PC A17 ... Where are you

Yes, because they are redoing stuff for the second (or more) time.. like weapons, buff system, progression system..
It is excellent when they add stuff to a system, but it is sad when they say that they are starting over with something.. It makes you think about the waste of time...
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Except they really aren't.

Buff system has never been redone its being upgraded with more options and more ways to control buffs

Progression system isn't being redone either, its being expanded upon whats already there. Wellness is being removed and thats about it

Weapons aren't being redone either, they are adding alot more with mods, and just removing parts.

None of that is remotely close to "starting over". it's also an alpha, part of that means you have unfinished systems in place that are continuously tweaked as you develop. Sadly I've never met a programmer with a crystal ball who can magically predict the future and has never had to go back and tweak things in his code.

 
Except they are.
Developer Diary: Alpha 17, page 1:
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It helps when you post the actual wording and not edit it to try to make it say something it doesn't. It actually says

Replacing old buff system with a more robust and optimized framework

Replacing old skill system with a more robust and optimized framework, also designed to work with items and buffs.

So they are replacing the old system with the new system which is an expansion of their previous framework they had.

 
I don't know if the people reading this have ever developed anything - especially a game, but often times the best way to get to a perfect system is usually to make a less-than-perfect system, learn some lessons, and then start over from the ground up. Oftentimes your first draft system simply isn't built properly to be successfully refined into a better system without starting over.

They also switched engines to Unity 2017 so it was one of their best opportunities to actually go ahead and reconstruct systems that weren't exactly working.

 
svhMSNX.png
 
To be fair KingSlayer is technically correct, replacing the framework means they are going to totally rebuild the systems in a new way. However, I don't agree that it's necessarily a waste of time and effort. They saw a way to improve their product and determined it was worthwhile to invest the time in restructuring the code and design. They also have all the lessons learned from building the first iteration so that will speed the process along dramatically.

 
svhMSNX.png
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Funny, nowhere does that say that the word means to throw away everything they have done and start over. If you replace something your not throwing away all the previous work. Your just swapping it out with something new aka an enhanced skill system built off the previous one.

A16 replaced A15. It doesn't mean they started over, it means they built upon alpha 15 and added new stuff to it.

To be fair KingSlayer is technically correct, replacing the framework means they are going to totally rebuild the systems in a new way. However, I don't agree that it's necessarily a waste of time and effort. They saw a way to improve their product and determined it was worthwhile to invest the time in restructuring the code and design. They also have all the lessons learned from building the first iteration so that will speed the process along dramatically.
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From what i've seen showin the videos that is not true. As I previously said replacing doesn't mean your starting over from scratch. It just means something is taking its place. That something can be their new robust system that's built upon and expanded compared to their previous system.

I do a lot of reporting for a living. if I replace one of the reports I developed with new columns and data it doesn't mean I started over from scratch. I took my previous report and enhanced it and replaced the one that was there previously.

 
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From what i've seen showin the videos that is not true. As I previously said replacing doesn't mean your starting over from scratch. It just means something is taking its place. That something can be their new robust system that's built upon and expanded compared to their previous system.
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For sure, I think we just have different definitions of the words we are using, so basically a failure to communicate. I think we both agree on the general state of affairs. I'm not saying that the systems we know will completely disappear, but replacing the framework is a big ordeal behind the scenes and I wouldn't be surprised if that meant they started from line 1 and wrote entirely new code that accomplished a similar end goal.

 
I keep making this stupid table, and the forum keeps eating it. Literally like 3 hours now with this stupid thing, just because I'm a stubborn bastard.

 
[TABLE=class: grid, width: 625, align: center]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha Version[/TD]

[TD=align: center]Released[/TD]

[TD=align: center]Days 1[/TD]

[TD=align: center]Days 2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Kickstarter[/TD]

[TD=align: center]July 2013?[/TD]

[TD=align: center]--[/TD]

[TD=align: center]--[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 1[/TD]

[TD=align: center]8/16/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]--[/TD]

[TD=align: center]--[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 1 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]9/18/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]33[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 2[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/9/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]85[/TD]

[TD=align: center]52[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 3[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/19/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 4[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/24/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]5[/TD]

[TD=align: center]5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 4 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/27/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 5[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12/13/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center]16[/TD]

[TD=align: center]16[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 5 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12/21/2013[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]8[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 6[/TD]

[TD=align: center]1/15/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]33[/TD]

[TD=align: center]25[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 6.4 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2/6/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]22[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 7[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2/28/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]44[/TD]

