PC A solution to the "Run away from hordes" problem.

[PhiloStorian]

They can't detect you under 50 meters of dirt except on bloodmoon night and the lore for that has been established for quite some time now in the game: They can detect your position anywhere on bloodmoon night.

Fair enough. I haven't experienced that myself, but thought I had seen others claimed that zombies will dig quite deep even w/o a blood moon. My main point was merely that it isn't a matter of realism vs no realism. Like other horror experiences there is a certain amount of suspended disbelief, and zeds have their own precarved space in that regard, but certain things could be implemented that stretch that too far. For some, the digging falls under that.

 

[RipClaw]

Fair enough. I haven't experienced that myself, but thought I had seen others claimed that zombies will dig quite deep even w/o a blood moon.

According to what I have read so far the limit is in a depth of about 35m. If you are deeper than 35m the zombies seem not to hear you anymore.

I recently searched the desert for oil shale. At a depth of about 15m below the surface some zombies heard me and started digging. I finally found oil shale near the bedrock. In this depth I could even work with the auger without a zombie having appeared. Normally you have a lot screamers in the mine if you use the auger, but not a single one has appeared although I spent at least one hour in the mine.

Now you could of course say that you should always go that deep, but you can't control the depth at which you find the resources. Sometimes you find them deep down. Sometimes just below the surface.

What bothers me about these digging zombies in the mine is that I have to interrupt my work. Who has a job where you have to concentrate knows how annoying it is when a colleague disturbs you. The advantage of zombies is that you are allowed to shoot them.

I'm aware we can't get rid of the digging zombies. They stay in the game. But it would be nice to have some kind of mobile automatic defense that takes care of the zombies while I do my work. I hope the Junk Turret can do that.

 

[Roland]

Fair enough. I haven't experienced that myself, but thought I had seen others claimed that zombies will dig quite deep even w/o a blood moon. My main point was merely that it isn't a matter of realism vs no realism. Like other horror experiences there is a certain amount of suspended disbelief, and zeds have their own precarved space in that regard, but certain things could be implemented that stretch that too far. For some, the digging falls under that.

Immersion is always a sliding scale. Some people think zombies being able to break wood, stone, and concrete blocks is immersion breaking and flies in the face of lore. Also running zombies.

We do have options for zombie speed but even in A18 the new speed boost feature when a zombie is injured isn’t going to be optional afaik. Set zombies to walk and it still happens. I’ve looked for it in the xmls and haven’t been able to find it so far to even try adjusting the percent chance of it happening.

The point is that the devs are going to consider some aspects of the game as non-negotiable and people will have to deal or jump through more complicated hoops to mod it to something different. Personally, I hope the speed boost thing eventually becomes easily adjustable (unless it already is and I’m just looking in all the wrong places)

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I would like to see "running away" become its own kind of minigame with chance of failure and of course the reward of survival if successful. Some sort of use of torch light could be fun, some sort of driving challenge added if taking a vehicle-- basically anything to make it so the choice to run away leads to interesting game play and risk instead of just hold down a button and get guaranteed safety.

Agreed 100%. Even on default settings, running for your life should mean just that. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be possible to get away, but it should require zig-zagging through trees, parkouring rooftops, cutting through remnants, or trying to stay crouched and hidden after cutting corners while trying to catch your breath.

Freedom is nice, but when it comes to the base game, there should be few possibilities... take the risk of running away, or take the risk of holding ground and fighting the force. Pretending that you have to do this for a good game is silly. If someone doesn't want that kind of game, they already have dozens of settings to make the game easier. If for some reason they add something to the game that doesn't mesh with the kind of "easy" someone wants, and the dozens of settings already available still do not allow you to make it that way, it will be easier to mod that feature out than to try to mod it in.

 

[KucheKlizma]

Would be nice to have a lot more zombies in a horde, but make them a lot less powerful. So it's really a HORDE. Zombies sticking their arms through the windows trying to grab you, encircled on all sides. They don't necessarily have to fully destroy your base,if they can completely overwhelm you with numbers and make it hard to get out... you'll run out of food eventually.

