PC A suggestion to fix the economy: NO MORE DUKES

Easy fix to over abundance of coin is for the devs to implement a coin sink. For example, many games have gambler merchants where you can buy an item type of a certain class which has the chance to be rare when purchased. Diablo 2 had a great system imo.

 
In a 16 i made endgame weapons

like a sniper with a 10 bullet magazin

a ak with a 75 Bullet magazin

a shotgun with special ammo (explosives, shock, fire,...)

Each weapon got a full inventory of coins as price (more was not possible^^)

Core statement

Make endgameitems, perceivable more powerfull but not imba for really high prices

 
just have cap limits for each merchant - like the elder scrolls already does. have the cap limit increase with perks, just like skyrim. perhaps change it so that traders that are far away from towns have higher caps

also i dont understand all this talk of there not being a sink. for me, my cap sink is simply concrete, cement, forged iron and forged steel. i do make those things myself but i stockpile as much as i can, cause you never know when you'll lose your backpack to a glitch and then have to recraft your entire supply of steel tools and steel armor (happened to me). then theres also springs, electronics, duct tape, and other random stuff that is common in most crafting recipes. again, try to stockpile as much as i can, cause you never know when your motorcycle stops responding to you and you can't use it anymore and need to build a new one (also happened to me ugh)

so tons of sinks already exist. you can never stockpile enough. also solar panels are expensive

 
If you make a trader cap so low that it affect a singleplayer it destroys multiplayer

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just have cap limits for each merchant - like the elder scrolls already does. have the cap limit increase with perks, just like skyrim. perhaps change it so that traders that are far away from towns have higher caps
also i dont understand all this talk of there not being a sink. for me, my cap sink is simply concrete, cement, forged iron and forged steel. i do make those things myself but i stockpile as much as i can, cause you never know when you'll lose your backpack to a glitch and then have to recraft your entire supply of steel tools and steel armor (happened to me). then theres also springs, electronics, duct tape, and other random stuff that is common in most crafting recipes. again, try to stockpile as much as i can, cause you never know when your motorcycle stops responding to you and you can't use it anymore and need to build a new one (also happened to me ugh)

so tons of sinks already exist. you can never stockpile enough. also solar panels are expensive
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In 17.1 in my long term game (less than 49 days) i had 502 000 Coins on stock after buying EVERYTHING i wanted

 
- cause you never know when you'll lose your backpack to a glitch

- when your motorcycle stops responding to you and you can't use it anymore

so tons of sinks already exist.
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The actual sinks you mention are .. bugs. To become economical sinks, the motorcycles would have to break by design, roughly every two miles, with the 17.1 economy :)

 
I believe the one and ONLY problem with economy is that economical aka barter and quest rewards perks and both locked together with all crafting perks.
These two should be completely separate, so you can either craft stuff, or get it from traders at better cost efficiency, both locked behind int will only keep creating problems and "rebalances" that screw up every single player but the one focused fully on int.
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good point!

 
In 17.1 in my long term game (less than 49 days) i had 502 000 Coins on stock after buying EVERYTHING i wanted
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This number alone says nothing without context. The question is how did you get this amount of coins ?

How many traders do you know and use ?

How often do you visit the trader(s) ?

What do you sell ?

You can push every system to the limit but that's not what the average player does.

 
This number alone says nothing without context. The question is how did you get this amount of coins ?
How many traders do you know and use ?

How often do you visit the trader(s) ?

What do you sell ?

You can push every system to the limit but that's not what the average player does.
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If we talk about moneysinks we need to be away of extrems.

Anyway, in A17.2 it would be more likely around 200k coins.

Means a few Moneysinks for lategame and all is fine.

I GUESS its not that hard to make imods that cost you great money but give only small advantages

 
If we talk about moneysinks we need to be away of extrems.Anyway, in A17.2 it would be more likely around 200k coins.

Means a few Moneysinks for lategame and all is fine.

I GUESS its not that hard to make imods that cost you great money but give only small advantages
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The players who play longer are mostly people who build large bases and like to decorate them. In Alpha 16, for example, I was always looking for these bar stools because you couldn't make them yourself and I liked them. Something like that would be nice to sink money into it.

And I want the possibility to buy an invisible pink unicorn for 500k coins :D

 
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The solution is to get rid of dukes...and don't replace it with anything.

Use credit....use credit PER TRADER.

I give the trader X items and do Y quests, and now I have Z units of credit, which i can spend to get items. No physical anything, no doing 3 quests for trader hugh and then buying a pistol from trader jen. This means that the player will always have to establish trust/credit with an npc before getting anything. It means no walking up to someone and giving them 10,000 widgets and taking everything valuable from them.

The fact that any ITEM is used becomes pointless.

