StrawberryDelite
New member
I heavily dislike the new skill and perks system of A17. It is extremely limiting and does not encourage the same diversity A16 did.
As an example, in A16, my friends and I were able to divvy up the different crafting skills between all of us. One of us did armor, another tools, another melee weapons, another ranged weapons, etc. After that, we still had points to put into our respective combat skills.
Now, we just have a few people be burdened with the int skills. These people are the ones who don't get to have any fun fighting. As for everyone else, they barely get to touch any crafting recipes related to the int skills. Because the crafting skills require such a huge point investment, it feels as if there's no room for our int-specializers to spec into combat, and vice versa.
Not only that, but some of these perks just don't seem very well thought out. Who is seriously going to waste points into Well Insulated when proper clothing management will completely negate it? Some of the Agility perks on their own look mildly interesting, but Agility as a whole is lacking as an attribute. It's just too much of an investment to put points into it when the other attributes have much more helpful perks.
Not to mention, the new skills take all the fun out of looting. I'm hardly finding any point to looting anymore... It seems the goal of the game is now to just kill zombies until I level up for the next tier of recipes. Instead of having several goals to juggle, as in A16 (the bookstore is more likely to have recipes, but the army base has guns I'll need for the upcoming horde night...), the only goal I have now in A17 is to just get more exp so I can craft everything that I would have tried to loot in the last build.
A17 hard-caps a lot of things that should be soft-capped. My favorite example of a good soft-cap this game has is the forge. To build the forge, you need a bellows. If you get lucky and loot one, yay! Early forge! If you don't, then it's no worries. You just need several iron pipes to build one yourself. You WILL get those Iron pipes, it just takes longer. The same goes for the cooking pot and grill. You may get lucky and loot them, but if you don't, you still have access to low-tier food recipes, and you'll be able to craft them when you have a forge. In short, a lot of things are just plain gated behind a level-grind, with no clear alternative to get to them.
That said, A17 isn't all bad. I love the new horde AI; blood moons and just fighting in general feels a lot more fun. I just feel more thought could have been put into the skill and perks system.
If it were up to me, I'd just bring A16's skill system back, but adding the new cooking, physician, and grease monkey skills.
If one desired to keep some semblance of A17's system, here's an example of something that would actually provide diversity:
Leveling up now gives Attribute points, Perk Points, and "survival" points, each their own pool of points.
Attributes are now STR, AGI, FOR, and PER.
Strength (Melee Powerhouse):
Perks are Heavy Metal (blunt weps), Stay Down, Flurry of Blows, Sex Rex, Heavy Armor and Shotgun Messiah
Shotgun Messiah replaces stun w/ dismemberment chance on levels.
points in Strength increase quality and available recipes of crafted melee weapons
Agility (Melee Utility):
Perks are Deep Cuts, Cardio, Charging Bull, Parkour, Stealth, Light Armor, and Automatic Weapons
Stealth should simply be all the current stealth perks merged into one; they all feel a little weak on their own otherwise.
Automatic Weapons instead give a small chance to stagger an enemy on hit.
points in Agility increase quality and available recipes of tools
Fortitude (Support):
Perks are Light Armor, Heavy Armor, Deep Cuts, Pain Tolerance, Physician, Gunslinger, and "One-two punch"
One-two punch is only applied with melee weapons, bow, and pistol; attacking with any of these weapons will cause the next attack (from anyone) to deal more damage.
Points in Fortitude increase quality and available recipes of armor
Perception (Ranger):
Skills are Archery, Gunslinger, Shotgun Messiah, Automatic Weapons, Deadeye, Run and Gun, and "Ammo conservationist"
Ammo conservationist gives a chance to refund a spent bullet to your inventory.
Points in Perception increase quality and available recipes of ranged weapons
Survival Skills:
Quality and available recipes of crafted items should be based on both level and the related attribute. This way, all your tools are getting better as you level, but your specialization will get better faster.
Survival skills should be similar to perks, but only purchasable with its respective points.
Contains all current Int skills, Living off the Land, Healing Factor, Slow Metabolism, Pack Mule, Lucky Looter, Headshot perks, and all Harvest Skills.
A system like this would now encourage players to specialize, while keeping them relatively equal. A group is no longer required to gimp some of their players to train crafting, and can still divvy out roles.
Different attribute "classes" now have clear roles in combat, but are not too penalized for using weapons they're not "meant" for. Some perks are in multiple attributes; they are simply limited by whichever of the two is higher. With the exception of the ranged specialist, each class has both a preferred melee and ranged weapon.
Keep in mind, since I mostly just get together with my friends to play this, I'm mostly looking at this at a MP perspective. It'd probably be needed to be balanced for SP. Also, it's not my job to develop this game. I have neither the time nor the motivation to properly conceive, test, and balance a system like this; I'm sure TFP could make a much better system if they had a clearer vision of diversity in mind. I've already spent far longer than I intended on this, so in we go!
