PC A17. Tools need buffs, and please make item grade more relevant.

L

Lord_Clown1

New member
A17 makes you weak until you reach bizzarre levels, regardless of talent tree, cause each of the talent trees have level locks.

When you've maxed everything though. (I did a bit of testing) At level 300, with all skills maxed, i tried a couple things.

Full modded steel armor, works like a charm, with a spiked club you can rush into a group at survivalist and bash em all, (bring a medkit cause the bleeding will most likely be what kills you otherwise[Not that you'll ever get to that point normally as it is now]

Melee was a bit fun but a bit too low decapitation chance at max or at low ranks, i felt at least.

Tools, completely useless at max rank, useless throughout the entire game almost. Stone axe works great and i feel like it's near perfectly balanced, but that's about it.

AT max rank of str and mine69er. You still cannot oneshot dirt with a flawless steel shovel cause item grades do not matter. There are two ways you could go here, either improve the perks to make it 200% max rather than 100%, or fix the item grades so they're relevant again. Flawless doing like 125% the damage of poor (Give or take, i believe you guys used to do a great job at that)

I've posted a previous thread about grades with different weapons and such and it just doesn't feel good when i loot a marksman rifle (sniper rifle) anymore, or any gun for that matter, cause in pve they're useless, regardless of being poor or flawless, until you level to what? 50? 60? 120? 150? Not sure where you've put all your caps. I'm just aware that from normal playing, quite a few caps lay at level 20. PLEASE Lower the caps so we can pick our playstyles, if we want to be glass cannons, let us be glass cannons. If we want to be builders, let us be builders, if we want to go full gun mode with near no ammo, let us do that. I'm forced into the near exact same playstyle no matter what cause it makes no difference.

So far this has been the least enjoyable patch in terms of balancing and character development. Although, the new mechanics of things are great and some of the mods are great fun. The dungeon things are pretty epic, even if sometimes a bit odd. I'm loving those things.

A17 Would be epic if just a few of these things would be fixed Imo.

Power attack steel shovel grade 5. 70 HP left of dirt when fully maxed.

View attachment 6792

 
I can agree quite alot, especially on the tools! (I have only played survival so far, and only reached iron tools.)

Oh, so the steel tools are severely underpowered as well? Ugh, bad news for me who loves digging underground bases...

Yepp, they should either increase the power of them, or make mods for the tools that enhances them further.

As regarding the perks and classes, i think the A16 skills did a better job at it.

I didnt like the removal of skills that increased when performed the respective task. If you mine, you increase your mining level, If you smash zombies you get better at smashing etc.

The way it is now it could basicly be:

”Now ive killed a bunch of zombies, now i have leared how to build bicycles!”

Or ”oh boy, after hours of mining, i can finally get those good deals at the trader!”

They should bring back those 100-level skills again..!

 
OMG, that's gotta change. FULL MAX perks and you can't one shot dirt/stone? WTH is that? Good bye this being a building game?

 
Agreed. Yeah, a16s skill system was much better than this. This system is absolute ♥♥♥♥, i actually thought they'd just add on the different stats to the old system. Every 5 levels you'd get like a statpoint that you could put in str, fortitude, agility, perception or intelligence.

That would have been much better than this...

Old system with the new things they added would be great. I definitely agree with you though.

 
New system isn't too bad.. but yes, they need to fix Block Damage scaling, it's way too low right now. :f

 
Yeah, also rather than instabreaking stones with a flawless steelpickaxe at max ranks like you did at a16, you do 126 damage with a power attack, so it takes 4x longer to break a stone at max. I DON'T ♥♥♥♥ING GET WHY? They should have made it easier to reach such quick mining in this patch, cause they've made zombies dig down really efficiently, underground bases aren't very safe during horde nights! I've even tried it. Why would they nerf it twice in the same patch?... :(

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Espescially with how the new zombie digging downwards system works... Even if you could oneshot stones with normal steel pickaxe attacks now, you'd still have a lot of problems during horde nights.

 
I don't think armor perks are working (or are working and not visible on the tooltips), but yeah, melee is actually somewhat fun once you get steel armor and a pile of fortitude perks. It takes a LOT of skill point investment though to make it pay off.

Armor needs to provide bleed resistance. Perked out for being a tank in steel armor, the max health damage caused by constant bleed effects is what will kill you in a prolonged close quarters fight. It's a LOT of effort and investment for it to not pay off because of one excessively common debuff.

Not so sure on the whole mining thing. Digging bunkers isn't a horde solution anymore, but by the time you even consider digging a mine for ores, you should probably have access to coffee and decent meals to restore the stamina drain of using heavy attack. The level gating on perks is draconic, either way.

 
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Espescially with how the new zombie digging downwards system works... Even if you could oneshot stones with normal steel pickaxe attacks now, you'd still have a lot of problems during horde nights.

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Indeed. I've done a few things. Tried a couple things. I made a youtube clip regarding it too,

 
Yesterday I picked the perk that changes my tool and weapons from grey to orange. I was so excited about leveling to get that perk. I always focused a lot on improving quality of items.

It only increased the duration. What? Let me check again... same damage, same... everything, except duration.

Are you fraking kidding me?

 
I agree. Tools need a buff. If they dont want to make quality count then give us a scrap iron toolset we can make at lvl 10.

Tbh though having quality not count is kinda lame. I know about mods but we cant make mods till mid game.

 
A17 makes you weak until you reach bizzarre levels, regardless of talent tree, cause each of the talent trees have level locks.
When you've maxed everything though. (I did a bit of testing) At level 300, with all skills maxed, i tried a couple things.