There was a massive issue in earlier alphas where having more than 2 zombies resulted in 1FPS due to optimization issues (I believe it had to do with pathfinding). Not sure how many zombies the game can realistically handle now, but it runs a lot smoother.

If zombies are sufficiently optimized now, perhaps moving away from strong zombies and into power in numbers could solve a lot of issues and not just this.

P.S. Though as I wrote this I realize it's probably not the overall plan as we're getting TNT zombies in A18 :/

But how cool would it be if the game could handle 10000 zombies and the player had to relocate or suffer being completely drowned in them?

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Freedom isn´t just nice. It´s the one thing that makes the replayability even existing.

I still say you get more players (better for TFP wich is better for us, thinking of DLC´s and Part 2) if you have more freedom. And that you will loose players if you force them to do things.

A more challenging run away strat would be nice tough. It´s mostly that i cba to stress myself about getting my base prepared in time because i am rather in the mood for a loot run at higashi or something else than spending half the day repairing my base for horde night.

And yes everything is a mindset. But the first word in the subtitle is "Survival" not "Fighteverythingeverywhere" and in a survival game everything that let´s you survive is fair game. Otherwise it looses a lot of immersion and is just another shooter.

@KucheKlimza forget about tons of zombies, TFP choose looks over numbers.

 

[Roland]

With the ideas expressed in this thread players still have maximum freedom and nobody is forced to do something or not do something. What is the loss of freedom you are imagining? Nobody is saying that players will be forced to remain in their base and fight.

If zombies are faster in total darkness but slow a bit in response to torchlight, players can still run away but must use their torch to best effect.

If zombies spawn ahead of a vehicle so that the player must swerve and consciously drive with skill in order to not wreck their vehicle before the night is out then they are running but actively using skill to evade and keep their vehicle undamaged.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

a quote doesn´t count as characters this is a placeholder.

A more challenging run away strat would be nice tough.

You shouldn´t have to be a jump and run pro gamer to be able to do it tough.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Freedom isn´t just nice. It´s the one thing that makes the replayability even existing.

The thing about freedom, especially when talking about the freedom of choosing, is that with few choices you don't really have the freedom you think you have.

The way it is now if you want to play with horde nights on, you have the single choice to play horde nights that are too easily avoided. This is like having the freedom to vote but there is only one candidate.

What you are arguing against adds more choice, and thus more freedom.

You shouldn´t have to be a jump and run pro gamer to be able to do it tough.

And so we circle back around to...

you could lower your settings.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

This is a genremmix but not including jump and run, so no. Also i highly doubt that there would be an extra setting just for the jump and run part. Just lowering the generally difficulty doesn´t work here.

Imagine someone doesn´t like jump and run but wants to play on Warrior or higher because the rest of the game is just boringly easy on lower difficulty. Now what? Just stop to play because a few didn´t feel right about a possibility they could take?

What about MP? Want to stop people from leaving just before horde night by disabling the exit button during horde night?

Again no one forces you to avoid them, just fight them and think "bah, i am better than all those noobs who run away" or whatever makes you feel better about it. I really can´t get behind the fact that you can be bothered by something you could do.

That argumentation reminds me of religious debates somehow.

Oh and btw POI´s should be made so that you can´t use them as a base. I feel it´s not right to build my base when there is a so much easier way that i could take. (in case you don´t get it, that´s irony. But this is basically what you are asking for)

 

[RestInPieces]

I would like to see "running away" become its own kind of minigame with chance of failure and of course the reward of survival if successful.

This is like having the freedom to vote but there is only one candidate..

Well said.

I really can´t get behind the fact that you can be bothered by something you could do.

Personally, I am convinced you are trolling because it's unreal to ignore something, that has been deconstructed, replied to and explained with examples. And you aren't commenting on the examples or the actual points that have been made, several times on this thread, but just keep repeating the same things...

