PC A18.1 (b6) Changes: Mining iron ore yields iron?!?

I want to see the argument about the need for keeping the following items verses the elimination of Iron ore.

Candle sticks, Brass door knobs, brass & lead trophies, lead weights.

The many different versions of canned foods.

Now that we talked about simplicity, why now adding more complexity.

Steel axe parts for only making steel axes, why not just steel tool parts.

Why all the different gun parts, couldn't they can have just common gun parts.

While simplify one process, that really isn't different form the other, like brass and lead.

Then add more complexity to guns and tools and then say eliminating iron ore speeds up the game????

 
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Fun Pimps need a proper Community Manager. Deciding stuff behind closed doors and pushing changes with no warning or explanation is a recipe for totally unnecessary drama and Steam review diatribes.

A little transparency goes a LONG way with this kind of stuff. Let people know what you're thinking and WHY you're making a particular change and you cut down on dissent and hurt feelings preemptively.

 
I have no plausible deniability.
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Sorry...I wasn't suggesting your opinions were less than genuine, just that you need to retain a certain clinical distance as a moderator.

Now that we talked about simplicity, why now adding more complexity.Steel axe parts for only making steel axes, why not just steel tool parts.
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iu


He who smelt it, dealt it!

-Morloc

 
Well here's things that have been added to crafting. Maybe I'm wrong about them but i think they are new to A17 or A18.
Food:

Hobo Stew

Sham Chowder

Fish Taco

Chili Dog

Sham

Purified Water

Mods: All the mods that go into guns. A couple dozen I think.

Clothing:

Bandanas, Jackets, Tank Tops, Etc. I don't think you could craft those before.

Explosives:

Grenades

Sticky Grendades

Timed Charges

Armor:

Steel Armor Set

Ammo:

AP Rounds

Shotgun Breech Rounds

Buffs:

All the Grandpa Elixers

Fort Bites

Weapons:

Spears

Knuckles

Sledgehammer

Baseball Bats

Vechicles

Motorcycle

4x4

Gryocopter

Building Blocks

Wood Bars
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Some of those I'm not sure when they came in but some I know are not new. Bandanas/steel armor/chili dogs/sledgehammer.

Has anyone ever crafted clothing other than a bandana D1 for a bit more protection or a plant fiber hat for a quick desert trip? Clothes in my experienc are more something I scrap for cloth as I'm looting than anything I've ever made. Elixers? Meh - I don't bother with magic potions either. But with that all said, how many things have been removed? Idk, not gonna reinstall multiple old Alpha's and compare.

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To each his own i guess. When you run 3 forges craft time means very little, at least to me.
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^^This. Forge time is meaningless. If you're sitting there waiting on it you're doing something wrong lol.

 
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Some of those I'm not sure when they came in but some I know are not new. Bandanas/steel armor/chili dogs/sledgehammer.Has anyone ever crafted clothing other than a bandana D1 for a bit more protection or a plant fiber hat for a quick desert trip? Clothes in my experienc are more something I scrap for cloth as I'm looting than anything I've ever made. Elixers? Meh - I don't bother with magic potions either. But with that all said, how many things have been removed? Idk, not gonna reinstall multiple old Alpha's and compare.

- - - Updated - - -

^^This. Forge time is meaningless. If you're sitting there waiting on it you're doing something wrong lol.
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Clothes could never be made before. In A18 there is a book series that allows you to craft clothing for the first time.

 
Bandana could I'm almost positive. The others I didn't say were possible before, just that I don't make them now. Wondering how many people do.

 
Bandana could I'm almost positive. The others I didn't say were possible before, just that I don't make them now. Wondering how many people do.
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Bandana for certain. Been crafting them along with the clothing quest since A16.

I haven't felt the need or desire to craft actual clothing in A18 as of yet. If surviving the elements doesn't get any love, it probably won't get used by most players. The game is heavy on looting and generous in providing clothing, which doesn't help in terms of feature usefulness either.

 
So much hate for an intermediate material change. A material you could only scrap ?

While i concur that streamlining games is not really always a good idea, this change is pretty minimal.

 
So much hate for an intermediate material change. A material you could only scrap ?While i concur that streamlining games is not really always a good idea, this change is pretty minimal.
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I think if you read the thread you'll see that the minimal change is simply the catalyst for general disappointment over the fact that crafting is getting the streamlining and simplification treatment. It does make sense for them to change iron ore to be like the rest. Some of us just wish all the rest would've been more like how iron ore was

 
I'm not much of a fan of conspiracy theories, but it's hard not to see a pattern emerge, especially when MM has in the past made statements about how the terrain and the voxels get in the way of speedy development and his design ideas.
Step 1: Remove caves.

Step 2: Add digging zombies back in so that less people build underground.

Step 3: Simplify mining so that it is uninteresting and people spend less time doing it.

