PC A question on force fields.

[WarMongerian]

Here is what I will shoot for next game by Horde Night 1.

Really, except for pathing later on, this is all that I want/need for hoard nights.

To me 71x71 is huge. Just had my 12th horde and still perfectly happy with my combined workshop/melee service desk base, fitting easy in the standard 41x41. Only just starting to add turrets but still way too busy with exploring to have a lot of time building.
I would say: Don't punch above your weight. If you can't maintain the turrets needed to defend a base like that you probably don't need it.

I don't use any type of traps.  Or any type of guns, for that matter.  I just used my gathering tools, the best bow I can craft, and likewise best knife.  I'm currently just a few days past 5th horde night, and just crafter my level 5 machete.



This is how I am equipped, and the top row of my inventory, is typical of what I carry 24/7.

Game is just after midnight, day 38.

 

[Riamus]

If you have trouble seeing the zombies and you are on PC, there may be mods that will provide a colored outline around the zombies.  If not, I know there will be one to show the health bars.  Neither are things I'd want to use, but if you have trouble seeing, they would probably be a big help.

I'm not sure why you don't want to use guns since aiming won't be any different from the bow, but if you can manage the horde with just that and not any real weapons (besides the bow or machete) and just prefer those, there's nothing wrong with it.

It sounds like you have a valid path to your location (the ladders you mentioned extending all the way to the ground).  As long as you have that, your second example should be fine.  I don't know how well it will hold up for a 5th horde night unless you're on the lowest difficulty, but they should path to you just fine.

 

[WarMongerian]

If you have trouble seeing the zombies and you are on PC, there may be mods that will provide a colored outline around the zombies.  If not, I know there will be one to show the health bars.  Neither are things I'd want to use, but if you have trouble seeing, they would probably be a big help.

I'm not sure why you don't want to use guns since aiming won't be any different from the bow, but if you can manage the horde with just that and not any real weapons (besides the bow or machete) and just prefer those, there's nothing wrong with it.

It sounds like you have a valid path to your location (the ladders you mentioned extending all the way to the ground).  As long as you have that, your second example should be fine.  I don't know how well it will hold up for a 5th horde night unless you're on the lowest difficulty, but they should path to you just fine.

I pride myself on playing legit, no mods, but I do indeed play on the easiest settings, as the walking dead give me a run for my money, except for this current game, where I tried these dang "Force Fields" and they broke my hoard night.

Not everyone suffers the same things, but when I had my 1st stroke, my brain was damaged in such a way that my speech center was affected, my hand/eye coordination was affected, among other things.  I use a bow very rarely outside of hunting, other than picking off zombie dogs, and pincushioning the Dire Wolves to death, which takes quite a bit of effort, and many, many arrows when using a primitive bow.

So, it isn't that I *just* have vision problems, but my fine motor skills have not come all the way back (from the first stroke), let alone the two I suffered this year.  Ad in a bit or neuropathy and arthritis, and I can play, but not if I need to fumble about with reloading/switching ammo and/or weapons.

All that being said, I play on the easiest settings, but without guns and other 'cheese', I think I do alright, all things considered.  If anyone wanted to check out my videos', they could see for themselves how such a horde night plays out.  I don't expect to ever be able to play all the way through the games various PoI's, but if I can get to level 300 with no guns and no deaths, I figure that is something.

This whole force field thing is annoying, because, it broke up my 5th horde night pathing so very bad.  I normally wait till I die, before I restart, but I'll have to rethink my base, to restore the pathing to what it was before I started experimenting with the 'force fields'. and I don't know that starting a new game is a good idea at this point.

I should probably just attempt a do-or-die mindset, and just play to level 300, just so I can say I did it. 

I may not be able to play all the way to 300th level, without dieing, 

 

[Riamus]

I wouldn't call a mod that makes zombies easier to see, which is basically just an accessibility option, not legit.  For that matter, there are many mods that I would consider "legit" and not cheating.  But that is up to you, of course. 

 

[WarMongerian]

I would love it, if TFP could work out a way of offering options, where players could choose to limit the in-game choices, basically making it a game where you can never find guns, books about guns, or parts, or ammo.  I watched a friend play to level 300, and he only cheated twice, for 120,000 dukes, each time he cheated, so that by day 17, he basically had everything he needed/wanted, before 3rd horde night.  He is still playing that game to this day, but he doesn't play dead is dead, and while watching him do a hard PoI, he opened up a big loot box.....and it was mostly just ammo.

