feel like ppl that complain already play on lower difficulties, where its even easier to avoid them. But it brings a bit of change into an otherwise boring backtrack! Please don't listen. Although an option for it never hurts. (Some ppl like harder difficulties so turning down the difficulty to turn this off isn't an option)
4. there was so much balancing done its insane. From weapondamage to traderprices to craftingcost and so on.
not much to say. Continue and it will be balanced in 1-2 alphas.
5. not sure if Z's just make more sound now... but I haven't had a single zombie surprise me from behind yet. (those silent ninjas from A17 are gone) also inside pois zombies are much more... sensibly spread out!
Also except for vultures animals are MUCH fairer (dogs snarl and wolves howl so you have at least a chance to spot them before they spot you)
6. haven't tried most of them yet (am a sledge kinda guy and M60 hasnt droped as of yet) but it is awesome to diversivy the roster. Also granades are awesome and look and sound like they pack a punch. And the junk turrets are my new absolute favourite toy! If you need to absolutely nerf them, lower their shooting speed, although I feel they are pretty pricy for what they do)
7. THANK YOU. Its almost as if you listened to me when I was ranting about A17. Even though you said multiple times that I am wrong and that the developer knows best, you listened! You removed levelgates, reduced perkcosts (even though you level slower, but it FEELS better), you added books so exploring is rewarded more, you added recipes so you don't have to spec into for example cooking (although weapons and armor recipes are useless since oyu never want to craft lvl 1s EVER (since oyu need parts which you only get from the stuff itself)
You basicially took all my hate for A17 and bundled it to fix it. Even though technicially not THAT much has changed in the perk department (you still roughly need the same amount of zombiekills to get the same stuff) it feels like worlds apart! (maybe up XP by just a tiny bit, as it goes pretty slow)
8. too much to count, but the most claing one is the molotov that I can finally throw in a tunnel without it exploding in my face! GJ! (and a lot of other small things like seethrough ground and stuff)
9. I always hate when a game is dumbed down. So take it as even more of a compliment when I say that crafting has become easier (although I do not like parts for tools and melee weapons). I don't need 2 steel, 2 iron, 10 repair kits, 5 leather and some scrap to repair all my gear when im outside. Repairkit-> done (maybe make it stack more than 15 to up to 30 or 50 would be nice) and I like that you don't need an anvil (which you could craft with the forge anyways so it was just an extra step) to craft and so on and so forth. Really REALLY good simplification without making it feel dumbed down.
The meh
1. Looting containers gives 1-10 xp. I would need to loot 312 garbage bags to equal one Z kill.
Looting should give more xp (50 for something small like garbage and 1000 for something like a big gunsafe).
Since the amount of gunsafes is super limited, this will not do much (its one lumberjack or hawaiian guy) but it will feel less like I am beeing ridicouled. "I have killed 10000s of Z's! And I loot this super awesome military stach! "*10xp*
-_- Really? Not bad per se, just neither fair nor does it feel good (also I'm still of the opinion that books and magazines should give 1000xp. They cost 700 each and are rare. Tune it down to 750 or 500, but 50 feels same as above, like I'm beeing ridicouled)
2. garbage bags have magazines/books/recipes, they have glue/ducttape, they have oil and some other nice stuff too. While its nice to have nice stuff in garbage, something like small saves often have nothing of worth in them. Same with cars that now have nothing, chemical containers (those that break) have nearly nothing useful, while cardboard boxes often have big chunks of amm (once 70 in one box).
Don't take away the good stuff from junk... Just rebalance it a bit
3. I have read so much about infection and food illness...
And yet... I haven't had a single problem with it. The few times I risked it nothing happened and otheriwse I took vitamins or ate canned food. With that beeing said, most will hate me for this:
The whole system feels weird. Why is tea so perfect? why even have regular water when plants are EVERYWHERE.
And why can you find a magazine that teaches you how to purify water, when drinking is never EVER an issue from the moment you get a cookingpot?
Here I like the food changes. Although there is no intodote for it (only preemptively with vitamins). If there were something like the goldenrod tea but for food poisoning (like antibiotics), you could highten the chances of foodpoisoning. Make "Iron gut" worth the perk points!