[TD=align: center]22[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 7.11 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]4/22/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]53[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 8[/TD]

[TD=align: center]4/27/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]58[/TD]

[TD=align: center]5[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 8.8 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]7/23/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]87[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 9[/TD]

[TD=align: center]8/15/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]110[/TD]

[TD=align: center]23[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 9.3X Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]9/18/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]34[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 10[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11/22/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center]99[/TD]

[TD=align: center]65[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 10.4 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12/19/2014[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]27[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 11[/TD]

[TD=align: center]4/2/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center]131[/TD]

[TD=align: center]104[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 11.6 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]6/12/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]71[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 12[/TD]

[TD=align: center]7/3/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center]92[/TD]

[TD=align: center]21[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 12.5 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]8/23/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]51[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 13[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12/12/2015[/TD]

[TD=align: center]162[/TD]

[TD=align: center]111[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 13.8 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2/5/2016[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]55[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 14[/TD]

[TD=align: center]3/26/2016[/TD]

[TD=align: center]105[/TD]

[TD=align: center]50[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 14.7 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]6/20/2016[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]86[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 15[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10/5/2016[/TD]

[TD=align: center]193[/TD]

[TD=align: center]107[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 15.2 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2/4/2017[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]122[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 16[/TD]

[TD=align: center]7/12/2017[/TD]

[TD=align: center]280[/TD]

[TD=align: center]158[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Alpha 16.4 Stable[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10/26/2017[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]106[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Avg. days between release[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]95[/TD]

[TD=align: center]53[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]Days since last release[/TD]

[TD=align: center][/TD]

[TD=align: center]480[/TD]

[TD=align: center]374[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

A1-A4 where not on Steam. A5 was the first Steam release, and is considered the official release date by many sites.


All console dates highlighted in green received Alpha 15 release content.

​



Now look at the time on some of the larger builds.

  • A9 was a complete interface overhaul and the introduction of Randomly Generated Worlds. Buff system was introduced along with many effects.
  • A11 was re-coded for Unity 5, added the gore block system, and many other features in RWG. It was the largest update yet when it released.
  • A13 had huge framework changes, added HD Zeds, motion capture movement, dismemberment, the knockdown system, and weather.
  • A15 was again the largest yet. New Distant Terrain feature introduced. A large number of new POI's. Larger Navezgane map. New height map for large mountains. A re-design of the RWG system. Traders and economy were introduced. New Blood moon horde system with dynamic difficulty. And loads more.
  • A16 again was larger than any previous with more modifications to disatant POI, and the game stages. Electricity was added, a ton of new POI's, and screamer horde changes,. Plus more work on the RWG mixer system, world previewer, and the addition of a crapload of more zombies and animals.
  • A17 basically looked at all the others and said, "Here, hold my beer".
    A complete re-work on the code upgrading to Unity 2017. Huge amounts of optimization are part of this rework. New vehicles, new physics for vehicles. New buff system. Completely new weapon system. Another complete re-work on the RWG system and distant POI. And those are just a few of the key features.

 
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I don't get some people, 7d2d has more content than any other indie game, more than any AAA game, the crafting capabilities are ridiculously huge. You can destroy or shape the whole map should you wish, and the game has become stale because new Alpha is taking its time???? How long before A17 bores you and you come back here wanting A18? What happens when the game goes full release and no more content comes out? Will you hit Steam and give a negative review just because you are bored??

Just enjoy the game, have a break from it and come back later, when other games have become boring.

 
My main concerns about systems being done and then redone is pathfinding and AI.

The pimps seem set on using an a-star variant which for a modern FPS game is well out of date, any decent modern system uses some sort of navmesh of which there are several to choose from. Hopefully this will change when unity add the navmesh system to the c# job system which will decrease computation time while effectively leaving the frame-rate stable.

The other thing is a lack of news about behavior trees. Fair enough for simple zombie AI you can get away without one but do you really want to? Bandits will require teamwork and that's far easier to achieve with behavior trees. It makes sense to do the zombie AI first because it's far simpler than bandit AI but if you intend to use behavior trees for bandits it would make sense to implement it first with zombies. It may not do much for zombies but at least you're laying a groundwork which can be built on for bandits instead of trying to lever a behavior tree into an already existing system.

 
I keep making this stupid table, and the forum keeps eating it. Literally like 3 hours now with this stupid thing, just because I'm a stubborn bastard.
Click to expand...
Your efforts are not in vain. I've determined the exact release date of Alpha 17 using your table:

23. Jun. 2018 (see plot below).

wnAgGDI.jpg


 
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