PC A17 Pointless base building

I understand the concept, just wish walls meant something instead of having to build AI "cheese" labyrinths.
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This.

You've given us a bunch of traps that don't work (too weak or behind 20+ levels or electricity) and made them ignore such traps? The only viable option is to "cheese" the AI. Thats gonna get old fast and Im sure thats not what you guys intended.

lord_ahriman

"2) Bonus when attacking blocks should be toned down (except digging, it's perfect because hidding underground is BS, imo)"

I get this, but then why not make them dig ONLY on 7 day horde nights. That way we can have a nice bed, tv, workbenches and some living space below. (just not on horde night as they will get in)

 
I don't like them digging, as it has unintended consequences.

Going UP the stairs in a POI, then digging down through the floor (or through the stairs themselves), instead of following the stairs.

They are STILL too stupid to go around big rocks and even some trees. I've watched them just plow through a 1200 tree because they didn't have LOS of me. I move offside a bit, then they come.

But digging/and the supersmash on blocks? Um, needs work.

 
Okay so I have given A17 a good try. Spent a good number of hours levelling, building bases, crafting (whats left of it) etc etc. And I have to say that some aspects I'm actually quite enjoying. The new traps, vehicles and randomised building designs are amongst the plus points. I dont like that the working jail cell doors were removed, I thought they were a pretty neat addition and the metal spike traps that chopped off the zombies legs...they need to be put back in also. However, I don't care what y'all say....its impossible and I mean IMPOSSIBLE to create a base that defends well against a blood moon horde. I just read in another thread where one of the mods commented about people being defeated and how there were ways to create defensive bases that lasted....perhaps if your base is guarded by superman sure but not that I could see with the current setup of the game. And il share why :
So, my first base was created from wood and then upgraded to iron with a few upgraded defensive doors, raised platforms, some spikes etc etc. I won't bore you with the full details of this one but I was overrun in less than 30 seconds. The blood moon horde with its insane damage pretty much went through iron like a knife through butter. I built a few other bases and the same things happened...I figured tho this was to be expected given the materials.

So this got me thinking. Given how strong the horde now is and given the ridiculous spawn factor....what would it take to actually defend against a blood moon horde. So I switched on the debug menu for no clip, opened the creative menu and set to work.

--Base 1 : Reinforced Concrete--

So I created this base with two block thick reinforced concrete walls. Four vault doors leading in on all four sides as I know the zombies seem to be attracted to doors first and foremost. Inside you go up a ramp to yet another vault door into a central room with a further four vault doors leading to an outside platform. Surrounding the base I had an electric fence and wooden spikes with two turrets at each entrance. And finally some bars extended out around the edge to prevent the jumping zombies.

This base lasted aprox 2 minutes 8 seconds. And no im not exaggerating. The zombies shrugged off a hail of turret bullets, came out unfazed from the electric fence and broke the fence inside of 5 seconds and pwnd the wood spikes like they were made of butter. Then came the vault door, ya know the strongest door in the game. They knocked their way through every single one and several walls in no time at all, overran the base, several of them just up and walked up a four block high concrete wall....somehow... and then death...good times.

Base effectiveness grade : 0/10

--Base 2 : Multi vault doors test base--

So after the previous base got utterly pwnd in a matter of minutes I started wondering about the effectiveness of the vault doors. So I set up a test. I placed four vault doors at the entrance of a simple square base and set the server time to a blood moon day and waited to see what happened...doors lasted less than 4 minutes, zombies overrun, death.

Multi vault door effectiveness grade : 0/10

--Base 3 : Underground hideout--

Wait....what underground hideout....every time I tried to mine the ground caved in on me....

Base effectiveness grade : -7/10 (RIP mining)

--Base 4 : Ultimate f**k you zombies house base in diresville--

So I went into Diresville and took over a house. I killed one zombie and then suddenly a further 6-7 from out of no where randomly appeared right next to me. I ran for the next room, whilst killing them with the AK only to disturb 3 more sleeper zombies which caused another group to pop pretty much onto of me....so you can imagine the outcome.

