PC [A17 Spoilers] Claim Blocks!

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Agreed. On the server I tend to play on (PVE), I not only have my own personal base, but my "teammate" and I built other structures nearby for other purposes as well. We had a fortified market where people could buy whatever they needed later in their games, as well as a horde night kill pit that I opened up to the public sometimes, with public access in an underground fortified area, and secured kill pit below at bedrock. An admin could create several places for players to do stuff, such as mazes with rewards at the end, or large underground markets where players could have vending machines, allowing players to travel to one place to check out more players' vending machines and wares. This led to price competition, and something of an unofficial economy. A better idea would have been to give players something to do with the massive amount of Dukes they could rack up over time.

As a player that prefers to spend more time fighting into places and looting/scavenging, keeping my market going and brass in my inventory kept me busy and gave me something to do for a long time, especially due to my base and kill pit eventually using many turrets for defense and horde night safety (more for other, lower level players than myself). I hope we'll be able to alter the number of LCBs and their attributes such as claim area in A17.exp without it putting the servers into the modded servers category and browser.

 
I came in to add my thoughts to this. Previously, I was the main admin of a fairly successful PvE server (along with one other admin), and currently I'm a senior moderator at a different fairly successful PvE server (in our hierarchy, that's one step not too far below admin). I have experience managing both the CBSM and Botman server managers, as well as experience with standard game settings. There was also one other popular PvE server I played at for a long time before it went down. I never had any sort of mod status there, but I was a long time & well known regular player.

Anyways, with the "I'm not a noob" disclaimer out of the way, I figured I'd post my concerns. On every PvE server I've played on, or managed, the claim size was fairly small, yet there was no limit to the amount of landclaims any player could place. In addition to this, being a PvE server, we had a command that would literally give you landclaims for nothing, so you could easily build your base (or bases) as big as you wanted while keeping it protected from raiders and griefers (which are already prohibited, but people still try).

This change allowing only a single landclaim puts a serious hindrance on the spirit of PvE as we know it. Our plan is currently to make the claim size really huge, so players can still at least build one base of a decent size. This half-solution, as I see it, doesn't come without its issues, though. The downsides include:

• The increased claim size may still not be enough for players who like really big bases

• The limit of one claim prevents players from building multiple bases

• Both being limited to a single claim block, and the huge size that comes with the one you do get, destroys any possibilities of an intricate common area like /spawn existing where multiple players can claim their own small piece and, for example, build shops that other players can visit

• Even limited to a single claim block, the huge claim size allows haphazard noobs who didn't read the rules, trolls, etc to claim an entire skyscraper, for example, with a single claim block

Only allowing one claim block creates a lot more issues for the PvE community. I say this both as a player and as an admin. Things like the issue shown in post 18 can happen, but that is for server mods to police. On our server, we have rules against placing landclaims in cities, and if one is found, it's not hard for an admin to remove. Allowing only one claim block might cut down on this a little bit, but honestly, in my experience, most instances I've countered were noobs who didn't read the rules placing their single claim block given to them along with their bottle of water and can of chili in a city where they weren't supposed to. Far less frequent are the instances involving someone with any actual malicious intent to block access to large portions of a noteworthy area. Now, in our case, since we only get one, we're thinking about increasing the claim size to be huge so players can still build a decent base and cover the thing... but this also allows people to easily claim a whole skyscraper in one shot, too. So, we still have to police landclaims being where they're not supposed to be, but rather than usually being a slight annoyance, or even going unnoticed by most players, it could easily turn into a big hindrance if someone is trying to loot a claimed Higashi.

 
Even with another day to think about this, I'm still scratching my head over it.

Guess we'll have to adjust to it. See how it goes.

Just wondering why....

 
I think the largest reason for this change, is because the claim block now prevents spawns. You get someone covering a 300m area with LCB's that prevent spawns, and it really ruins the survival aspect of the game.'

I can agree with allowing more than just one. Maybe 2 or 3. More than that preventing zed spawns isn't really playing the game, and it will break horde and pathing mechanics. If you need that much protection from zombies, you can turn them off.

There is also a fine line here that the developers have to walk. This is a "survival horde crafting game". Which of those do you put first when you're developing? Survival, or the ability to create giant castles? IMHO, the core of the game is about survival, and with the current iteration of the LCB, being able to zombie-proof and area larger than 40-70 blocks is against the core aspects.

Currently it looks like modding this feature will require modifying the DLL, but I'll also admit I didn't really put more than about 5 minutes looking into the data for it right now.

 
Even with another day to think about this, I'm still scratching my head over it.
Guess we'll have to adjust to it. See how it goes.

