PC A17 is the easiest alpha for a long time (and the least fun)

[Doctor3D]

As a content suggestion to aid in progression and balance; Another thing I'd love to see when we get bandits to aid in progression and a way to balance them is aggression based on container value. Bandit raids would be less frequent or non-existent if all you had in your containers were say a couple stone-axes, some murky water and a sham sandwich. The sum of all containers in your land claim is too low and they don't have any desire for your stuff.

On the other hand, going back to where I used to have essentially an Oil factory outpost in the desert producing gasoline (Which next to antibiotics, should be one of the more valuable items in the game - my container value was through the roof)

So instead of a screamer horde - I'd have a bandit scout and he'd assess that the value of my base was VERY HIGH and i'd have lots of shootouts from bandit raiders to protect my oil.

But that wouldn't happen overnight - it would take a lot of progression to get there and it wouldn't be either instantly tedious from the start or me being just too OP shooting the same dumb bandits over and over that I did on day 1. There's a logical progression.

 

[Ghostlight]

Mining should be more necessary. You don't even need to mine in A17. Never need to. You can get everything to build a solid base and plenty of ammo on the surface.

I like a lot of your ideas a great deal, but not this one! I HATE building actual mines. Bores me to death. And for the record the surface boulders are greatly nerfed in A17, especially if you are mining for a co-op group as I am. Trigger-happy buggers too!! The game is trying to force to me to build a mine goddam it!

Gasoline should be MUCH more rare and a highly valued commodity. Crafting gasoline should be a much more involved process. I liked where they were going with the Bio-Fuel they took away. I used to make oil bases in the desert where I'd bring tons of bio-fuel to the desert and then go down and mine for shale and had a little mini-oil factory - it was a lot of fun..

Nooo. You are trying to force me down a mine again! And as for Gas, it is actually somewhat scarce now compared to A16 (again, with 4 players driving everywhere).

That aside, all your other suggestions are gold. Especially the bandit Scout....that's awesome.

 

[Doctor3D]

I like a lot of your ideas a great deal, but not this one! I HATE building actual mines. Bores me to death.

I think mining did sometimes take a bit too long before you found the ore. I think that contributes to that boredom a lot. So you'd sit there and hold down the mouse key while sipping your coffee. There definitely needs to be a bit more too it. When they gave clues to where it was on the map - that helped some, but yeah it could still get tedious sometimes.

I like the mining, but it's just depending on my mood. I always looked at it as a necessary part of taking something out of the earth and building something beautiful from scratch in this game. It's not the best part, but it was a requirement that I accepted and frankly liked having it. Sometimes..I just like the atmosphere of mining - you're down in a deep hole in the middle of the apocolypse the undead are above you wandering around - it's dark and cold. You're hammering away at the pits of the earth..I dunno I dig it

There was talk of all kinds of cool stuff with mining - but a lot of it fizzled. Air quality, possibly something 'living' down there, etc Besides, once you perk up - it's still pretty fast and you don't have to do it for long.

 

[Kage848]

A good start would be controversial. Remove the basic mats needed for certain things from being craftable.
NO craftable mods over T1, remove things like duct tape, springs, mech parts from being craftable. It will promote more scavenging and adventuring because you NEED those items. Gun parts can be brought back in a limited way to fit the new system so that they buff stats and are important. Perks need a nerf a bit so they are not the only way to increase power.

Sounds like some good ideas.....for a mod.

I'm already doing too much exploration, adventuring and looting. It's fun mind you but I don't get enough time to farm mats or build. Cant wait for that xp to be added to mining.

In all honesty it does sound like some fun ideas for a mod. RH4 perhaps?

 

[Ghostlight]

Hi Kage, love your vids, m8.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

So, how would you improve the late game without adding more grind and tediousness to the early and mid game?

More materials to build with (they did the opposite and removed stainless steel), which then allows for more varied zombies for lategame.

Bandits are planned since forever. But we can see with their zombie ai, why this gets delayed.

Settlements with more npcs that need help but might also be companions.

Faktions, your own settlement for npcs, more varied quests, more electricity and that is just from the top of my head.