Then, once that house was dealt with i knocked out all of the lower outer walls up to four blocks in height and replaced them with stainless steel. Inside of the house I used the nail gun to upgrade all of the walls, especially ones surrounding doors to the max they would go. I then knocked out every single door from basement to top floor and then replaced them all with vault doors. I then destroyed the steps at the front and back of the house and used the stainless steel blocks to create some walls around the porch, 3 blocks high, and then put a double set of bars front and back over the rest so I could shoot at zombies if needs be. Then I went around the outside of the house placing iron spikes in a 2-3 height stacked row. In front of that I put two layers of electric fencing and then a further layer of barbwire fence. I then placed 4 turrets at the front of the house and four at the back. Two facing frontward and two facing out diagonally to the side. Added some candles running the exterior so I would have some light. Then inside...I added more iron spikes in front of all doors, both sides. In front of the walls next to the doors, both sides. These spikes pretty much ran all over the property. I knocked out any windows and replaced them front and back with bars. Then created two upper escape routes. One ladder to the roof with a vault hatch covering it and one door on the top outer wall that lead to a bridge that went over onto another building. A vault door covered this exit also. I did leave the interior stairs in place as I wanted to see how long it would take the zombies to reach me whilst on the upper levels. Oh and I added an extra layer of metal spikes running the very outer edge of the garden.

Then I went around and make sure that I had not missed anything and figured this should finally be a good enough base to survive a zombie horde night. How wrong I was...

I set the time on my server to 21.55 and waited and then at 10pm a horde charged straight at the front of the house and hopped straight over the first set of spikes and ignored them completely....doing well so far. The turrets started firing like mad but the zombies just shrugged them off and charged straight into the barbwire, destroyed it in seconds and then into both electric fences...both gone in about 30 seconds....then at the 3 stack high metal spike barrier surrounding the house. That succeeded in defending me for roughly 30 seconds until enough of them piled up to stand ontop of it..unfazed I might add...remember I said I only went four blocks up with stainless steel. Well standing on that gave them access to the 5th block which was now iron after being upgraded.. That went through after a minute and then not too long after that so did others. They hopped on up, hopped on in and jumped over most of the spike defences. Straight up the stairs, through the artificial upgraded wall I placed with a vault door in at the top of the stairs. Bare in mind by this point its realistically 2-4 minutes since the horde arrived. Then I turned on no clipping mode to see what else was happening quickly and found they had broken through all lower defences, into the basement, through several vault doors, and were now hammering on the ground floor vault door into the kitchen. I went back up top and within 5-7 minutes of starting the blood moon night....my base was overrun and death occurred AGAIN.

Base effectiveness grade 1/10 (it gets 1 because it lasted 2-3 minutes longer than my previous attempts)

That is insane....that base should hold up well against any horde and not be TOO badly damaged at the end of it. They pwnd that base....using the strongest block I could find and the strongest doors with a butt load of defences in no time at all. I couldn't even out run the horde due to their ridiculous spawning. They just kept popping around me no matter where I was.

What on earth are you supposed to build as a base so that you can survive a A17 blood moon horde. At the minute iv come to the conclusion that base building is now a pointless exercise and instead its best to build a few small wooden huts here and there with a bed and some storage boxes in and on the blood moon night just find a roof, destroy any stairs going up to the roof and sit there until its over. Even given that option, some of the zombies are jumping as high as the roofs themselves. Gotta be honest though, the latter option is way way way way less fun than having a base with at least SOME chance of defending like you did in A16. I am okay with a stronger horde...so long as we are given at least some chance to survive it and maintain some aspect of a base. At the minute it seems that, short of making a base with 20 block thick walls and 600 vault doors in a row with 63 layers of 10 block high metal spikes and 1400 electric fences, bases are a pointless endeavour.
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In my single player game, I took up in the Forge house and was able to repel the horde. Then on MP we took up in the fire station,

that really got breached but it was because we had sandstone under the walls. We repelled the horde and made some battlefield modifications to sure up the walls again and beat the horde. Though I did end up dying because I felt that the zombies would break into our "safe" room and wreck our chests. So i ended up kiting them around while my buddy sniped them. I've so far found that a base isn't 100% impervious to be an awesome change. You're getting your blood pumping and it's touch and go if you're going to survive.