Just wondering why....
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Two possible answers.

1. They do not understand that for a large part of their population, both pve and pvp, their players like to make massive structures and/or have multiple bases

2. They do not care about (1) above, understand the implications and yet dont give a damn

After years reading the forums the ONLY mentions people made about LCB's were requests to either add more functionality and options around them or for different types of them.

No-one, EVER, has asked for this type of retarded change because the people for whom LCB's matter (multi player players), understand implicitly why this is a TERRIBLE idea that stops a huge number of those players having fun in the ways they want to.

Reverse this nonsense now

- - - Updated - - -

I think the largest reason for this change, is because the claim block now prevents spawns. You get someone covering a 300m area with LCB's that prevent spawns, and it really ruins the survival aspect of the game.'
I can agree with allowing more than just one. Maybe 2 or 3. More than that preventing zed spawns isn't really playing the game, and it will break horde and pathing mechanics. If you need that much protection from zombies, you can turn them off.

There is also a fine line here that the developers have to walk. This is a "survival horde crafting game". Which of those do you put first when you're developing? Survival, or the ability to create giant castles? IMHO, the core of the game is about survival, and with the current iteration of the LCB, being able to zombie-proof and area larger than 40-70 blocks is against the core aspects.

Currently it looks like modding this feature will require modifying the DLL, but I'll also admit I didn't really put more than about 5 minutes looking into the data for it right now.
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Conflation, look it up

Having multiple claims covering large areas never, EVER, in ANY alpha, stopped hordes spawning. If you decided claims stop spawning in the SAME alpha change cycle that you made this idiotic lcb change then someone, or multiple somesones, obviously did not think through the implications....I know, surprised face...

 
This is exactly why.
It goes against the entire concept of a land claim block.

In a PVP setting the claim spam can not possibly be a good thing, which is apparent from some servers increasing the crafting cost to ridiculous levels... which only makes it more devastating if you get killed as a noob and lose the one claim block that you have.
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Sorry Gazz but youre just showing your ignorance there about those servers which made the recipes very expensive.

You see on those servers they also disabled you spawning in with your first claim and you can type /claim when you feel secure to spawn it in so the scenario you mentioned simply does not happen

 
Currently it looks like modding this feature will require modifying the DLL, but I'll also admit I didn't really put more than about 5 minutes looking into the data for it right now.
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Oh no!

I hope that's not the case.

v3RURPu.gif


 
I think the largest reason for this change, is because the claim block now prevents spawns. You get someone covering a 300m area with LCB's that prevent spawns, and it really ruins the survival aspect of the game.'
I can agree with allowing more than just one. Maybe 2 or 3. More than that preventing zed spawns isn't really playing the game, and it will break horde and pathing mechanics. If you need that much protection from zombies, you can turn them off.

There is also a fine line here that the developers have to walk. This is a "survival horde crafting game". Which of those do you put first when you're developing? Survival, or the ability to create giant castles? IMHO, the core of the game is about survival, and with the current iteration of the LCB, being able to zombie-proof and area larger than 40-70 blocks is against the core aspects.

Currently it looks like modding this feature will require modifying the DLL, but I'll also admit I didn't really put more than about 5 minutes looking into the data for it right now.
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Landclaims never stopped spawns in the past. I've personally had zombies spawn in my base (which was 100% covered by landclaims). I see no reason to stop them from spawning zombies now, either. Landclaims were never for stopping zombies. They didn't prevent spawns, and they gave no resistance to other claimed blocks vs zombies. Their only purpose was to make it harder for players to raid you, and they did that well. Those settings were also configurable. They could be invincible vs players, or only grant a small defensive bonus, depending on the settings.

 
...bye bye an awful lot of players unless reversed.
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Does that include you?

As a person who only plays SP [or co-op with friends], this has zero impact on me.
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I've never even used my LCB, and I play on a PvE server. *shrug*

What people probably should remember: This game is a WiP. Time and again TFP has changed things based on community feedback. No need for end-of-the-world melodrama.

 
easy fix

Remove spawn protection from the block called LCB

Remove restrictions on having more than 1 LCB

Add spawn protection to the block called sleeping bag for which the code ALREADY exists whereby you can only have one active one

Now you have the devs desire for spawn protection in place

Now you have the players wish for LCB not to be changed reverted to how it was before

Everyone gets what they want.

 
Been running a server for over 3 years. Been playing since Alpha 1. This is the first time (at least that I can remember) where I stop and think WTF? Speechless on this change. Definitely need some time to digest and go over all the possible ramifications of such a change in a big PvE community scenario. But initially nothing good comes to mind.