There are SO MANY WAYS to make the game enjoyable for longer without making the early game an absolute crawl.

 

[Doctor3D]

I'm already doing too much exploration, adventuring and looting.

Seriously? Are you REALLY doing that out of necessity? Everything is still new so some of that adventuring and looting is surely just a bit of sight-seeing, no?

I've found myself even making excuses to loot at this point.

Most of the basic mats that you actually loot that make up the biggest portion of craftable items in this game are things like:

Mechanical Parts

Plastic

Glue\Bones

Brass

Springs

Electronic Parts

Cloth

Those things are everywhere - literally. Take a wrench to a tire and see how much plastic we get from those things. Just run around and loot trash bags and wrench cars and see how much glue and brass you get. Every light gives you electronic parts. The cars in this game are quite literally a one-stop shop for most things you need. I'm level 120-ish and throughout the entire playthrough just about every time I wanted to craft something and I didn't have whatever it was - I'd just go wrench a car.

Once you get to the late game everything you craft includes those same things just in combination with a stack of steel bars. Off the top of my head, I can't think of really anything that you need to go inside a POI. There two things that I have that came only from POIs were mods on bookshelves, a blood draw kit from a pop-in pills and a tool and dye from a working stiffs box.

Once the shiny wears off - you might possibly realize there's not much need for that adventuring. I actually didn't really start looting the POIs until AFTER I was already established and had base, weapons, ammo and armor and perked-up.

 

[JaxTeller718]

Sounds like some good ideas.....for a mod.
I'm already doing too much exploration, adventuring and looting. It's fun mind you but I don't get enough time to farm mats or build. Cant wait for that xp to be added to mining.

In all honesty it does sound like some fun ideas for a mod. RH4 perhaps? ��

RH is on v5. I dont think you played 4 *pout*

I get that people want mining xp but do you honestly think they are going to add a comparable amount of xp to it as you get from killing zombies? It seems to be the direction they want the game to go in for better or worse.

I tried preparing people for all of this

Ill say this while i think the number one priority for any survival game should be survival I also think they are punishing builders for no real reason. At least there should be a builders perk, where you get stronger wood,earlier concrete etc. That would fall in line with their love affair of perks and give people a real choice to make.

 

[ejlarson]

I can't imagine being Roland. Reading this forums would be the most confusing thing ever. This thread is a great example. OMG this game is too easy now! It's so easy, I had to turn the difficulty down! OMG!

 

[Ghostlight]

I get that people want mining xp but do you honestly think they are going to add a comparable amount of xp to it as you get from killing zombies? It seems to be the direction they want the game to go in for better or worse.

Should be down to time spent roughly. If spend all day hitting rocks and you spend all day killing zombies, we should level equally. And ideally I should be better than you at mining by the end, but that's a different thread.

- - - Updated - - -

I can't imagine being Roland. Reading this forums would be the most confusing thing ever. This thread is a great example. OMG this game is too easy now! It's so easy, I had to turn the difficulty down! OMG!

It's too hard, too boring and too punishing early on but then becomes the total opposite later (and much quicker than this happened in A16). I think that's why you are seeing contradicting opinions.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

I can't imagine being Roland. Reading this forums would be the most confusing thing ever. This thread is a great example. OMG this game is too easy now! It's so easy, I had to turn the difficulty down! OMG!

There is a difference that most people don't make.

It has become easier (except for cheating zombies on horde night and weird traps in pois with no counterplay and a fked gamestage) overall. It all just takes longer.

You need to stop every three hits because you lack stamina. That doesn't mean mining a boulder is more difficult. Just more tedious.

And that is a good description of A17

"Not harder. Just more tedious and dumbed down."

 

[Kage848]

Seriously? Are you REALLY doing that out of necessity? Everything is still new so some of that adventuring and looting is surely just a bit of sight-seeing, no?
I've found myself even making excuses to loot at this point.

