PC A17 How Long Would You Wait For A Pre-Generated Map to Build?

[SylenThunder]

Figure I'll set the stage.

Dies Fourth started a thread....

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/1744469130467342263/

I figured I could start a poll here, and we'd link it. (There was a previous thread by Jost I accidentally deleted in attempting to add a poll. Very sorry guys.)

Ok, Original RWG map 30k radius, or a total of 2827.43 square kilometers. (Since a9 or so. Not sure on size before that. I have heard it was "infinite" at one point.)

A16 RWG map 10k radius, or a total of 314.16 square kilometers. (Because the shakes past that were really bad.)

Navezgane map is 4k x 4k, which makes 16 square kilometers.

A17 RWG map will be 8k x 8k, which sets it at 64 square kilometers.

For reference, here is an image provided by RedEagle.



Click for Full Size

The outer circle is the current 10k radius map.

The square line is the A17 8k square.

The solid square in the center is the size of the current Navezgane map.

Estimates in the poll are based on data provided by Faatal in the dev diary where it is mentioned that the current map took approximately. (source)

...Tried out the new 8k RWG today and it took over an hour running in the editor. I think Kinyajuu said it was 5 or 10 mins in a build. I will hopefully get to help him with some optimizations.

Here is the calculated area of the above options.

8k 64 km squared

10k 100 km squared

12k 144 km squared

16k 256 km squared

17.73 314.35 km squared (Darn close to the same area as the current map.)

20k 400 km squared

Using the previous estimate, I calculated approximately how long it would take for terrain generation.

EDIT: A developer has answered concerns raised by the map reduction. Please skip to post #66 in this thread and read before replying with angry concern.

 

[Crater Creator]

These calculations assume the time scales up linearly with area. While there's a good chance that's true, it's also exactly what any optimizations would be designed to improve, some of which may already be implemented.

 

[SylenThunder]

Also, these calculations assume the time scales up linearly with area. While there's a good chance that's true, it's also exactly what any optimizations would be designed to improve, some of which may already be implemented.

Right, and it could go the other way too. As it goes farther out, it may slow down and take longer. I didn't feel like playing with curves without more solid data though, so I just did a flat estimate based on the given values.

My vote was for 12k, because if I was staring 6k or local MP, that's what I would be comfortable with.

I fully intend to roll 20k on my dedicated server though if I can.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

For me in SP 8k is alright if the cell size is 1000 by 1000, allows possible 64 building clusters. 1800 x 1800 yields only 19, if flat. Otherwise 10k at 1800 by 1800.

Sylenthunder isn't 12k the actual default now. because region folder yields 144 files.

 

[SylenThunder]

It's because it's a circle, not a square. Outer border is 10k from center.

In order to get close to the same area with a square, I calculated 17.72k across on the square.

 

[Roland]

Here's the thing. According to Kinyajuu, the maps exist separately from our Saved character data which is why we can start a new save on a new map. I'd be all for a 16k x 16k option even if it ended up taking 2-3 hours because I could start on Navezgane and while playing that and checking out what's new I could generate a new random map each night before going to bed and let it work itself out while I'm sleeping. At the end of a week I would have 7 different maps I could choose to play all of which would be ready to load much more quickly thanks to the pregeneration already being done.

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

I preview a lot of maps before I settle down to play after RWG changes just to understand and get an idea of how the worlds generally come out. I've got hundreds of preview shots posted on Steam (and those are just the ones that made the posting cut).

Assuming it is possible, I'd wait the 30-60 min for a 20kx20k once I've decided on a world/seed.

Heck, even longer for ever larger on more interesting seeds.

Click for Full Size

Just a slight correction. That is the 1/4 size version. Steam would not allow the full size version.

Details can be found here, including this link to the 20160x20160 full size version.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Sorry, I think I presented it wrong. I understand the square perimeter, touching circle perimeter. I meant that since Ken is converting usable area to a square vs circle. If cells are 1k by 1k, mathematically it would even out to your example.

That's what I have been doing now on 16 to get a walking visual of potential layout.

I tried to stay with whole number and no remainder in the radiation zone.

