PC A18.1 (b6) Changes: Mining iron ore yields iron?!?

If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water.
At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines.

What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now.
The problem is that it seems MM not understands that his game without features which they laid in the early - is just a non-competitive bul**it with bad graphics, ridiculous mocap and friezes.

It seems that he revised his "business plan" in accordance with modern trends and thinks that he can make a "looter-shooter" on the existing base with a voxel engine....

 
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LMAO at all the tears, tantrums, table-flipping, teeth-gnashing, hand-wringing and general whinging over the simple replacement of iron ore with scrap iron. For those that enjoy more complicated mining+ore processing mechanics, you would think people never heard of MeanCloud's modlets:

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?131108

FFS tho people - grow a pair! It is fine to say you like or dislike something and why. That is healthy, constructive feedback. But to carry on and on about it, going back and forth with each other, and giving the devs ulcers with your incessant demands...

No one is stopping any of you from playing A16, or ANY of the older builds. If that is your favorite, go load it up in the launcher. It IS EOL however, nostalgia always lies, and I will continue to play whatever bleeding-edge bug-ridden mess TFP release as experimental. At least we get it same time as the streamers.

 
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Fun Pimps need a proper Community Manager. Deciding stuff behind closed doors and pushing changes with no warning or explanation is a recipe for totally unnecessary drama and Steam review diatribes.
A little transparency goes a LONG way with this kind of stuff. Let people know what you're thinking and WHY you're making a particular change and you cut down on dissent and hurt feelings preemptively.
The job of a community manager is to put a safety wall between developers and community and FILTER and sugarcoat information, not add to it. YOU don't want a community manager.

 
I agree with a lot of people on here, some of these changes are starting to look like a trend in a bad direction.

Similar to what happened to the deus ex series, the first game was fantastic but the second game was complete "streamlined" garbage.

The complexity was what made this game great, please don't stream line it into a dumbed down shooter.

 
I like how a few people pop into this thread read the title, see the number of pages, and assume this whole thread has been nothing but a bunch of complaining and whining. There are a few posts in here like that, but no more than in most threads in this forum. It's even better when they immediately use that false pretense to make a post that makes them feel better about themselves by attempting to belittle a group of people that aren't even really in this thread.

This thread is actually a rarity.... so many different perspectives and in-depth thoughts about the direction of the game.

It is silly that it was sparked by a rock, but it is what it is.

 
I could have made a case as to how this does make the game easier and it actually isn't 'just an icon' - I didn't because I don't even see the point anymore, it makes such a little difference compared to the original simplification of crafting that occurred during and after A13. I just ran out of breath and energy even talking about it.

But, the general idea is that you can't slap raw ore onto a wooden-wall - but now you can go straight into a mine and have material ready to instantly throw on the wall without having to worry about time - or creating screamer heat by smelting it down.

Of course, who even uses wood anymore? They got rid of that early progression back then too with the auto-upgrade magic nail-gun system..So, yeah..It just don't matter. :(

 
If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water.
At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines.

What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now.
Its unfortunate that Atomic chose to bring up this quote out of context just to be snarky with his conspiracy theory. I encourage anyone who is upset by this quote to follow the link back and read the following several pages where Madmole clearly explained that he was simply musing about what might have been and also venting a bit about how difficult it has been to develop a game with voxels vs how much easier it would have been without voxels. He goes on to say that they will never remove voxels from the game and at most might create a static world as an option-- maybe for Horde Mode or something.

Using this quote all by itself out of context and without the following clarifications is a trollish move that will just anger and worry new users or those who did not follow the conversation-- and for no reason. Voxels won't be going away. There is no plan to get rid of the world we currently have.

Be responsible and go read the actual full conversation that followed or don't and be pissed and betrayed and horrified for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

 
The job of a community manager is to put a safety wall between developers and community and FILTER and sugarcoat information, not add to it. YOU don't want a community manager.
That's not what real Community Managers do. If you look at the work Community Manager Bex does for Grinding Gear Games, you see the potential of the position. She is worshipped by the community and makes GGG's often frustrating design decisions understandable and palatable to the raging masses.

 
Guess why?

It's the sugarcoating
It's really not. You shouldn't talk about somebody's work when you don't know what you're talking about. Bex doesn't sugarcoat anything. She just acts as a channel for clear communication of what the dev team is thinking and why they make the decisions they do.

