PC A solution to the "Run away from hordes" problem.

i still don´t see why this is even a discussion when people that don´t wanna deal with hordes can just turn them off in the settings? I mean why bother with a solution for something that can be avoided by default via menu?
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You are thinking about it in the opposite way.

It is not, I don’t like them, so shut them off. It is, I like them and want them to be better if I have them turned on.

 
Bah. Introduce the ■■■■ colonists to defend already.

You don't ~have~ to defend them (hop on that bike you dirty coward!...or mebee soulless nomad?), but then you lose whatever benefits your fledgling bastion of civilization was providing.

Voila! There's the incentive to stay and fight the horde.

Alakazam! There's the incentive to build a multi-layered fortress designed not just to keep the Zs out, but to keep colonists alive.

Presto! All the excitement of having to decide if you can hold out 'till sunrise, or bail out to save your own bacon.

No new zombies required and seemingly only minor tweaks to the AI...

...adding a whole new dimension to the game.

-Morloc

 
Considering the light and darkness effects on Zombies:- Throw out the idea of night being a separate setting and focus only on darkness speed enhancement. The difference would be that every difference in light level would affect the zombies, but you can change the highest level of influence, so the fastest they can go from being in complete darkness. So if they do speed up past player speed in total darkness or just Jog or something, the choice is yours.

- Zombie speed would be calculated based off the general lighting in the area (if they're indoors our outside, the weather, etc.), but based off the maximum addition defined when entering world, so for example we have: Very high light -30% of speed addition, regular light (cloudy day, sunlight indoors) no change, low light (dusk, dawn, heavy clouds, cloudy indoors) +30% of speed addition, very low light (moonlit night, unlit indoors) +60% speed addition, no light (dark night, unlit basements) +100% speed addition.

- Take into consideration the amount of light a day generates. Clear sky will have lots of sunlight and will slow down Zs. Cloudy day will generate less sunlight and will get them to regular speed. Heavy clouds with rain will be closer to dusk, almost night, but still visible, making the Zs go faster. Add to that a few timespans of night, when there is total darkness (speed up enemies even more) and where everything is seen in the moonlight (similar to heavy clouds). Indoors would shift the lighting 1 level lower, so if it's sunlight outside, inside it's regular, regular outside will make inside low light, etc.

I know this would require reworking how light works ingame, but it only means it would be harder to implement and perhaps not possible... Still i would find it very interesting to see ingame.
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This would be a great addition to the "horror" aspect of the game, though I fully support being able to turn the mechanic off at a minimum (if settings to tailor the speed changes are too complex to test).

With this setting on, an additional aspect to heighten the horror would be an option to disable the clock :-) For those who really want the tense, scary stuff. (I probably would not do that because it would freak me out, but I know there are folks who would really enjoy the challenge.)

 
With this setting on, an additional aspect to heighten the horror would be an option to disable the clock :-) For those who really want the tense, scary stuff. (I probably would not do that because it would freak me out, but I know there are folks who would really enjoy the challenge.)
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It's not difficult to deactivate the clock. You only need a HUD mod to deactivate the clock and you could also suppress the bloodmoon warning. If you had a random bloodmoon horde you would only notice that horde night is when the thunderstorm starts and the sky turns red.

On the Darkness Falls Mod, for example, the clock is no longer visible on the HUD. To know what time it is, you can only look into a vending machine. But even there you could deactivate the time if you wanted to. Except for the background noise and the general light conditions you would have no clue how late it is.

 
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You are thinking about it in the opposite way.It is not, I don’t like them, so shut them off. It is, I like them and want them to be better if I have them turned on.
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You want to force the hordes on everyone, no matter if they wanna deal with them or not, because you don´t like the hordes right now?

What?

Just play how you want, and let others do the same...

i agree that the hordes aren´t as fun right now as they used to be, no reason to tell others how to play tough.

 
It's not difficult to deactivate the clock. You only need a HUD mod to deactivate the clock and you could also suppress the bloodmoon warning. If you had a random bloodmoon horde you would only notice that horde night is when the thunderstorm starts and the sky turns red.
On the Darkness Falls Mod, for example, the clock is no longer visible on the HUD. To know what time it is, you can only look into a vending machine. But even there you could deactivate the time if you wanted to. Except for the background noise and the general light conditions you would have no clue how late it is.
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I was suggesting it as a vanilla option, not a mod. And not because I would enjoy it (personally, I would not). But I think it's a simple option to add and test that would create a more tense horror-esque game environment for those who want that.

 
You want to force the hordes on everyone, no matter if they wanna deal with them or not, because you don´t like the hordes right now?
What?