Anyway in the remote case you aren't and you can't get behind the fact that one could "not like something they can do", think that the game already creates problems you have to solve at every corner. Freedom is to be able to choose different solutions for these problems. What we are saying is that when the player can casually step away from the BM horde, the horde is factually NOT a problem of any sort that the player has to solve.

Now imagine that the player could fly, nuke the ♥♥♥♥ out of anything with his punches, be immortal etc. That would be the absence of "problems". This is not the case (unless you opt for it before you start your playsession, which is fine), because if that was the case there wouldn't be any need for guns, food, damage values, vehicles, etc etc, pretty much anything. Yet there is, because that's how a game interacts with the player - I can't explain it more plainly.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Imagine someone doesn´t like jump and run but wants to play on Warrior or higher because the rest of the game is just boringly easy on lower difficulty. Now what? Just stop to play because a few didn´t feel right about a possibility they could take?

Then they would face the fight. What are they doing on the hardest difficulties and with BM on? You are saying there exists this someone who turns BM on but doesn't want it, and has harder zombies on but wants to easily get away from them? This is crazy for starters.

Even so, I think maybe you are envisioning some extreme that would best be left to TFP to balance if it ever was a real problem.

Again no one forces you to avoid them, just fight them and think "bah, i am better than all those noobs who run away" or whatever makes you feel better about it.

a perfect thing to say to this person who thinks they should be playing harder difficulties but doesn't want to run and jump away from zombies.

That argumentation reminds me of religious debates somehow.

It's just a debate, it's not that special.

Oh and btw POI´s should be made so that you can´t use them as a base. I feel it´s not right to build my base when there is a so much easier way that i could take. (in case you don´t get it, that´s irony. But this is basically what you are asking for)

Nope. On harder difficulties, you should not be able to take over any POI just moments before BM and expect it to withstand it without proper preparations. Big difference there.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I do want challenging zombies. I do not want a jump and run challenge. And i do not want to fight the horde every 7th day. I usually do, but sometimes i simply cba and starting a new game because of that is a bit of a overkill...

There is reasons to avoid a horde sometimes and be it just for immersion, beeing tired or some other trivial reason. Again, switching bloodmoon on and off messes with the game. Wich is a very low priority bug ofc, so i see high chances it doesn´t get fixed.

Also Bandits. Did anyone think of bandits yet? (I didn´t either) Those won´t be as easy to escape without a fight. Running or driving away from the horde will result in having to face bandits. So maybe save that whole discussion for when bandits are in the game.

The best solution for you would be more Z´s coming at you from 4 sides. But as TFP choose looks over bigger hordes that´s out of discussion. Sadly. I would love to see a big skyscraper and Z´s coming out with no end in sight.

Also a reason for me to not want that, is that survival is already so low priority in the game. And forcing people into fiights will just make that worse, and turn it more and more into another generic FPS.

Also what about MP again? How you gonna stop people from just leaving the server?

 

[seagas]

@Roland I do not use or loot them the first few days. Same with the forge.
Point is, people here are asking for a problem to be solved that is only a mindset. And that solution takes away freedom for others. Now you can deceide what you wanna do without switching things in the menu. Like it would be in a RL situation.

It´s not a very good in game experience if i have to switch to the menu to keep the freedom of choice during a game.

You ask for solutions for a hypothetical problem, wich causes extra work for TFP and cuts the freedom for players. Just because you, a minority, could avoid them. Look at this thread, if this was highly wanted it wouldn´t be just us few here.

People who want to be forced to fight everything should play linear FPS/Tower Defense games. There is tons of them out there. The beauty of this game is freedom in the world and in your choices.

DING DING DING, we have a winner, excellent post good sir. As in RL, there always seem to be people who feel you must do things their way as that is the only way to do.

 

[RestInPieces]

DING DING DING, we have a winner, excellent post good sir. As in RL, there always seem to be people who feel you must do things their way as that is the only way to do.

DING DING DING, yet another person failing to understand plain english.

 

[pahbi]

Obviously I'm a little late to the discussion.