For me, that wouldn't even be considered loot, let alone valuable loot, but rather just junk/salvage, so options where we could set up a game where guns don't exist, would be a great challenge for folks that rely on just being able to one shot a Dire Wolf, by buying a bigger gun w/mods, lol.

Still, I think I am just going to have to make a small scale base, and just strictly do horde nights there, and make all my farming base(s) separate.  I think that I might just give the whole "Force Fields" one last chance to be useful,and this is my current thought:



So, just as a way to test if they can be made to be useful, I'll just make it like in the picture above, and if that works, future experimentation with FF is green lit, and R&D can continue, but if the FF fail even on such a tiny scale, not wasting any further time on the concept.

Best thing about this way, I don't even have to re-model the current base, just build what you see in the image above,and if it works, I just continue play to death or level 300, whichever comes first.  

Probably sell the idea as

1)  Dead is dead.

2)  No MODS.

3)  No Guns.

and see if anyone is up for trying 7 days to die, without cheese = Guns!!! 

I'm guessing that hardly anyone will give it a go, and that only truly dedicated players can make it to level 300.

 

[Dead Smarty]

Probably sell the idea as

1)  Dead is dead.

2)  No MODS.

3)  No Guns.

and see if anyone is up for trying 7 days to die, without cheese = Guns!!! 

I'm guessing that hardly anyone will give it a go, and that only truly dedicated players can make it to level 300.

Sounds pretty much how I like to play. Sofar I did cheat myself a little on dead=dead, on 2 occasions I jumped into a situation I knew it would absolutely kill me but it seemed just too funny to let go instead of jumping on my bike and going the other way. And the guns... Only one I allow myself to use is a looted one for horde nights although by now I know my bow is just as good. This results in a steel crate full of ammo just taking up space in my base.

 

[WarMongerian]

Sounds pretty much how I like to play. Sofar I did cheat myself a little on dead=dead, on 2 occasions I jumped into a situation I knew it would absolutely kill me but it seemed just too funny to let go instead of jumping on my bike and going the other way. And the guns... Only one I allow myself to use is a looted one for horde nights although by now I know my bow is just as good. This results in a steel crate full of ammo just taking up space in my base.

In truth, I also did some things I ought not to have done.

1)  I exploited a single PoI ruthlessly, over and over and over again. 

2)  Knowing this map, I made a mad dash for Carl's corn, and once I had some crops growing, started selling my surplus by like day 6-7, ro get more books, and a better bow.

3)  I also turned off enemy spawns, more than once, when trying to build the big force fields.

4)  I even forgot to turn that back on when I left my base, and more than once had to log off out in the field, thun enemy spawn back on, and then rejoin the game.

Right now, I'm building a 'proof-of-concept' base, in my current game, and am about to combine my research on "Force Fields" and "Underground Greenhouses" into a single, tiny little base.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I would love it, if TFP could work out a way of offering options, where players could choose to limit the in-game choices, basically making it a game where you can never find guns, books about guns, or parts, or ammo.  I watched a friend play to level 300, and he only cheated twice, for 120,000 dukes, each time he cheated, so that by day 17, he basically had everything he needed/wanted, before 3rd horde night.  He is still playing that game to this day, but he doesn't play dead is dead, and while watching him do a hard PoI, he opened up a big loot box.....and it was mostly just ammo.

For me, that wouldn't even be considered loot, let alone valuable loot, but rather just junk/salvage, so options where we could set up a game where guns don't exist, would be a great challenge for folks that rely on just being able to one shot a Dire Wolf, by buying a bigger gun w/mods, lol.

Still, I think I am just going to have to make a small scale base, and just strictly do horde nights there, and make all my farming base(s) separate.  I think that I might just give the whole "Force Fields" one last chance to be useful,and this is my current thought:

View attachment 33236

So, just as a way to test if they can be made to be useful, I'll just make it like in the picture above, and if that works, future experimentation with FF is green lit, and R&D can continue, but if the FF fail even on such a tiny scale, not wasting any further time on the concept.

Best thing about this way, I don't even have to re-model the current base, just build what you see in the image above,and if it works, I just continue play to death or level 300, whichever comes first.  

Probably sell the idea as

1)  Dead is dead.

2)  No MODS.

3)  No Guns.

and see if anyone is up for trying 7 days to die, without cheese = Guns!!! 

I'm guessing that hardly anyone will give it a go, and that only truly dedicated players can make it to level 300.