Step 4: Remove destructible terrain, nobody needs it now anyway. Increase surface nodes.

Step 5: Remove voxels, because Fallout.

It's also hard not to see a pattern when the exact same thing has happened and is happening to random world generation. If change is gradual enough, the backlash is much less. Less people notice or become comfortable with the new product.
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Just sayin...

If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water.
At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines.

What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now.
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I think I'd be one of the 10%. Well, not angry anyway, but certainly enjoying the game less.

I'm not overly concerned with graphics, and my rig is powerful enough to run A18 pretty much on any settings, but if 7Days hadn't been voxel, then I don't think I would have enjoyed it anywhere near as much - certainly Ark's map system didn't float my boat anywhere near as much as 7Days has.

 
I can see the headaches with performance. I don't think that's what keeps the game looking indy.

What I really think shouts indy I pointed out here:

...snipped to stay on the topic of simplicity...
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Other things that shout indy and that have nothing to do with voxels and destructible worlds:

- scrapping iron ore into iron with your bare hands (oops, that's gone now... the plus side of it)

- making wet concrete without a drop of water

- drinking from jars with the lids on

- automated workstations (no NPCs doing the work) ... very classic indy. Does any indy game not do this?

- upgrading everything with a nailgun

- dead bodies pop out of existence

- giant yellow loot bags nearly as big as the zombies

- most food looks like a lump of lard in your hand

- very basic, one handed, no footed combat

I could go on for a long, long time. Voxels had no part in this. I don't want to pick on TFP or this game. It remains my favorite game. I just hate reading these made up things to help push some new agenda that is only going to fade away like many others have in the past.

Really, it is a big mess... and yet somehow, the game always has managed to hang on a thread. That thread is voxels.

 
If I could do it all over again I'd have thrown out the diggable terrain. Alpha 1 could have had static Unity terrain, a simple water plane, ran 30% better, used way less ram, console wouldn't have been so beat down, allowed faster vehicles, looked as good as 18's terrain does now, (Minus the Justin talent) and we wouldn't have wasted energy on mining, cave systems, multiple versions of trees, etc. Mining could have been mining POIs with respawning nuggets like rust/skyrim/subnautica with a nice model. We'd anger 10% and gain 200% new players that don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about deformable terrain and buggy water.
At some point we might release a static terrain option for 7 days just to see the performance gains. IMO most people would run it for the performance gains and better pvp, none of this wimpy underground base business, fight like a man like in TWD. You don't see those guys living in caves/mines.

What may have made us great has also slowed us down and kept us indy looking/performing. I think mining is ok but its not part of the secret sauce, we'd still have mining it just wouldn't be ugly 3d mining. At this point we'd kind of solved it mostly but it could have saved us a lot of time and headaches, allowing us to focus on cool stuff like we are able to now.
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This.....this just pisses me off. This says, to me, that the game I bought is the game he doesn't care about anymore. The reason I enjoyed 7dtd is because of all of the things that MM said he would have rather not had in the game because it would have been easier and made them more money faster (ie having the game further along earlier and have more players with the game [buying the game]).

If I could get a refund now I would, but I can't. I know some will say I'm just whining or being dramatic.....but, I'm just disappointed. Disappointed in this game, disappointed in the gaming industry in general, and just disappointed in in people.

The only thing that matters is money.

Now tear me apart for saying it.

 
I can see the headaches with performance. I don't think that's what keeps the game looking indy.What I really think shouts indy I pointed out here:

Other things that shout indy and that have nothing to do with voxels and destructible worlds:

- scrapping iron ore into iron with your bare hands (oops, that's gone now... the plus side of it)

- making wet concrete without a drop of water

- drinking from jars with the lids on

- automated workstations (no NPCs doing the work) ... very classic indy. Does any indy game not do this?

- upgrading everything with a nailgun

- dead bodies pop out of existence

- giant yellow loot bags nearly as big as the zombies

- most food looks like a lump of lard in your hand

- very basic, one handed, no footed combat

I could go on for a long, long time. Voxels had no part in this. I don't want to pick on TFP or this game. It remains my favorite game. I just hate reading these made up things to help push some new agenda that is only going to fade away like many others have in the past.

Really, it is a big mess... and yet somehow, the game always has managed to hang on a thread. That thread is voxels.
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This guy has it.

The only thing that sets 7dtd apart from all of the other survival games are the voxels.

If voxels weren't in the game to begin with then 7dtd would be where h1z1 is right now.

 
I can see the headaches with performance. I don't think that's what keeps the game looking indy.What I really think shouts indy I pointed out here:

Other things that shout indy and that have nothing to do with voxels and destructible worlds:

- scrapping iron ore into iron with your bare hands (oops, that's gone now... the plus side of it)

- making wet concrete without a drop of water

- drinking from jars with the lids on

- automated workstations (no NPCs doing the work) ... very classic indy. Does any indy game not do this?