4. I know I said I like that I only have one thing to repair everything, but thats why repair kits hsould cost more ressources... well be more diverse. Instead of 10 iron and 1 ducttape, make it 5 Iron, 1 ducttape, 5 leather and 1 oil.
This basicially makes them less cheap and it makes more sense why a repairkit out of some iron and ducttape can be the ultimate repairstation.
5. the music is nice. And I like that it is off as a standart. It is a bit too loud on standart settings (I put it on 15% and its still clearly noticable) but what I dislike is the sense of dread you feel when listening to it... as if I'm alone and all is lost... I guess that was the point... I personally like to think that I'm just working until I'm rescued and there is still hope ^^ put this under good. Great music (although sometimes drums are there when no Z's are close which is a bit confusing)
(continues in the next post)
I have finally seen what TFPs "vision" is that so many of the staff have mentioned.
Well... 7D2D isn't a horde survival crafting TD anymore... its a looter shooter. But its a damn fun looter shooter!
Don't take this the wrong way. Yes there is still all those elements, but they have taken a massive backseat with all these new weapons and increase in ammo. And if this was the vision, I understand it now.
If not, ammo needs to be reduced MASSIVELY (but later more)
First I will simply list all the stuff very simply and further below (maybe next thread) I will comment on why this is and what should be done instead.
Lets start with the good. There is too much to point out here, but these are the major points. These will not be all of them (small stuff like filling up bottles not draining a watersource would clutter stuff up)
1. huge rwg improvements!
2. poi upgrades are awesome
3. rage mechanic diversivies melee
4. balancing
5. better zombie spawns/sounds
6. awesome new weapons
7. no levelgates/perkrework/books/recipes
8. bugfixes
9. easier (but not dumbed down) crafting
(and much much MUCH more but I wanna give critical feedback so this will have to suffice)
The meh:
1. XP is still not really balanced.
2. loot tables are a bit weird to the point where looting safes is not as profitable as looting garbage
3. the new food system is not quite balanced/thought out.
4. repairing everything with iron and ductape feels weird
5. the music (personal reason, otherwise good)
The bad:
1. attributes still limit player freedom (although not as much as in A17)
2. Quests are again not viable again
3. trader prices are still very unbalanced (although better than any time before)
4. performance has gone down AGAIN. How? I thought you worked on this.
5. It is not the game I fell in love with, even though it is insanely fun.
The ugly:
1. melee combat is THE WORST it has ever been.
The good
1.There are mountains! There are hills! There are nearly no super steep slopes. There are small ponds and bigger waters. It feels awesome. I haven't tested too many maps yet, but the one I spawned in feels alive. (not pregen)
One small adjustment: maybe tone down the noise just A BIT. I like that wildernis is not easy to traverse by vehicle, but walking updownupdowndownupupdownupupupdowndowndown in the course of 15 blocks is A BIT much for my taste. Just smooth it smlightly.
2. I love the poi upgrades. They look and feel fantastic. Some, nay most of them you can still cheese by woodframing up there (or ladders or whatever), but they feel way less... cheaty (less Z's behind walls) and there are now actual indicators for broken floors (THANK YOU for listening. Now a keen eye can spot that there is something fishy and slow down)
3. I don't get why everyone is hating the rage mechanic so much. I feel like ppl that complain already play on lower difficulties, where its even easier to avoid them. But it brings a bit of change into an otherwise boring backtrack! Please don't listen. Although an option for it never hurts. (Some ppl like harder difficulties so turning down the difficulty to turn this off isn't an option)
4. there was so much balancing done its insane. From weapondamage to traderprices to craftingcost and so on.
not much to say. Continue and it will be balanced in 1-2 alphas.
5. not sure if Z's just make more sound now... but I haven't had a single zombie surprise me from behind yet. (those silent ninjas from A17 are gone) also inside pois zombies are much more... sensibly spread out!