Been there done that. That´s how many people play. Probably with guns on horde night though,  But you said no cheese, so no force field blocks either.  

 

[Dead Smarty]

2)  Knowing this map, I made a mad dash for Carl's corn, and once I had some crops growing, started selling my surplus by like day 6-7, ro get more books, and a better bow.

It's an easy red bag spot too: Dig in to the cage, even with a primitive bow you can kill the pig before it breaks trough the barrier, first easy red bag is a fact

The farm across that road is the first place I survived a horde night, at the attic behind a few building blocks. Then decided to make it cobblestone, next horde night they came trough the roof right on top of me

 

[WarMongerian]

Ok, been feeling down and out lately, but my doctor got me back on track.  I weighed in (at the doctors office) at 207.5 lbs on friday, jan 17th.  I am now, according to my home scale, down to under 187.5, so 20 lbs lost in 8 days, lol.

I have been experimenting with smaller scale force fields, on a new horde night base, and am going to post a few images/video's of that base, along with observations on what works and what doesn't.  

 

[WarMongerian]

Just about to do next Horde Night, learned that I can make nights 12 hours long, if I want.  I'll pass, for right now, on making horde night last twice as long as I'm used to, but in the future, who knows?  My current game is just about to start it's next horde night, and each building in the new base has it's own force field.  The zombies glitch when you knock them down, but don't kill them outright, they fall into the force field blocks.  If you build multiple blocks deep, then that can be an annoying problem, and since the zombies seem to be avoiding/pathing around the 1 block deep force fields I am using, why do more work than needed?

I have paved the central region of my new base, so I can see the enemies as they approach.  I learned to let them come from all directions, and just try to force them to use one of 4 ways into the inner base/land claim.  Future plans may see making the zombies doing a bit more walking around, but paving the outer land claim all the way out to the trees is going to happen soon, and will hopefully allow me to start tracking zombies further out, and seeing how they behave on their approach march.

Going in and seeing what I can see...

 

[WarMongerian]

Some images from Horde Night..



View from main base, just before the zombies come calling...



The first couple are on their way...



It's about to get real, lol.

 

[WarMongerian]

So, some final questions about the "Force Fields".

Here are a pair of shots of the layout of my current Horde Night base, with non-path breaking FF, forcing the zombies to have to enter the inner base, by coming through one of 4 entrenches, each with a torch tower providing me a bit of back lighting...



This view, gives a look at a part of the base, where the FF funnel the zombies into a 3 block wide gap.  All the blocks are cobblestone, with the FF being painted "TV" black so they are easy (even for me) to be able to see.



Same area of the base, but pic taken from the elevated walkway above land claim block.

The long black line in the center, is the portion of the building on the right hand sides FF, which extend around the back of each building.  The black line to the left of the torch tower, is the far end of the building on the left hand side.  This base has 4 buildings, and their FF intersect as shown.  the base is symmetrical, so each of the four entrenches look the same.

While I was transfering materials, I had the opportunity to test out the FF in action, so...



I was not set up for this, so I had to back away, and start the video recording software, so some zombies can be see on the ground already..  In the foreground, is one of the FF, with a nice close up look at the blocks that I used.  Because of the issue with zombies getting knocked-down-but-not-out, and landing on a FF, they can, and often do, fall down into the deeper blocks of the FF barriers.  

My first experiment with these FF, I went ahead and ringed my whole base, and left just one entrance, which was way to long for the zombies to path, and just broke that base.  This new base, with multiple, much smaller FF, seems to be working properly.  My new FF are just one block dug into the ground, so the issue with the zombies falling into the blocks, ends with them just being waist high, and they can just jump back out on their own.  I'll provide the gridview/base plan later on, so folks can see the total layout.



We can see the traffic control effect of the FF in the above image.  I had been to the right of the FF, then ran back across it, forcing the zombies to turn around and come back around the far end, thus giving me time to get set, and line them all up.

The central torch tower in seen in the middle, providing me with the much needed lightning, and three of the FF can be seen in the image above, each FF ends 3 blocks away from the 3 X 3 torch tower, so crowd control is not a problem

The zombie that is about to get up close and personal with me, reminds me of a school bully, whom I have nicknamed "Curt-the-Mighty", my he rest in peace.  off to the right, we see two zombies of the type I have nicknamed "Jerry's Kids", and another zombie that died wearing a hoodie, so I call them, "Zombies-in-the-Hood", and off to the left, I call the businessman types "Mr-Anderson" (and of course, I'm wearing the 'Enforcer' set, so...), and right next to him, I see the big fat hefty gal that reminds me of the lady in dawn of the dead, that, died without a name.