Full modded steel armor, works like a charm, with a spiked club you can rush into a group at survivalist and bash em all, (bring a medkit cause the bleeding will most likely be what kills you otherwise[Not that you'll ever get to that point normally as it is now]

Melee was a bit fun but a bit too low decapitation chance at max or at low ranks, i felt at least.

Tools, completely useless at max rank, useless throughout the entire game almost. Stone axe works great and i feel like it's near perfectly balanced, but that's about it.

AT max rank of str and mine69er. You still cannot oneshot dirt with a flawless steel shovel cause item grades do not matter. There are two ways you could go here, either improve the perks to make it 200% max rather than 100%, or fix the item grades so they're relevant again. Flawless doing like 125% the damage of poor (Give or take, i believe you guys used to do a great job at that)

I've posted a previous thread about grades with different weapons and such and it just doesn't feel good when i loot a marksman rifle (sniper rifle) anymore, or any gun for that matter, cause in pve they're useless, regardless of being poor or flawless, until you level to what? 50? 60? 120? 150? Not sure where you've put all your caps. I'm just aware that from normal playing, quite a few caps lay at level 20. PLEASE Lower the caps so we can pick our playstyles, if we want to be glass cannons, let us be glass cannons. If we want to be builders, let us be builders, if we want to go full gun mode with near no ammo, let us do that. I'm forced into the near exact same playstyle no matter what cause it makes no difference.

So far this has been the least enjoyable patch in terms of balancing and character development. Although, the new mechanics of things are great and some of the mods are great fun. The dungeon things are pretty epic, even if sometimes a bit odd. I'm loving those things.

A17 Would be epic if just a few of these things would be fixed Imo.

Power attack steel shovel grade 5. 70 HP left of dirt when fully maxed.
Click to expand...
Were you left clicking or right clicking for your dirt shovel tests? I am level 30 and right click oneshotting clay soil with an iron shovel. Mining, Digging etc... seems to be a right click activity now left click is "quieter" to the zombies but right clicking seems to be the new norm for actually getting things done. If this was a left click test can you rerun with right clicking?

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I think scrap iron tools would be a great addition and would bridge the gap between stone and the forge much better.

 
I did mention it was a power attack with a steel shovel.

Power attack = Right click.

Pickaxe fully upgraded mine69er and str 126 damage with power attacks, 42 damage with normal attacks.

So yeah, not sure what you were attacking, but there are spots wih 100 life, what i was attacking had max hp 250, normal soil has 200, so i doubt that's what you were oneshotting, or iron is simply better than steel.

 
OMG, that's gotta change. FULL MAX perks and you can't one shot dirt/stone? WTH is that? Good bye this being a building game?
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I forget where I saw it but it's been said we will not be 1 shotting dirt without mods. All the mods are not yet in the game/ working correctly.

 
I did mention it was a power attack with a steel shovel. Power attack = Right click.

Pickaxe fully upgraded mine69er and str 126 damage with power attacks, 42 damage with normal attacks.

So yeah, not sure what you were attacking, but there are spots wih 100 life, what i was attacking had max hp 250, normal soil has 200, so i doubt that's what you were oneshotting, or iron is simply better than steel.
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I missed your mention of power attacks in your first comment. I just went back and retested with the iron shovel and im not one shotting it anymore. I may have had had a magazine buff earlier or steroids or something when i was one shotting things which might have explained it. It will definitely be frustrating if maxed out tools don't one shot things but they may have left that to the augur as the top end tool.

 
In the dev thread, Joel said that mods for mining tools will be added. He also suggested that TFP still need to do a full balance pass. I got the impression that TFP only had time to do a rough balance pass before releasing the experimental.

 
Auger does 30 ish damage per hit, but slightly more dps than the Steel pickaxe. The only tool that's actually good atm is the chainsaw.

 
Did you also put 4 or 5 mods into said shovel? because its not fully maxxed until its fully modded out as well. I don't think ity is, because a quality 1 stone shovel almost does 100 block damage on a power attack, this is only with 3 in str and none in miner 69'er. I do admit though the tools really got rekt in terms of block damage, I am used to a steel pickaxe hitting for 300+, not barely 100.

I think a17's main focus was extending the game, and vastly slowing down gathering of resources is the main way to do this. I wonder how good the Auger is in a17, i've not found one yet.

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Auger does 30 ish damage per hit, but slightly more dps than the Steel pickaxe. The only tool that's actually good atm is the chainsaw.
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Then I see this, really 30 per hit? that is.. garbage.. lol, should be doing at least 60-90 imo. The guns kinda got crapped on as well, I mean 32 dmg ak47? with how much mats 7.62mm ammo takes to make? Most of the guns need to have at least double their current damage to be viable. The pistol is no diffrent dmg wise than a wooden bow with stone arrows u make at the start of the game, it actually does less dmg once you get iron arrows. Yeah yeah dps, but sorry, for how many perks and mats bullets take to make I expect them to hit way harder than some wood bow and arrows I cobbled together out of twigs.

 
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In the dev thread, Joel said that mods for mining tools will be added. He also suggested that TFP still need to do a full balance pass. I got the impression that TFP only had time to do a rough balance pass before releasing the experimental.
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I wouldn't even say it was much of a rough balance pass. :p It can and probally will get fixed though.

 
Yeah, I couldn't stand it, I had to mod it. Ended up making it so quality affects more than just durability and damage now, though it mostly affects ranged weapons, but higher quality are also more accurate.

 
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