Also except for vultures animals are MUCH fairer (dogs snarl and wolves howl so you have at least a chance to spot them before they spot you)
6. haven't tried most of them yet (am a sledge kinda guy and M60 hasnt droped as of yet) but it is awesome to diversivy the roster. Also granades are awesome and look and sound like they pack a punch. And the junk turrets are my new absolute favourite toy! If you need to absolutely nerf them, lower their shooting speed, although I feel they are pretty pricy for what they do)
7. THANK YOU. Its almost as if you listened to me when I was ranting about A17. Even though you said multiple times that I am wrong and that the developer knows best, you listened! You removed levelgates, reduced perkcosts (even though you level slower, but it FEELS better), you added books so exploring is rewarded more, you added recipes so you don't have to spec into for example cooking (although weapons and armor recipes are useless since oyu never want to craft lvl 1s EVER (since oyu need parts which you only get from the stuff itself)
You basicially took all my hate for A17 and bundled it to fix it. Even though technicially not THAT much has changed in the perk department (you still roughly need the same amount of zombiekills to get the same stuff) it feels like worlds apart! (maybe up XP by just a tiny bit, as it goes pretty slow)
8. too much to count, but the most claing one is the molotov that I can finally throw in a tunnel without it exploding in my face! GJ! (and a lot of other small things like seethrough ground and stuff)
9. I always hate when a game is dumbed down. So take it as even more of a compliment when I say that crafting has become easier (although I do not like parts for tools and melee weapons). I don't need 2 steel, 2 iron, 10 repair kits, 5 leather and some scrap to repair all my gear when im outside. Repairkit-> done (maybe make it stack more than 15 to up to 30 or 50 would be nice) and I like that you don't need an anvil (which you could craft with the forge anyways so it was just an extra step) to craft and so on and so forth. Really REALLY good simplification without making it feel dumbed down.
The meh
1. Looting containers gives 1-10 xp. I would need to loot 312 garbage bags to equal one Z kill.
Looting should give more xp (50 for something small like garbage and 1000 for something like a big gunsafe).
Since the amount of gunsafes is super limited, this will not do much (its one lumberjack or hawaiian guy) but it will feel less like I am beeing ridicouled. "I have killed 10000s of Z's! And I loot this super awesome military stach! "*10xp*
-_- Really? Not bad per se, just neither fair nor does it feel good (also I'm still of the opinion that books and magazines should give 1000xp. They cost 700 each and are rare. Tune it down to 750 or 500, but 50 feels same as above, like I'm beeing ridicouled)
2. garbage bags have magazines/books/recipes, they have glue/ducttape, they have oil and some other nice stuff too. While its nice to have nice stuff in garbage, something like small saves often have nothing of worth in them. Same with cars that now have nothing, chemical containers (those that break) have nearly nothing useful, while cardboard boxes often have big chunks of amm (once 70 in one box).
Don't take away the good stuff from junk... Just rebalance it a bit
3. I have read so much about infection and food illness...
And yet... I haven't had a single problem with it. The few times I risked it nothing happened and otheriwse I took vitamins or ate canned food. With that beeing said, most will hate me for this:
The whole system feels weird. Why is tea so perfect? why even have regular water when plants are EVERYWHERE.
And why can you find a magazine that teaches you how to purify water, when drinking is never EVER an issue from the moment you get a cookingpot?
Here I like the food changes. Although there is no intodote for it (only preemptively with vitamins). If there were something like the goldenrod tea but for food poisoning (like antibiotics), you could highten the chances of foodpoisoning. Make "Iron gut" worth the perk points!
4. I know I said I like that I only have one thing to repair everything, but thats why repair kits hsould cost more ressources... well be more diverse. Instead of 10 iron and 1 ducttape, make it 5 Iron, 1 ducttape, 5 leather and 1 oil.
This basicially makes them less cheap and it makes more sense why a repairkit out of some iron and ducttape can be the ultimate repairstation.
5. the music is nice. And I like that it is off as a standart. It is a bit too loud on standart settings (I put it on 15% and its still clearly noticable) but what I dislike is the sense of dread you feel when listening to it... as if I'm alone and all is lost... I guess that was the point... I personally like to think that I'm just working until I'm rescued and there is still hope ^^ put this under good. Great music (although sometimes drums are there when no Z's are close which is a bit confusing)
(continues in the next post)
Last edited by a moderator:
