A lot of the in game percentages are wrong

[TheGrumpyOldGuy]

Hi, I'm a current steam player and I was testing the skills and armor bonuses to see if they worked properly after some friends and I discovered some strange behavior of the mining gloves and we have figured out that many of the weapon skills and damage bonuses from armor are not accurate.

Testing so far just the +60% damage from the preacher gloves. This is on a fresh character with no magazines read and no skill points used and targeting base zombies with no armor.

with a magnum that does listed 77.5 damage I am consistently doing 77 damage to enemy zombies (debug mode I can see the hp and turn off their AI).

I put the gloves on and now I am consistently hitting for 116. 60% bonus should be 123, so the real bonus is closer to 50% with no other modifiers.

Level up to 300, put 5/5 points into handguns, now I have (supposedly) a 50% bonus to magnum damage. Notable my listed damage with the gun is still 77.5 so it appears that number is your base damage explicitly.

Now a 50% increase of 77.5 I should be doing 116.25 damage per shot.

How much do I do? Consistently 110, which is about 42%, not 50%.

Okay so the skill bonuses are off.

How does armor factor into this?

Well with the armor and the 5/5 skill my total percentage bonus is 110%. So if it's additive I should be hitting for 162.75 and if it's multiplicative it should be even higher.

So how much do I actually do? 149, repeatedly 149 damage.

And we can see from the numbers that 110 damage with the perks and no gloves, when we put the gloves on if it's actually 60% we should be hitting for 176, and we're only hitting for 149. That's about a 35% bonus, not 60%.

In short, the preacher gloves give less of a bonus than they say they do and the more bonuses you have to something the lower their percentage bonus becomes.

The really strange part is that with no skills the gloves added 39 damage.
With the gun skills, once I put the gloves on they still add the exact same 39 damage, so it looks like they don't scale with skill damage bonuses at all.

That's odd. So we tested the nerd helmet and learning elixir.

Nerd helmet gives exactly 20% more xp. Base zombie kill is 400, helmet its 480.
Learning elixir gives exactly 20% by itself, 400 to 480 as expected.

How much do the two together give you? 560. Exactly 40% more xp. So the XP bonuses at least are additive and work exactly as they say. So clearly some bonuses are accurate and additive.

Now mining gloves.

Base steel pickaxe with no bonuses and no skill points. Says it does 148.3 block damage.
Does exactly 148 block damage when used on an iron vein.

Now with the gloves (which should be +50% or in this case 222 damage) we hit the block and do... 190? That's 29%, almost half of the listed 50% bonus. And we haven't done anything to the base block damage so this percentage is flat out a lie even at the very basic level and it's notably different from the preacher gloves which at least got close at baseline to their listed bonus.

Lets try with some bonuses added on. 5/5 miner 69er should give me 150% damage baseline. So with 148 as my starting number I should see 370 damage if that number is accurate. This is just 5/5 miner with no gloves. How much do I do?

275? That's an 86% bonus roughly, it's way off even the baseline is way off. It's a full 60% less damage than it should be.

So how does it work with the gloves? Gloves and 5/5 miner I hit for 318. These bonuses together should add up to +200% extra damage, meaning I should be doing 444 and I'm doing 25% less than that for some reason. Even the base damage of 275 with no gloves putting the gloves on only added 43 block damage, which is about a 16% increase, nowhere near 50%.

So yeah, block damage bonuses are all over the place.

So finding that we decided to test out the mining helmet and see if that and motherload were working.

Baseline with nothing I get 105 iron for breaking one iron ore block.
Slap on the helmet and I get 136. Exactly a 30% bonus. Works just as it should.

Lets see what mother load does to it. 5/5 should give me a 100% bonus, so I should get 210 iron. I test it and get exactly 210. Great mother load does exactly what it says it does.

So how about both? Well total bonus is +130% so I should get 241. I test it and I get exactly 241.

So the mining gloves don't do what they say nor do they stack with the bonuses from miner 69er correctly, but the mining helmet DOES and it DOES stack EXACTLY as it should with the bonuses from mother load additively.

So can someone help me figure this out? Is there some calculation that I'm missing here because it looks like most of the weapon skills consistently give 10% less bonus than they say they do and the armor that gives 60% bonuses consistently gives less than it says it does.

And then you have mining block damage which is just all over the place and the gloves and the perks do way less than they say they do.

 

[meganoth]

Difficulty setting? What quality of magnum? Type of bullet? You forgot to mention quite a few important values.