- upgrading everything with a nailgun

- dead bodies pop out of existence

- giant yellow loot bags nearly as big as the zombies

- most food looks like a lump of lard in your hand

- very basic, one handed, no footed combat

I could go on for a long, long time. Voxels had no part in this. I don't want to pick on TFP or this game. It remains my favorite game. I just hate reading these made up things to help push some new agenda that is only going to fade away like many others have in the past.

Really, it is a big mess... and yet somehow, the game always has managed to hang on a thread. That thread is voxels.
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The real ironic part is that while MM and company strive to simplify everything and dumb things down, new survival games are popping up with an eye towards more complex crafting etc. 7 Days was the king in this field but i suspect that in a few years time other games will surpass them in the complexity department.

 
This.....this just pisses me off. This says, to me, that the game I bought is the game he doesn't care about anymore. The reason I enjoyed 7dtd is because of all of the things that MM said he would have rather not had in the game because it would have been easier and made them more money faster (ie having the game further along earlier and have more players with the game [buying the game]).
If I could get a refund now I would, but I can't. I know some will say I'm just whining or being dramatic.....but, I'm just disappointed. Disappointed in this game, disappointed in the gaming industry in general, and just disappointed in in people.

The only thing that matters is money.

Now tear me apart for saying it.
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This actually makes me both angry and terrified.

Angry because the game sold millions of copies as it was advertised as a "minecraft for adults with zombies". A16 was the best version because of its simplicity and because of building huge bases which was exactly why the game sold so well . A17 split the community in half because they changed most things that made this a simple base building game by nerfing steel tools, augers and making the game horrifically slow with level gating.

A18 followed a similar path by loot gating almost everything because the developers clearly want to build anything but huge bunkers and underground bases and also hate mining.

Terrified because I now realize what the devs have been trying to do all along : remove the base building element of the game in progressive steps. They systematically remove difficulty and depth from crafting and base building so they can sell this game as a fortnite clone despite the fact it sold so well and we payed for it.

The devs saying "but you've played hundreds of hours" doesn't take into consideration that we are beta testing every version. That even if we do like A16 it comes with game breaking bugs like disappearing traders and ground tossing minibikes . That A17 came with horrible AI pathfinding and made the game unenjoyable .

They cannot sugar coat enough that we payed and beta tested an ultra laggy voxel game which they slowly turn it into a fortnite/pubg clone with zombies.

I can't really whine though because the game did cost me 10 bucks and I did enjoy A16. However A17 and A18 rely on the gamers to set up servers running with multiple mods to fix the game and make it enjoyable for more than 10 hours .

Finally, I think with A19 I'm going to completely stop playing the game since the devs are going to remove any serious resemblance to a survival game. I bet it's all going to be guns and glory with magical reseting buildings ,cars providing the tools to build an entire base and the devs will still say to forums "GIT GUD LOL" while they are playing with 4 different types of blocks with horribly misplaced traps while they use cheat firearms for killing hundreds of zombies .

 
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Well... So where to start... Well I didn't care for the change but after doing some serious mining as I am meant to do lol I'm wondering if my post here was a bit premature... Problem was with my service and they've took it upon themselves to change my dedi's IP, not once but twice - which caused me headaches until I noticed that they did that...

Now then... I am getting a relative amount of iron while mining, albeit it probably should be tweaked some - a little bit upwards. I've found a few... Well let me define the 'iron ore' blocks on the surface as "Nodes" so that there's no confusion. I've found a few triple nodes and marked them. I've found many double nodes too. With those triple nodes I'm getting a decent amount of iron. As I noted - I don't know nor have measured the time it takes to mine from previous alphas as opposed to A18.1 (b6) so the adjustment may not be necessary. Anyway I've been mining this one Triple Node and so far have gotten 32K iron out of it in an entire day. As for iron mining iron I have no images nor videos... But I do have an image for nitrate! This was Alpha 16 (b138) and I vaguely remember mining this one and it was like 12k of nitrate a full day. I was mining and others actually jumped in and started mining too since we didn't have any lol But with A18.1 (b6) I have yet to manage that since the ores seem to be intermingled as they probably should be. For nitrate I've mined probably 8k in a day which would actually seem more realistic.

 
This.....this just pisses me off.
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When I first read that, I thought it was a joke, or a bit of hyperbole.

Search this list for "voxel" and let me know how many hits you find. Is your conclusion that voxel zombie games don't sell? Why not have a bit of faith in yourself and consider that you've created a unique, desirable niche...or just go compete with the 99 other companies for that thin, thin slice of pie.

TFP should act like men and stand behind their creation.

-Morloc

 
OMG instead of putting raw in the forge to make stuff, I need to put Iron in the forge to make stuff. How dare they dumb this down! It was so much more complicated putting RAW iron in the forge rather that just plain iron!!

 
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