I really just prefer to make any activity as interesting as possible.

If your going to run away, go for it, maybe you might need a torch, or a decoy, or a planned escape route. Maybe you need to craft some noise makers or firecrackers that you throw to distract the zombies while you make your escape. Heck, maybe we could even have cool ninja smoke bomb things that cover your tracks.

The moral of the story is, make things interesting, make everything that a person has to do have variety and challenges and things to consider.

- P

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

DING DING DING, yet another person failing to understand plain english.

We understand you. What you don´t understand is that freedom of choice is importnant to people like me. Without having to switch to the menu during a running game session (wich doesn´t work well as we now) and suddenly needing jump and run skills for 7dtd if you don´t wanna play on adventurer.

It´s too bad there isn´t a lot of the playerbase in this forum. i would really love to see a poll on that. (one with enough people to draw a conclusion, wich isn´t the case, last importnant poll from TFP i saw here had like 300 votes while the peak of people playing was over 20K at once)

 

[seagas]

DING DING DING, yet another person failing to understand plain english.

DiNG DING DING, I guess your understanding of english is beyond your grasp. I fight the horde every night yet I believe the option to run from it is valid for some people, why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[George Gordon]

I saw this and my blood pressure was immediately up at a thousand.

People are really and seriously discussing, why running away should be impossible, and all zombies should instantly and always know where the player is, chase him by running 10x as fast as them, and so on?

Like, really? That is whats wrong with the game.

People get bored of themselves, and then think, its necessary to make the game impossible to play and survive for EVERYONE, by trying to metagame the devs into buffing zombies beyond oblivion.

Once you been jumped by 3 running zombies, and permastunned/stunlocked by them, and killed in 4 hits, on highest difficulty, you learn to enjoy and love the games difficulty as it is. The game already is far, far from forgiving.

If you buff zombie HP, DMG and speed, then you need to buff player base constructions as well. Cause these topics about hurr durr game too easy, sound like people playing with mods, or on modded servers, who get gyrocopters on day two, or just watch random YT videos of someone exploiting the game, thinking "damn their base is indestructible. we need the devs to change the zombies so they can destroy an undestructible base!".

Little wake up call: noone plays the same way. If they choose to, then there is little room to cry. If you copy someones idea for a indestructible base, and then cry that the zombies can be outran, etc., well, your problem.

The horde night is already a scourge for mankind, there is no need to make each and every zombie in a horde into a immortal berserker. Cause they pretty much already are. Zombies do ridiculous amounts of damage to blocks, because people were crying about their bases being untouched. Now bases crumble like sand castles.

TLDR

Nope. You need to be able to run away from the zombie plague. There is zero logical explanation for the zombies being the way they are already, as they arent classical romeros zombies, per se, anymore. No need to add another layer of unlogical buffing, by giving them 10x more speed.

 

[RestInPieces]

We understand you. What you don´t understand is that freedom of choice is importnant to people like me. Without having to switch to the menu during a running game session. (wich doesn´t work anyways, you can basically start over if you do so, at least in my experience)

Saying it's about people wanting to force other people play like they do, is ridiculous, especially after all this extensive discussion.

And as for "freedom of choice", if you did understand the point of this thread, you would have realized that our "problem" is the lack of an actual/meaningful choice.

DiNG DING DING, I guess your understanding of english is beyond your grasp. I fight the horde every night yet I believe the option to run from it is valid for some people, why is that so hard for you to understand?

Just read the whole thread.

I saw this and my blood pressure was immediately up at a thousand.
People are really and seriously discussing, why running away should be impossible, and all zombies should instantly and always know where the player is, chase him by running 10x as fast as them, and so on?

Like, really? That is whats wrong with the game.

People get bored of themselves, and then think, its necessary to make the game impossible to play and survive for EVERYONE, by trying to metagame the devs into buffing zombies beyond oblivion.

God, it's like they do it on purpose... Read the whole thread mate, or like, the last dozen posts, it would be a shame to have a stroke for no reason.