Look at the Development Manifestos she puts together for GGG. Even when the team comes to unpopular decisions, Bex explains the thought behind them and that helps people to accept them.

Bex is worshipped by the community because she doesn't condescend to them or treat them like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s. She's honest and present and owns up to mistakes by acknowledging them as mistakes, apologizing, and explaining how they happened.

I don't know if you were trying to make a joke here, but if you were it was in poor taste and unfunny. The relationship between an indy game company and its customers is serious business, ESPECIALLY when that company has only one game. GGG understands that. It's really too bad that TFP doesn't, because the relationship with its customers has been souring for a while and it doesn't have to be that way.

 
Its unfortunate that Atomic chose to bring up this quote out of context just to be snarky with his conspiracy theory. I encourage anyone who is upset by this quote to follow the link back and read the following several pages where Madmole clearly explained that he was simply musing about what might have been and also venting a bit about how difficult it has been to develop a game with voxels vs how much easier it would have been without voxels. He goes on to say that they will never remove voxels from the game and at most might create a static world as an option-- maybe for Horde Mode or something.
Using this quote all by itself out of context and without the following clarifications is a trollish move that will just anger and worry new users or those who did not follow the conversation-- and for no reason. Voxels won't be going away. There is no plan to get rid of the world we currently have.

Be responsible and go read the actual full conversation that followed or don't and be pissed and betrayed and horrified for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Yeah, I don't really see the context meaning much in this case. So many times people bring things out of context with madmole's posts. I've seen it plenty of times. You can easily go back and see and say, yeah... that is definitely out of context.

This was in reply to and in agreement with someone, in summary, saying that the game isn't great because it uses voxels which cannot compete in the market, basically a mistake. This only strengthens more the arguments other people are throwing around that it's all about money now. Just because he later attempted to water down, make light of, downplay, or whatever choice of words you might wish to use to describe what he said afterward doesn't erase it or pull it out of context.

This is like if your dad said, if I could turn back time I wouldn't have any kids. They kept me from doing so much more in life.

Then later saying, oh don't worry, I'm not going to kick you out, not like I can unbirth you, I'm just telling you how hard it is and basically that I wish you were never born. Whatever was said by dad before or after just doesn't matter much. The thoughts are fully expressed and laid out.

There is enough information in that quote, with or without the context from which it taken, that aligns with the thoughts people are having in this thread.

 
Guess why?

It's the sugarcoating

It's really not. You shouldn't talk about somebody's work when you don't know what you're talking about. Bex doesn't sugarcoat anything.
iu


-Morloc

 
Its unfortunate that Atomic chose to bring up this quote out of context just to be snarky with his conspiracy theory. I encourage anyone who is upset by this quote to follow the link back and read the following several pages where Madmole clearly explained that he was simply musing about what might have been and also venting a bit about how difficult it has been to develop a game with voxels vs how much easier it would have been without voxels. He goes on to say that they will never remove voxels from the game and at most might create a static world as an option-- maybe for Horde Mode or something.
Using this quote all by itself out of context and without the following clarifications is a trollish move that will just anger and worry new users or those who did not follow the conversation-- and for no reason. Voxels won't be going away. There is no plan to get rid of the world we currently have.

Be responsible and go read the actual full conversation that followed or don't and be pissed and betrayed and horrified for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Yep, you are right. I read this comment like you did. More like a how madmole would have decided with the knowledge of these days, an abstract idea, nothing more.

 
Yep, you are right. I read this comment like you did. More like a how madmole would have decided with the knowledge of these days, an abstract idea, nothing more.
Yeah, i also know what was said after that, but i still treat it like this:

Yeah, I don't really see the context meaning much in this case. So many times people bring things out of context with madmole's posts. I've seen it plenty of times. You can easily go back and see and say, yeah... that is definitely out of context.
This was in reply to and in agreement with someone, in summary, saying that the game isn't great because it uses voxels which cannot compete in the market, basically a mistake. This only strengthens more the arguments other people are throwing around that it's all about money now. Just because he later attempted to water down, make light of, downplay, or whatever choice of words you might wish to use to describe what he said afterward doesn't erase it or pull it out of context.

This is like if your dad said, if I could turn back time I wouldn't have any kids. They kept me from doing so much more in life.

Then later saying, oh don't worry, I'm not going to kick you out, not like I can unbirth you, I'm just telling you how hard it is and basically that I wish you were never born. Whatever was said by dad before or after just doesn't matter much. The thoughts are fully expressed and laid out.