Just play how you want, and let others do the same...

i agree that the hordes aren´t as fun right now as they used to be, no reason to tell others how to play tough.
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Holy hell! Please stop! People who don't want them can turn them off, like I've said a thousand times. I'm not forcing anybody to do anything. Where are you getting this?

People are trying to say because they can be turned off, then it doesn't matter how crappy it is for people who want it on. That's all.

 
I was suggesting it as a vanilla option, not a mod. And not because I would enjoy it (personally, I would not). But I think it's a simple option to add and test that would create a more tense horror-esque game environment for those who want that.
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I doubt the option will come. Not because it would be hard to implement, but because madmole is not a friend of cluttering the menu with options. Many players would have to vote for such an option in order for it to be implemented.

Therefore, the best way for players who want to have this is to install a modlet. If the workshop comes sometime installing a modlet will be very easy but it is not difficult now either.

I quickly created a modlet that hides the clock. It only took me a few minutes to create the modlet since it only requires just a few lines of xpath to get rid of the clock.

If you want to take a look at it:

https://app.box.com/s/5ulrvawp523ea2rfmcnttursb6oa7zzb

 
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Immersion is one thing I'll never understand. I guess I'm just too rational to imagine that this game world actually exists. For all I care, we could have invisible pink unicorns in the game.
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I'm going to have to agree.

Never have I heard an online gaming community whine so hard, about something so silly as " Breaks the immersion ". It's just silly. Does not the Giant Compass on your forehead, or that constantly updating satellite map your have, does that not break your immersion? If you want better " immersion " you better mod those out.

 
I'm going to have to agree.Never have I heard an online gaming community whine so hard, about something so silly as " Breaks the immersion ". It's just silly. Does not the Giant Compass on your forehead, or that constantly updating satellite map your have, does that not break your immersion? If you want better " immersion " you better mod those out.
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Uhh hate becoming obnoxious yet again but this is... arg...

Each person's tolerance may vary, but the general rule is that the more consistency in the game's universe, the fewer UI, meta elements and anything else that is alien to the game world, the more immersion. It's that simple.

 
Many players would have to vote for such an option in order for it to be implemented.
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No.

You’ve not been paying attention if you think they develop like that...

If Joel decides its fun and worth it, it will go in regardless of what the majority of players want. I see posts all the time saying “Nobody asked for or wanted change A B or C and yet TFP did it”.

Yep. That sums it up.

TFP has no problem with crowd funding but they absolutely reject crowd developing. ;)

 
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I'm going to have to agree.Never have I heard an online gaming community whine so hard, about something so silly as " Breaks the immersion ". It's just silly. Does not the Giant Compass on your forehead, or that constantly updating satellite map your have, does that not break your immersion? If you want better " immersion " you better mod those out.
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I wouldn't call this whining. This is a pretty good discussion with some well-thought posts where people are presenting their opinions, criticisms of ideas and rebuttals. You don't get this in many gaming forums. What you do get in other forums are heated arguments, nonsensical or illogical commentary, and the only rebuttals are "stop whining." It doesn't belong here.

This is the General Discussion area. We are generally discussing. Those discussions could be either what we like or what we do not like. Most of the time, threads include a combination of these. There is no purpose of a forum where every post is game praising and nobody expresses ideas, feedback, dislikes, or calls out when someone tries to dismiss such as whining.

 
I wouldn't call this whining. This is a pretty good discussion with some well-thought posts where people are presenting their opinions, criticisms of ideas and rebuttals. You don't get this in many gaming forums. What you do get in other forums are heated arguments, nonsensical or illogical commentary, and the only rebuttals are "stop whining." It doesn't belong here.This is the General Discussion area. We are generally discussing. Those discussions could be either what we like or what we do not like. Most of the time, threads include a combination of these. There is no purpose of a forum where every post is game praising and nobody expresses ideas, feedback, dislikes, or calls out when someone tries to dismiss such as whining.
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No I get it.

everybody likes to play differently and that is OK

That is a great thing about 7DTD you can make it easy on yourself or ■■■■■■■ yourself. None of this predefined Rookie/normal/nightmare stuff.

And if people want to discuss optimizing their game playing experience in its immersive qualities. Thats good. Maybe somebody should make an immersion mod. No maps. No compass. No watch. HUD is just the belt. Who knows maybe there is one.

 
Its their game, let them avoid the horde if they choose to. Personally I find horde night nothing but a waste of resources as you rarely if ever get any loot worthwhile. You could argue its good exp but so is clearing poi's. Blood Moon horde night the zombies should drop loot more often and have special loot you can only get on a blood moon horde, maybe higher ammo drops and chance of ammo drop.

I mean does it hurt you that they wanna avoid the horde any? I'd say no it doesn't.