I have not yet decided if I want to post the video these images are from, heck, I haven't even watched the whole thing myself, yet, but what do folks think of the little base in the pics?

 

[WarMongerian]

So, here is the expandable, zoomable grid image of my base layout.  Starting in the center, we have the land claim block in dark brown, set within one of the torch towers (3X3 base, with three torches backlighting the zombies as they enter the base).

Next, in Orange, we see the 1 block deep, three block wide Force Fields, which encircle each of this bases 4 building with a 3 block wide gap.

Each building is 5 blocks high of solid cobblestone foundation, and then built up from there as needed.

In Pink, is the birdcage/archer platform, and here is an in-game look at such from the front:



One of the bases 4 buildings, with a nice view of it's FF ends sticking out on either side, and the building behind me has a part of it's FF right in front of me.  Running up to the base of the causeway, in green on the gridview, but painted black in-game, we see this...

The ladder takes up through the iron hatch, and into the archer platform/birdcage.  On the gridview, the birdcage is pink, but in game looks like this...

Depending on the progress of a Horde Night, I may take up station by the hatch, and kill off some climbers if there are not to many, and closing the hatch is great to keep others out, while you finish off any zombies that are being stubborn about the whole "Rest in Peace"  thing.  In the gridview, the hatch is shown in red.  For my last several games, the first Horde Night always goes heavy on the dogs, with as many a 5 Direwolves also attending the party.  Killing the dogs doesn't require using a bow from up top, but the Direwolves take many an arrow, and killing them from the relative safety of the birdcage takes some time, but is always better then going after them with a melee weapon on day 7.

If/when, the zombies take the top of the ladder, I just jump out of the birdcage, run across the FF to the next base, climb up that ladder, and rinse and repeat.  I also like to take the fight to the zombies on the ground, but when they bust out the birds/dogs/direwolves, I climb back into the birdcage.

And here we see the 'Jump' perspective, just before heading off to the next building in the base.  I prefer a counter clockwise exit-to-next-building in the base, as I get to cross a FF on the way, and the zombies have to go between the central torch tower and the end of the FF, rather than straight across, which give me a second to climb up that next ladder, and close the hatch, with time to grab a drink, use a bandage, or make a quick repair.

Now...

I have learned that the zombies have a short pathing ability, and if the FF are too long, they just break and do all sorts of random.  If the FF are short, meaning the path the zombies have to take is not to long, then they seem to be following the traffic control offered by the FF.

In the provided gridview, there are 4 ways into the inner base, and after a Horde Night or two, I extended the FF, shown in light green, and built the 4 additional torch towers, at all four points of the compass, where the zombies will be entering the inner base.

With the experiment progressing, It does seem like the FF are a good, and viable, investment of playing time, but because of the deeper FF having the annoying problem of digging zombies falling down into them, I am just planning to make the FF just the one block deep.

Does anyone have information that they would like to share, about how long the pathing is that they personally know works?  Do the FF need to be three blocks wide?

On the issue of FF being cheese, let us look at my current base.  All my FF do is force the zombies to enter the inner base from one of four points, rather than all 360 points of the compass, and as this isn't a huge deal, would most folks think that this was cheese?

 

[theFlu]

I am just planning to make the FF just the one block deep.

That might not work. The zeds can't see the force field blocks as path, but they they do see the bottom of your pit as viable; as they don't see the FF block, they think they can just walk the bottom. If the edges of your pit are breakable (cobble in your case), they might see breaking one block there as the easier option.

how long the pathing is that they personally know works?

JaWoodle tested pathing distance at some point to be ~40 blocks back-and-forth, which seems to mean just "any path" within 40 blocks from the target player.

Somewhere around here with a time stamp:
 


Spoiler

No, one block wide generally works; but something like a fast zombie turning a tight corner next to it may end up randomly running across it. Not a big deal usually.

 

[WarMongerian]

From actual play experience, the leaping guys can cross, but most other forms, 2 or 4 legged, are being observed being controlled by the FF, so I'm not sure what is going on, but they are walking around them right now.

Not sure, but I'll make a video from Horde Night 10/day 70 this evening, but nap and food come first, lol.

 

[theFlu]

From actual play experience, the leaping guys can cross,

Even they should only cross if they can leap to you (into melee range), they won't leap across it just to continue running. Same with any gap and any zed, the frogs just have a longer jump.