There is enough information in that quote, with or without the context from which it taken, that aligns with the thoughts people are having in this thread.
 
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This game is becoming worse and worse as they make "changes" to it…

We can't craft Q6, and now we can't mine Raw Iron because someone decided that we should mine just "Iron", okay, okay…

On a future update they should change the phrase "The Survival Horde Crafting Game" to "The Survival Horde Shooter Game", since it fits better to the stupid direction that this game is taking.

 
I am playing A18.0. My horde night plan includes 4x junk turret. As a result I use 4000 junk turret ammo per horde night. I am using 2x forge(full time) to turn raw iron back to iron. I think this change in iron mining is not a bad thing.

 
I am playing A18.0. My horde night plan includes 4x junk turret. As a result I use 4000 junk turret ammo per horde night. I am using 2x forge(full time) to turn raw iron back to iron. I think this change in iron mining is not a bad thing.
Your example may be viewed as a bad thing though. While it is probably a change without consequences for most players, in your case it actually made a difference.

Not a big one, as int player you can afford a forge "farm" better than anyone else. But still...

 
This game is becoming worse and worse as they make "changes" to it…We can't craft Q6, and now we can't mine Raw Iron because someone decided that we should mine just "Iron", okay, okay…

On a future update they should change the phrase "The Survival Horde Crafting Game" to "The Survival Horde Shooter Game", since it fits better to the stupid direction that this game is taking.
Game has been in decline for 2 years sadly. I used to rate it the best video game I've ever played (I'm 52, I've been doing that since 1979). These days it would be lucky to make my top 10. Heart-breaking really.

 
Yeah, I don't really see the context meaning much in this case. So many times people bring things out of context with madmole's posts. I've seen it plenty of times. You can easily go back and see and say, yeah... that is definitely out of context.
This was in reply to and in agreement with someone, in summary, saying that the game isn't great because it uses voxels which cannot compete in the market, basically a mistake. This only strengthens more the arguments other people are throwing around that it's all about money now. Just because he later attempted to water down, make light of, downplay, or whatever choice of words you might wish to use to describe what he said afterward doesn't erase it or pull it out of context.

This is like if your dad said, if I could turn back time I wouldn't have any kids. They kept me from doing so much more in life.

Then later saying, oh don't worry, I'm not going to kick you out, not like I can unbirth you, I'm just telling you how hard it is and basically that I wish you were never born. Whatever was said by dad before or after just doesn't matter much. The thoughts are fully expressed and laid out.

There is enough information in that quote, with or without the context from which it taken, that aligns with the thoughts people are having in this thread.
So publicly musing about how you might do things differently if you had to do it over again is on par with telling your children you wish you had remained childless? You guys are certainly emotionally fragile if you take his thoughts on the difficulties inherent with voxels as a personal attack against his supporters.

Too many sacred cows here. Some community manager for some other game is Jesus and voxels are Madmole’s precious children he regrets having....

You’re right that you don’t really need to read the following pages because his OP itself stated clearly that he was merely considering a future option for static terrain. It’s just that by time he got to that part, people’s tears were blinding them so they couldn’t read past all the voxel abortions they were visualizing. The following pages didn’t water it down—he just explained over and over that voxels aren’t going away and he was talking about a possible option for an alternate game mode and expressing frustration as a designer about the difficult challenge of working with voxels.

 
So publicly musing about how you might do things differently if you had to do it over again is on par with telling your children you wish you had remained childless? You guys are certainly emotionally fragile if you take his thoughts on the difficulties inherent with voxels as a personal attack against his supporters.
Too many sacred cows here. Some community manager for some other game is Jesus and voxels are Madmole’s precious children he regrets having....

You’re right that you don’t really need to read the following pages because his OP itself stated clearly that he was merely considering a future option for static terrain. It’s just that by time he got to that part, people’s tears were blinding them so they couldn’t read past all the voxel abortions they were visualizing. The following pages didn’t water it down—he just explained over and over that voxels aren’t going away and he was talking about a possible option for an alternate game mode and expressing frustration as a designer about the difficult challenge of working with voxels.
All of this back and forth over who said what is getting annoying and just shows that people care where the game is heading but are being left in the dark about it. The unknown and hypothetical are scary to some. So why not post a PROPER ROAD MAP!? Then people can prepare for what’s coming and the discussions have some kind of direction. I don’t think that’s asking a lot and it could alleviate some of the drama.

Loc

 
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