 
I've never even used my LCB, and I play on a PvE server. *shrug*
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You're probably fortunate not to have been raided. There's plenty of players who join PvE servers and still attempt to raid, or even completely take over a player base. LCBs effectively stop this.

What people probably should remember: This game is a WiP. Time and again TFP has changed things based on community feedback. No need for end-of-the-world melodrama.
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Which is why I'm here to express my concerns. :smile-new:

easy fix
Remove spawn protection from the block called LCB

Remove restrictions on having more than 1 LCB

Add spawn protection to the block called sleeping bag for which the code ALREADY exists whereby you can only have one active one

Now you have the devs desire for spawn protection in place

Now you have the players wish for LCB not to be changed reverted to how it was before

Everyone gets what they want.
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I think that's exactly how it is already...

 
You're probably fortunate not to have been raided. There's plenty of players who join PvE servers and still attempt to raid, or even completely take over a player base. LCBs effectively stop this.


Which is why I'm here to express my concerns. :smile-new:

I think that's exactly how it is already...
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I beleive thats how its SUPPOSED to work in A16 but most people report sleeping bags blocking spawns as not working, my own experience support it never having worked.

Now if they got the code to block spawn working on 'one' block, LCB's, there is no reason they cant apply that fix to another block 'sleeping bags'

 
Why was it necessary to add spawn protection to LCBs? I don't get it.
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My guess is that the alternative was making the bedroll Skybox to Bedrock like the LCB for Spawn Protection and that might have been Sleeper and other spawn exploitable.

By having LCB be Spawn Protective it would allow a Skybox to Bedrock area which could be walled in and protected from internal spawns. Whereas bedroll is only a small radius; useful only to cover a temp rest area, or your emergency hidden spawn after death hide-away.

One suggestion I saw that I thought was good (forgive me I forget where I read it, but been thinking about it): A Builder Claim Block which would work as LCB in A16 & Earlier with the same PVP protection and NO Spawn Protection.

This would allow

LCB: Main Base (Spawn Protected via LCB, PVP Protected via the current LCB settings for durability).

BCB: Building large structures, roads, traintracks, subways, etc (NOT Spawn protected, PVP protected via the current LCB settings or similar BCB specific, ideally add setting for max BCBs per player as well a setting for BCB Claim size)

Bedroll: Getaway/temp/small safe area (Spawn Protected in the tiny bedroll radius, no PVP durability protection).

Note: some of this based on the assumption LCB Spawn Protection is skybox to bedrock like it is for the durability settings.

Perhaps with the new buff system they could even make it so each new BCB had an exponential crafting cost increase. Create a CVAR, update each time a BCB is crafted, modify crafting cost based on value of CVAR. I don't remember that massive list Kniyajuu posted well enough to know if it could handle the granularity of adjusting cost based on a single specific item or not. Be an interesting experiment.

 
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My guess is that the alternative was making the bedroll Skybox to Bedrock like the LCB for Spawn Protection and that might have been Sleeper and other spawn exploitable.By having LCB be Spawn Protective it would allow a Skybox to Bedrock area which could be walled in and protected from internal spawns. Whereas bedroll is only a small radius; useful only to cover a temp rest area, or your emergency hidden spawn after death hide-away.

One suggestion I saw that I thought was good (forgive me I forget where I read it, but been thinking about it): A Builder Claim Block which would work as LCB in A16 & Earlier with the same PVP protection and NO Spawn Protection.

This would allow

LCB: Main Base (Spawn Protected via LCB, PVP Protected via the current LCB settings for durability).

BCB: Building large structures, roads, traintracks, subways, etc (NOT Spawn protected, PVP protected via the current LCB settings or similar BCB specific, ideally add setting for max BCBs per player as well a setting for BCB Claim size)

Bedroll: Getaway/temp/small safe area (Spawn Protected in the tiny bedroll radius, no PVP durability protection).

Note: some of this based on the assumption LCB Spawn Protection is skybox to bedrock like it is for the durability settings.

Perhaps with the new buff system they could even make it so each new BCB had an exponential crafting cost increase. Create a CVAR, update each time a BCB is crafted, modify crafting cost based on value of CVAR. I don't remember that massive list Kniyajuu posted well enough to know if it could handle the granularity of adjusting cost based on a single specific item or not. Be an interesting experiment.
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IF youre assumption is correct, that would also be a feasible solution

 
Why not place a claim block and have that mark the center then allow the user to upgrade the distance it covers and/or durability via duke tokens or something; then make it possible for server admins to modify the effectiveness/cost/cap of the upgrades.

 
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