The pillar base meta really took the away the drive to be creative since it was 99.999% effective. Let's see how it shakes out, if you don't like that the zombies can chew through blocks just turn the durability up. Or you can take the route of having a "horde base" that you know will be destroyed with your goal being to just survive the night. It is 7 days to die, not 7 days to build an impervious base that isn't really exciting or challenging at all.

At least you were more constructive then most of the folks giving feedback. <3

 
haha yea its something. I had an underground base. It was at the deepest level and got to me in 2minutes. They did not kill me tough. Nerf pulld my ♥♥♥♥ out of there

 
On my server we have set up our base in an underground bunker that we found. Then every 7th night we go out to a building out of town and wait at the top. Once they have done enough damage, we fall, or we get bored and jump we just run for it. We now run faster than the zombies do so we can easily out run them. Don't even need a blood moon hold out anymore which is kind of disappointing.

 
I understand the concept, just wish walls meant something instead of having to build AI "cheese" labyrinths.I like having to be proactive defending the base - Now if only the zombies were not so predictable (see last post).

What if some zombies just started smashing away at the maze, while some followed the path. Which ones do you deal with first?
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Its standard operating procedure when dealing with a physically and numerically superior hostile to exploit flaws and lapses in intelligence. Players can't outdamage a horde. In fact, they can't outdamage a horde to the point where they can't outtank them, thanks to the tantrum bonus and 250-block-damage workers and cops. There really isn't even anything in the players arsenal that compares with zombie supermans punching holes through steel and jumping short buildings.

So we seek to be smarter, and that involves exploitation. We exploit intelligence constantly when we bait, hunt, and hide from animals that outshine us in both physical strength and sensory perception. Pest control is an exploitation of intelligence. Construction and architecture is an exploitation of physics.

So yeah. No matter how the rules change, if there's a way to win, it's going to be some kind of exploitation, intended or not.

 
For people who want to retain some of the defenses for their POI bases - I decided to dig a 1 block deep row around my "house" and filled it with spikes. Added a double Secure Door and upgraded it instead of the regular entrance. Surprisingly the Zs that walk around (even the wandering hordes) first push against the ditch with the spikes, to finally come at the door. At least some of them die before they start knocking on the entrance.

My 14 day horde was taken at a pillar arena i constructed from cobble, though each pillar was 2x2 and i was standing on the 5th block up. Practically all of the pillars survived, with some of them damaged because of the exploding cops. Feel free to add anything on the floor below, i used wood spikes, but they got destroyed fast. I think the more such 2x2 pillars the better, because you can shift from one spot to the other.

 
I guess the moral of the story is we are going to need two bases. A place to live in and craft, and a place to survive the hordes.

- P
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Yup. that's what we're doing. Put our fight/horde setup in a giant empty field and are living/crafting in a poi we took over nearby. Also reinforced the POI to hell and breakfast because you're GONNA get hordes or screamers at night or as you craft and nothing's going to stop that.

 
I do not understand why there is no compensation.

If the AI ​​improves and our progress is much slower, then I propose the blocks should be much harder and the defenses like barricades and traps also much harder.

 
My 14 day horde was taken at a pillar arena i constructed from cobble, though each pillar was 2x2 and i was standing on the 5th block up. Practically all of the pillars survived, with some of them damaged because of the exploding cops. Feel free to add anything on the floor below, i used wood spikes, but they got destroyed fast. I think the more such 2x2 pillars the better, because you can shift from one spot to the other.
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I'm sure the way the game i set up now this is going to become one of the few staple methods of dealing with a horde, because this is low cost, low risk.