As an example, in A16, my friends and I were able to divvy up the different crafting skills between all of us. One of us did armor, another tools, another melee weapons, another ranged weapons, etc. After that, we still had points to put into our respective combat skills.
Now, we just have a few people be burdened with the int skills. These people are the ones who don't get to have any fun fighting. As for everyone else, they barely get to touch any crafting recipes related to the int skills. Because the crafting skills require such a huge point investment, it feels as if there's no room for our int-specializers to spec into combat, and vice versa.
Not only that, but some of these perks just don't seem very well thought out. Who is seriously going to waste points into Well Insulated when proper clothing management will completely negate it? Some of the Agility perks on their own look mildly interesting, but Agility as a whole is lacking as an attribute. It's just too much of an investment to put points into it when the other attributes have much more helpful perks.
Not to mention, the new skills take all the fun out of looting. I'm hardly finding any point to looting anymore... It seems the goal of the game is now to just kill zombies until I level up for the next tier of recipes. Instead of having several goals to juggle, as in A16 (the bookstore is more likely to have recipes, but the army base has guns I'll need for the upcoming horde night...), the only goal I have now in A17 is to just get more exp so I can craft everything that I would have tried to loot in the last build.
A17 hard-caps a lot of things that should be soft-capped. My favorite example of a good soft-cap this game has is the forge. To build the forge, you need a bellows. If you get lucky and loot one, yay! Early forge! If you don't, then it's no worries. You just need several iron pipes to build one yourself. You WILL get those Iron pipes, it just takes longer. The same goes for the cooking pot and grill. You may get lucky and loot them, but if you don't, you still have access to low-tier food recipes, and you'll be able to craft them when you have a forge. In short, a lot of things are just plain gated behind a level-grind, with no clear alternative to get to them.
That said, A17 isn't all bad. I love the new horde AI; blood moons and just fighting in general feels a lot more fun. I just feel more thought could have been put into the skill and perks system.
If it were up to me, I'd just bring A16's skill system back, but adding the new cooking, physician, and grease monkey skills.
If one desired to keep some semblance of A17's system, here's an example of something that would actually provide diversity:
Leveling up now gives Attribute points, Perk Points, and "survival" points, each their own pool of points.
Attributes are now STR, AGI, FOR, and PER.
Strength (Melee Powerhouse):
Perks are Heavy Metal (blunt weps), Stay Down, Flurry of Blows, Sex Rex, Heavy Armor and Shotgun Messiah
Shotgun Messiah replaces stun w/ dismemberment chance on levels.
points in Strength increase quality and available recipes of crafted melee weapons
Agility (Melee Utility):
Perks are Deep Cuts, Cardio, Charging Bull, Parkour, Stealth, Light Armor, and Automatic Weapons
Stealth should simply be all the current stealth perks merged into one; they all feel a little weak on their own otherwise.
Automatic Weapons instead give a small chance to stagger an enemy on hit.
points in Agility increase quality and available recipes of tools
Fortitude (Support):
Perks are Light Armor, Heavy Armor, Deep Cuts, Pain Tolerance, Physician, Gunslinger, and "One-two punch"
One-two punch is only applied with melee weapons, bow, and pistol; attacking with any of these weapons will cause the next attack (from anyone) to deal more damage.
Points in Fortitude increase quality and available recipes of armor
Perception (Ranger):
Skills are Archery, Gunslinger, Shotgun Messiah, Automatic Weapons, Deadeye, Run and Gun, and "Ammo conservationist"
Ammo conservationist gives a chance to refund a spent bullet to your inventory.
Points in Perception increase quality and available recipes of ranged weapons
Survival Skills:
Quality and available recipes of crafted items should be based on both level and the related attribute. This way, all your tools are getting better as you level, but your specialization will get better faster.
Survival skills should be similar to perks, but only purchasable with its respective points.
Contains all current Int skills, Living off the Land, Healing Factor, Slow Metabolism, Pack Mule, Lucky Looter, Headshot perks, and all Harvest Skills.
A system like this would now encourage players to specialize, while keeping them relatively equal. A group is no longer required to gimp some of their players to train crafting, and can still divvy out roles.
Different attribute "classes" now have clear roles in combat, but are not too penalized for using weapons they're not "meant" for. Some perks are in multiple attributes; they are simply limited by whichever of the two is higher. With the exception of the ranged specialist, each class has both a preferred melee and ranged weapon.
Keep in mind, since I mostly just get together with my friends to play this, I'm mostly looking at this at a MP perspective. It'd probably be needed to be balanced for SP. Also, it's not my job to develop this game. I have neither the time nor the motivation to properly conceive, test, and balance a system like this; I'm sure TFP could make a much better system if they had a clearer vision of diversity in mind. I've already spent far longer than I intended on this, so in we go!