 
Its their game, let them avoid the horde if they choose to. Personally I find horde night nothing but a waste of resources as you rarely if ever get any loot worthwhile. You could argue its good exp but so is clearing poi's. Blood Moon horde night the zombies should drop loot more often and have special loot you can only get on a blood moon horde, maybe higher ammo drops and chance of ammo drop.
I mean does it hurt you that they wanna avoid the horde any? I'd say no it doesn't.
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Of course it doesn't. Which is why they can turn it off.

I want it on, and when I turn it on, I expect it to be something that impacts my survival and/or my base as it was designed to be. If I pretend that it can't be cheesed, and pretend that it is a valid tower defense mechanic, it just becomes a waste of resources like you said. Therefore, you want to just take the fight elsewhere so that you don't spend resources repairing and replacing your ammo.

The XP reward for killing them off is not a good reward. Sure, you get closer to getting perk points, but it skyrockets your gamestage, resulting in the next horde doing more damage and requiring more ammo. A never-ending cycle, that I would enjoy more if it was something that could not be avoided when I have it turned on because then it is seen as a necessary threat that you must face in order to survive. Avoiding it defeats the purpose of why I want it on and it defeats the purpose for which the system was created for.

To say this is forcing people to play a certain way is silly. If they want to avoid the horde, they already added the option to turn it off. Because some people want to turn it on, but still avoid it is not a good reason to stop improving the horde nights for the people who want to actually play that kind of game... you know, the one they envisioned when they made BM

 
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Ah yes, the endless cycle of "why do you want to change how I play?" -> "I don't, this change would be for me".

@Scyris, what is the difference between turning off bloodmoon and driving around through bloodmoon for you? Why do you need those 6 hours of driving around instead of just ticking an option (or on MP servers logging off for that time) ?

 
What’s funny is that when the same debate was happening about digging zombies the people against it said that if there was just an option to turn digging zombies on/off then that would end the debate for them.

Guess we can see that ain’t true at all. Even with an on/off switch they still want to fight against changes to things they will just turn off anyway...

 
What’s funny is that when the same debate was happening about digging zombies the people against it said that if there was just an option to turn digging zombies on/off then that would end the debate for them.
Guess we can see that ain’t true at all. Even with an on/off switch they still want to fight against changes to things they will just turn off anyway...
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I still think the best way out of it, if indeed the Pimps see it as a problem in need of a solution at all, is, rather than trying to make the Horde unavoidable (outside of turning it off), which will be nigh on impossible, is to incentivise participation in it - through a high quality drop potential from a "Horde boss zombie" of some sort (which really needn't even be a whole new zombie).

You are right when you point out that, with an in-game option to simply turn off the Horde, it should be more or less unavoidable if it is configured to spawn, but making it more or less unavoidable, could tie the Pimps in knots given all the outs the player has.

One would hope though, that if the whole "Digging zombies" debate is confronted with a similar in-game menu option for disabling it, then the debate ought to stop. I think (at least in part) this debate continues because some of the methods suggested for making the Horde unavoidable, would have secondary effects that might not be to everyone's liking.

 
I still think the best way out of it, if indeed the Pimps see it as a problem in need of a solution at all, is, rather than trying to make the Horde unavoidable (outside of turning it off), which will be nigh on impossible, is to incentivise participation in it - through a high quality drop potential from a "Horde boss zombie" of some sort (which really needn't even be a whole new zombie).
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Don't know mate... doesn't seem rational to me at all. First of all any sense of urgency will be about getting that loot/reward instead of actually being threatened to lose something. Players will actually look forward to "farming" it.

And I think it's safe to say that the horde is the most "threatening/dangerous" event in the game, so if that event rewards you ---> and the point of rewards is "survival" (what else could it be) ---> then all the most threatening event in the game will ultimately do is make it easier to survive.

 
I still think the best way out of it, if indeed the Pimps see it as a problem in need of a solution at all, is, rather than trying to make the Horde unavoidable (outside of turning it off), which will be nigh on impossible, is to incentivise participation in it - through a high quality drop potential from a "Horde boss zombie" of some sort (which really needn't even be a whole new zombie).
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A rational player will make this calculation:

Horde night costs: Horde base to build, upgrade and repair 1 day a week + 8 hours horde night with preparation, material 2000 concrete, 2000 iron (just blind guesses). Ammunition: 500 bullets 9mm equivalent (per person).

POI scavenge costs: 150 bullets 9mm equivalent (?)

Now the high quality drop at the end has to be that much more valuable to compete against the 2-3 high quality drops you get inside a typical POI with a fraction of the costs. Nothing less than a GUARANTEED legendary weapon would even come close. The problem is that having a fast and early path to legendary weapons would immediately devalue normal weapons of any quality.

 
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