 
The last hope for humanity:
View attachment 25608View attachment 25609

It's a cheater base in everyway: 120minute days, used traders forge and mixer and 200% loot so I don't starve while making it. Also againsts the traders invincible walls! :)
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Don't count on this. I did the same thing, except a zombie jumped OVER the wall. Used a very large nearby boulder (one close enough that I can't destroy it) to jump the gap.

 
skylerkae, have you tried a base like this?
(ignore the low outer wall made out of wet concrete, that was the base being expanded to a new size, it eventually became the new outer wall. It still had the same design afterwards, just fatter.)

O3mugIp.jpg


That's the same pattern I've been using since A12 or A13, just with some refinements. It's hard to see in this particular shot, but there are little pathways expanding from the corners of the base with the iron bars that you can shoot through. I stand out there and shoot down at the zombies, as it discouraged them from attacking the walls. Note that the ground floor is isolated from the upper floors, breaking through a small section of wall gets them nothing.

I have yet to try this against a horde in A17E, however. I'm hoping it's still valid.
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Let us know after your first horde night. I survived with horde size set at 32, but it wasn't pretty. They took out all supports and walls for almost 20m under where I was standing. Then, when dawn finally came, the radiated spider I'd already put at least 20 arrows in got me when I came down to try to finish him. (Radiated spider on the 2nd horde night?)

https://imgur.com/a/blcGz2p

 
I'm sure the way the game i set up now this is going to become one of the few staple methods of dealing with a horde, because this is low cost, low risk.
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Make each platform 2x2 pillars, then have each platform one block apart. The zombies will think you are in a new building each time you jump to a new platform! Keep them moving more and damaging less. Shoot the pukers and vultures first.

You can make an ever expanding loop of platforms as time goes on. "In war, mobility is god".

 
Welp!

After all this scary talk about Zeds preventing us from building bases.....

... I'm not so sure.

I used the same tactics I have been using since A15 and they still work.

Yes some adjusting was needed but very little.

Basically I started with this design.

XlTxDWP.jpg


0i5SCUw.jpg


Instead of just placing spikes on the ground around the towers,

I dug down three voxels near the base of the towers and worked my way up as I worked my way out.

Makes kind of a bowl at the base of each tower.

COMPLETELY messes with the spiders.

They jump sideways instead of trying to get me.

Roof over my head so Vultures aren't a problem.

Yes the zeds hit blocks hard but I spend the night running from tower to tower and so do the zeds!

If one ever falls, so what? Go to another.

Granted this is only Day 28 and there's a lot more to come.

Day 70 will be the real test.

By then, however, I'll have proper blade traps, turrets, and electric fences in.

Right now I have none of those and I'm doing fine.

The same tactic I used before works now.

Metal spikes with barbed wire on top.

Of course you can't do this by day seven or much of it by fourteen but by day twenty one you CAN stand your ground.

Hope this is helpful.

 
You're playing A16. That or I want a tier 600 crossbow! I'd put 100 storage mods and 500 flashlight mods (cuz I want to SEE what I'm shooting!)

:D

 
You're playing A16. That or I want a tier 600 crossbow! I'd put 100 storage mods and 500 flashlight mods (cuz I want to SEE what I'm shooting!)
:D
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Uh no that's a base design from A16.

I kinda mentioned that.

Read the post k?

It's the design I started with and have modified it for A17.

When I get to a decent day like say 42, then I'll post my new design.

No sense posting it now since I'm pretty sure it's going to change or even completely fail.

 
I haven't had a chance to put in a good chunk of play time in A17E, but I am big fan of the AI changes I've read about so far and I don't think they're a problem.

To me the bigger issue is that bases have been pointless for a while now, even before A17. If you look at the cost/benefit of building a base, you're much better off spending your time on the run, perhaps with small depots to store various supplies that you can mark on the map and return to.

The AI changes and other modifications have simply exasperated the problem with bases not being worth the time. Before you could spend a lot of time and resources on building a nearly impregnable base, and even though it was more of a luxury than a necessity at least it could withstand nearly anything. If bases are more vulnerable than they were previously and there's no adjustment to make them more rewarding then it's even more out of balance.

I don't think TFP wants players to find base building hopeless and frustrating or opt out of it altogether, so hopefully some changes are planned.

 
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