Either the item is useless, in which case why are people accepting it in return for valuable goods in an unstable, post-apocalyptic society

Or the item is useful, which just opens up rampant abuse to be able to spam acquire huge amounts of something useful (and if it is endlessly available, it's value drops and drops the more prevalent it is until its useless again). If bullets become currency, then all that will happen is that bullets will cease to be the supply bottleneck they are now, and something else will replace them.
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IMO this is the best solution (even though I like the "weird west/hell on earth"-vibe of the original idea)

1) Individual credit lines solve the PvP problem and

2) add the possibility to limit indivudual credit balance

3) You also get a reputation system on top

4) It would feel more like a primitve exchange trade system with the trader having the upper hand as you have to give him credit, but he doesn't give you any. In other words Trader Rekt compatible

I would add a simple rule to it: If a credit balance limit exists it is only enforced when you exit the trader dialog. This makes it possible to purchase legendary weapons/armor/mods with prices above the limit. Players would hoard diamonds or gold again as a high value trade item for buying such stuff

 
IMO this is the best solution (even though I like the "weird west/hell on earth"-vibe of the original idea)
1) Individual credit lines solve the PvP problem and

2) add the possibility to limit indivudual credit balance

3) You also get a reputation system on top

4) It would feel more like a primitve exchange trade system with the trader having the upper hand as you have to give him credit, but he doesn't give you any. In other words Trader Rekt compatible

I would add a simple rule to it: If a credit balance limit exists it is only enforced when you exit the trader dialog. This makes it possible to purchase legendary weapons/armor/mods with prices above the limit. Players would hoard diamonds or gold again as a high value trade item for buying such stuff
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Well i know we are not soo many who play this way, but map hopping would be a pain with this system

 
If you make a trader cap so low that it affect a singleplayer it destroys multiplayer
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In 17.1 in my long term game (less than 49 days) i had 502 000 Coins on stock after buying EVERYTHING i wanted
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What'd you craft to get 500k coins? i'm crafting knives, armor and etc, but it takes forged iron or forged steel, and i don't have that much ore veins left. so i have to go out and buy it. i'm also selling stone 6k at a time. eventually though traders get bored with the stuff i sell so i have to go out further

 
This number alone says nothing without context. The question is how did you get this amount of coins ?
How many traders do you know and use ?

How often do you visit the trader(s) ?

What do you sell ?

You can push every system to the limit but that's not what the average player does.
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No, not everyone does. However, a few does, and then TFP will balance/nerf based on those numbers.

I like it as much as common people liked poll taxes in the 13th century.

 
I don't understand the big issue here. Honestly. Regardless of how the economy system is setup we'll all find ways to gain Dukes to buy what we want, if we really want what is being sold at the moment. If someone has a box of full of Dukes, or someone has to make 3 clubs, 3 pickaxes, and 3 fire axes to sell to get what they want/when they want it.... What really is the difference. Call it Dukes, make it ammo, use dollars, it makes no difference lol. Ammo = more exploitable than Dukes (or any other place holder to me) because I can just mine for 3 days to make 18,000 9mm rounds and buy whatever I want, with plenty of ammo left over.

The Traders should feel like a rip-off in the early stages of the game, you literally start with nothing of value. By late game we should have the advantage over the Trader due to us looting and leveling. It's natural progression the world of video games.

 
Very nice idea. I personally hate keeping coins in me. Credit and reputation are the way to go. Credits will be a form of a personal account with the trader and reputation will allow the trader to provide the player with better offers and some...special items.

 
IMO this is the best solution (even though I like the "weird west/hell on earth"-vibe of the original idea)
1) Individual credit lines solve the PvP problem and

2) add the possibility to limit indivudual credit balance

3) You also get a reputation system on top

4) It would feel more like a primitve exchange trade system with the trader having the upper hand as you have to give him credit, but he doesn't give you any. In other words Trader Rekt compatible

I would add a simple rule to it: If a credit balance limit exists it is only enforced when you exit the trader dialog. This makes it possible to purchase legendary weapons/armor/mods with prices above the limit. Players would hoard diamonds or gold again as a high value trade item for buying such stuff
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I always felt this was how "trading" should work in this game. Extra bonus is that it extends to when random NPCs are added: Random family needs food...willing to give a huge amount of "credit" for food, but nothing for anything else, and has some ammo, an engine, and a wrench to "sell" with the credit....basically a fully functioning dynamic/radiant quest system created out of an intangible, nontransferrable currency.

If TFP feels the need to fiddle with it, it could even decay on a per-day basis (maybe even decay an increasing amount for a player who has been in a party at any point in the last day....suddenly multiplayer is (admittedly crudely and imprecisely) more balanced). or items can shift in cost based on supply and demand, both visible (the trader has 1) 3000 or 2) 100 cement, the price per 100 will be a lot higher, both buying and selling in case #2), and invisible (game randomly determines this day that the trader is buying ammo at a premium, paying little to nothing for stone, selling tools at a huge markup, and selling food at a massive discount....due to....the illusion of a larger world beyond the player's reach?)

 
Dukes + trader= limited supply of anything from trader. If you ever need more you gota mine/ loot for more.

If you use ammo as currency, that will remove 85% of mining from the game. No more lead/coal/N for ammo crafting.

FIAT currency is what we use ILR. At least with the Dukes the trader is bound to sell you whatever ammo he has on hand at the time. You don't always have that privilege with the USD.

Also wana point out that, given enough time players will always be sitting on piles of something, be it dukes/ammo/items etc. I am totally fine with that because it is why I play the game. I like to build up wealth as I play and advance in the game.

 
Only useful items would have any value after an apocalypse.
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Fun fact, our ancestors use stones and rocks as currency. They lived in a world even more apocalypse-ish than what we have in 7 days to die because they have no guns no armor and no antibiotics. At the end of the day trade is based on trust, not the currency.

 
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