Most of the basic mats that you actually loot that make up the biggest portion of craftable items in this game are things like:

Mechanical Parts

Plastic

Glue\Bones

Brass

Springs

Electronic Parts

Cloth

Those things are everywhere - literally. Take a wrench to a tire and see how much plastic we get from those things. Just run around and loot trash bags and wrench cars and see how much glue and brass you get. Every light gives you electronic parts. The cars in this game are quite literally a one-stop shop for most things you need. I'm level 120-ish and throughout the entire playthrough just about every time I wanted to craft something and I didn't have whatever it was - I'd just go wrench a car.

Once you get to the late game everything you craft includes those same things just in combination with a stack of steel bars. Off the top of my head, I can't think of really anything that you need to go inside a POI. There two things that I have that came only from POIs were mods on bookshelves, a blood draw kit from a pop-in pills and a tool and dye from a working stiffs box.

Once the shiny wears off - you might possibly realize there's not much need for that adventuring. I actually didn't really start looting the POIs until AFTER I was already established and had base, weapons, ammo and armor and perked-up.

I spent days 8-14 looting, exploring, crafting leveling, and just having a great time. I was looting items I needed, acid, guns, armor, mods, ammo, ect.

I did this for xp, fun and loot. Problem is my hordebase was not ready lol. I felt I needed to loot so much and kill zombies for the xp to progress. We need major exp buffs for mining and building.

So you say wrench cars and loot trash and you get everything you need? Not so in my game. I still need tons of more glue, duct tape and other stuff. Besides instead of looting trash and cars doesn't it sound more fun to loot the new pois?

As far as this I'm at end game I got nothing to do, I dont know what to tell ya. Same thing people have been complaining about since alpha 1 lol. You played the game and now are at the end. Start a new game? Think if new builds? Wait for the modders?

 

[JaxTeller718]

As far as this I'm at end game I got nothing to do, I dont know what to tell ya. Same thing people have been complaining about since alpha 1 lol. You played the game and now are at the end. Start a new game? Think if new builds? Wait for the modders?

And we arent even out of Experimental Modders have their work cut out for them dont they lol

In this regard wouldnt you agree 16 actually had a LONGER shelf life? Which seems very weird.

 

[Ghostlight]

I spent days 8-14 looting, exploring, crafting leveling, and just having a great time. I was looting items I needed, acid, guns, armor, mods, ammo, ect. I did this for xp, fun and loot. Problem is my hordebase was not ready lol.

I did basically the oppsite and had a solid base early, but by then I could make top tier items and had a ton of mods from what little looting I did. I will say this though, I did most of my play in co-op and the shared Exp is truly broken. I could focus hard on mining and building while being fed experience constantly by the actions of others. They really need to nerf the distance you feed like that, or nerf the amount you get. Hard.

Oh and p.s seems like Cars are a also decent source of Ammo. I am getting a lot of it just by searching them. I mean like 1 in 5 cars contains Ammo.

 

[JaxTeller718]

I can't imagine being Roland. Reading this forums would be the most confusing thing ever. This thread is a great example. OMG this game is too easy now! It's so easy, I had to turn the difficulty down! OMG!

You are seeing this because people actually had time to progress this branch. We were wiping and restarting so frequently no one could get an accurate gauge of anything other than the first few days or weeks. Now we are seeing the bigger picture after day 21 etc and I suspect the issues we are pointing out here will soon be the new normal if there isnt another Exo release in the next day or two.

 

[Kage848]

RH is on v5. I dont think you played 4 *pout*
I get that people want mining xp but do you honestly think they are going to add a comparable amount of xp to it as you get from killing zombies? It seems to be the direction they want the game to go in for better or worse.

I tried preparing people for all of this

Ill say this while i think the number one priority for any survival game should be survival I also think they are punishing builders for no real reason. At least there should be a builders perk, where you get stronger wood,earlier concrete etc. That would fall in line with their love affair of perks and give people a real choice to make.

You are machine lol. Well cant wait to see 5.

And no, I dont think the fun pimps will give us builders enough love xp wise. I was saying this in my stream yesterday. I hear tales of the pimps nerfing zombie xp by 30% and I kinda freaked out lol. Someone said, mining is getting a buff. I said it wont be much lol. If you spend 24 hours killing, exploring and looting and end up with, say 10k xp then you should get 10k xp for 24 hours of mining and building. Just example numbers btw.