I keep forgetting its radius not diameter.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Roland:

good idea for me to remember. I zip my profile now anyway.

If they figure a way to have each of the smaller maps

load and unload as you go, eventually we can walk from one map to

the other. each with its own pregen rules. during same gameplay.

 

[insG_Drifter]

Gentlemen I guess I’m not following here. Are we saying wait for a selected seed to be completely built in a server environment, single or both? If I understand correctly we are talking about having the map fully built to eliminate loading while traveling and whatnot. For a single player i think 12 x 12 would be fine. Decent balance of time vs size. I assume this depends on hardware and such as well for overall time. If I’m setting up the server for random then I would setup and let it run to completion no matter the time. Plan ahead as it were.

 

[LuckyStar]

I don't care if it takes awhile.

I just grab a drink or do some laundry.

You only have to wait once.

~Lucky

Working-Castle-Tribute-to-A16-Plus-bonus-tips-video

 

[skullpoker]

Originally Posted by faatal...

Tried out the new 8k RWG today and it took over an hour running in the editor. I think Kinyajuu said it was 5 or 10 mins in a build. I will hopefully get to help him with some optimizations.

I could be misreading this, but it seems that the 1 hour cited was for "Editing Tools" and the 3-D viewable map. The 5-10 minutes in "build" would seem to indicate building the world before play.

Any official input on this?

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

I could be misreading this, but it seems that the 1 hour cited was for "Editing Tools" and the 3-D viewable map. The 5-10 minutes in "build" would seem to indicate building the world before play.
Any official input on this?

More, likely running in Unity Editor versus a build of the game from the code.

 

[Pizzalicious]

bigger the better baby

 

[Pico]

If you want people to accept the wait time, then you need to instigate two changes to the start.

1. Warn the player in no uncertain terms that map pre-gen will take a long time (with estimates, possibly based on a short test run on their machine), and

2. A progress indicator that leaves the user in no doubt that the process is indeed progressing, and not stuck in some endless loop.

The current game loading display is a good example... Loading Blocks.... Loading Particles... Generating Player...

Personally I found the old RWG map to be absurdly large (but I only play SP). If I can't personally explore the bulk of a map then I really don't want it.

My old 2 core processor and HDD would struggle to keep up the terrain generation whenever I was on a minibike, to the degree that I could ride into a boulder before it was even rendered, and I'd need to regularly stop to let the ground fill in a bit before driving any further.

As for the poll, provided I didn't need to dedicate resources to a different task, I'd be OK with it taking overnight to pre-gen.

 

[Jost Amman]

@SylenThunder : it's actually good my old post was deleted by accident... this one is MUCH more detailed + is a Poll. :applouse:

I voted for the 10k x 10k option which, IMO, is big enough for my SP games.

Now the real problem would be:

Do MP players connecting to a server for the first time need to have the map pre-genereted on their computers or will it be just downloaded from the server (which already did all the hard work)?

 

[Roland]

Going along with what Pico said we have to remember that what we are all willing to put up with in terms of time is not what Joe Average Gamer is going to be willing to put up with. That gamer wants to press play and within a few minutes be playing. If 10 minutes go by and the game is still loading they are likely to quit the process and assume there is a bug causing the world to freeze up during loading.

So yes-- Clarity and most likely 8k x 8k as the default setting for a pregen time similar to Navezgane but hopefully the option (or at the very least xml edits) to do a larger map and wait for it for those who want more.

 

[Roland]

Now the real problem would be:

Do MP players connecting to a server for the first time need to have the map pre-genereted on their computers or will it be just downloaded from the server (which already did all the hard work)?

I believe there are server owners now who have pregenerated an entire A16 map over several hours to increase performance on the server. I don't believe that each client had to do it in order to enjoy the benefits of faster loading chunks. There is a command to generate the whole map but I can't remember what it is. Someone will know it.

 

[KingSlayerGM]

I don't care about waiting. But I can see how this could be a dealbreaker for new players

 

[DaVegaNL]

I like that even the 1st option (5-10 minutes) is probably way longer than what the average gamer is wanting to wait before killing the application.