I love the builder perk idea. Get on it Joel

 

[Kage848]

And we arent even out of Experimental Modders have their work cut out for them dont they lol
In this regard wouldnt you agree 16 actually had a LONGER shelf life? Which seems very weird.

I cant say yet. I had to bail on my day 14 horde base and run for my life. I have died 4 times in 14 days. Cant say that for any other alpha, or mod for that matter

As far as longevity i need to see for myself. I tend not to take others word for it. Like the guy that says leveling is too fast cause hes lvl 60 on day 6 but forgets to mention the 120min days or he exploited some screamer horde or something lol

 

[Ghostlight]

As far as this I'm at end game I got nothing to do, I dont know what to tell ya. Same thing people have been complaining about since alpha 1 lol. You played the game and now are at the end. Start a new game? Think if new builds? Wait for the modders?

Didn't they make a big deal about A17 expanding the time to endgame considerably? It has instead shortened it. Whatever you consider endgame (because frankly it varies from person to person), I guarantee you are going to hit it shockingly early compared to A16.

Example: some people might consider having level 600 of all their weapons and armour endgame, yet that's like day 30 here - and guaranteed for everyone due to the perk system. That would easily be day 100+ in A16, *if* you managed it at all due to loot rng.

 

[Kage848]

I did basically the oppsite and had a solid base early, but by then I could make top tier items and had a ton of mods from what little looting I did. I will say this though, I did most of my play in co-op and the shared Exp is truly broken. I could focus hard on mining and building while being fed experience constantly by the actions of others. They really need to nerf the distance you feed like that, or nerf the amount you get. Hard.
Oh and p.s seems like Cars are a also decent source of Ammo. I am getting a lot of it just by searching them. I mean like 1 in 5 cars contains Ammo.

The xp distance is 100m by default. I doubt most builders or miners are getting anything in most mp games.

Also big group exp sucks. 2 or 3 person groups are best. I'm leveling faster in so than mp.

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't they make a big deal about A17 expanding the time to endgame considerably? It has instead shortened it. Whatever you consider endgame (because frankly it varies from person to person), I guarantee you are going to hit it shockingly early compared to A16.

Then you dont know me very well lol. I can think of all kinds of cool stuff to do late game. And I don't hurry to it either.

 

[Doctor3D]

I spent days 8-14 looting, exploring, crafting leveling, and just having a great time. I was looting items I needed, acid, guns, armor, mods, ammo, ect.
I did this for xp, fun and loot. Problem is my hordebase was not ready lol. I felt I needed to loot so much and kill zombies for the xp to progress. We need major exp buffs for mining and building.

So you say wrench cars and loot trash and you get everything you need? Not so in my game. I still need tons of more glue, duct tape and other stuff. Besides instead of looting trash and cars doesn't it sound more fun to loot the new pois?

As far as this I'm at end game I got nothing to do, I dont know what to tell ya. Same thing people have been complaining about since alpha 1 lol. You played the game and now are at the end. Start a new game? Think if new builds? Wait for the modders?

I'm telling ya - you reach that same problem much much much faster than before... Shouldn't it be slower and slower as the game continues to develop and add more and more...That's all I'm saying. You're preaching to the choir about starting over...I do - do that. The problem is you got to do that even sooner..

And..ya..I love exploring the new POIs..but I don't 'need' to. That was my point.

It's good you did them first though - my problem is now i'm so OP that it's not scary when they fall from the ceiling. One-shotting ferals and two-shotting zombie bears. For science I stood and let an army zed beat on me for several seconds just to see what danger he actually posed. It took many seconds to get me nervous. Your health refils soo fast and I never get stunned. Get hit run back, your health is right back to 100% due to the perk. I've not even used hardly any bandages at all in this playthrough past that first slog. If it stays like this we will have to mod the hand damage for every entity. I think insane already does 200% more damage than default does. I don't maybe they changed that too though. Maybe it's just less now.