The damage value you see displayed on the weapon is not the base damage. Easily confirmed because if you install a mod you see that value rise. So your percentage added by perk may not be shown, but the percentage added by mods is.

One thing is that weapons have a random manufacturing damage range of plus/minus 20%, but that random damage is NOT done to the base_damage but adds a percentage just like the gloves.

.44 bullets have a base damage of 70, a magnum reduces that base damage to 65. Everything else seems to be percentages added, but it is easily possible I am missing something as there are multiple locations in the xml involved and I didn't check progression.xml for example. Though I think that any progression bonusses should be 0 with a lvl1 character without perks points. But I also didn't check difficulty settings and I don't remember how that influences the damage.

All percentages added are only added, not multiplied, like you did find out with the potion. This includes ALL percentage damage, from perks, armor, weapon or tool manufacturing bonus, quality, potions, headshot, ...

Relevant xml in items.xml:

<effect_group name="gunHandgunT2Magnum44">
  ...
  <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="base_add" value="-5" tags="perkGunslinger"/> <!-- damage offset -->
  <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" value="-.02,.02" tags="perkGunslinger"/> <!-- random EntityDmg -->
  <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="perc_add" value=".05,.25" tier="2,6" tags="perkGunslinger"/> <!-- tier bonus -->

  
  <item name="ammo44MagnumBulletBall">
   ... 
  <passive_effect name="EntityDamage" operation="base_set" value="70" tags="perkGunslinger,revolver"/>

 

[TheGrumpyOldGuy]

Nomad difficulty, Normal bullets, I believe it is a tier 5 normal magnum not the vulture.

This is a base magnum without any attachments.

Nomad I am fairly certain is 100% damage dealt and damage taken.

 

[meganoth]

Nomad difficulty, Normal bullets, I believe it is a tier 5 normal magnum not the vulture.

This is a base magnum without any attachments.

Okay, so you have +20% from tier quality of your weapon and +/- 20% for the individual weapon on top and that is the value shown I believe. The damage value of 77.5 is 19.23% above 65 so you have a very slightly below average magnum. Now do the calculations again with adding 19.23% to all other damage percentages and multiply that total with 65 and you should get the values you see (hopefully)

 

[TheGrumpyOldGuy]

I'm confused, if it's 19.23% above 65 how is it below average if it can have a +/- 20% range?

Trying to understand the exact calculations for damage here.

 

[meganoth]

I'm confused, if it's 19.23% above 65 how is it below average if it can have a +/- 20% range?

Trying to understand the exact calculations for damage here.

You have +20% from weapon quality (each quality step above 1 adds 5%). Since you actually have 19.23% your random bonus must be -0.77%

EDIT: Changed "tier" to "quality"

 

[TheGrumpyOldGuy]

You have +20% from weapon tier. Since you actually have 19.23% your random bonus must be -0.77%

Ah, okay I see what you mean now its not +/- 20% it's between 40% and 0% with the average being 20%.

So just to make sure I'm following you on this you're saying the weapons have a 19.23% damage modifier that is being added on top of it's base damage and that the base damage is what's multiplied by the items/skills not any additional modifiers?

So in the case of this magnum the actual base damage is 62.5 and change not 77.5

But if that was the case I should be doing 93 damage not 110.

Where does 65 factor into this?

And does this mean the random bonus +/- can actually negate the quality bonus entirely?

 

[meganoth]

Ah, okay I see what you mean now its not +/- 20% it's between 40% and 0% with the average being 20%.

Yes. For quality 5 weapons.

So just to make sure I'm following you on this you're saying the weapons have a 19.23% damage modifier that is being added on top of it's base damage and that the base damage is what's multiplied by the items/skills not any additional modifiers?

Yes. All percentages are calculated from base damage.

So in the case of this magnum the actual base damage is 62.5 and change not 77.5

Huh? The actual base damage is 65, not 62.5. Quality bonus and random bonus are percentages, they don't change base damage

But if that was the case I should be doing 93 damage not 110.

Where does 65 factor into this?

Show me your calculations or what you want to calculate. I don't know what the 93 or 110 are for.

 

[TheGrumpyOldGuy]

Is the base damage coming from the bullet damage? Is that where 65 is coming from?

So the magnum showing 77.5 is just applying it's own bonus to the 65 base from the bullets yeah?

Assuming that's how it works the 110 now checks out.

What about the block damage calculations?

 

[meganoth]

And does this mean the random bonus +/- can actually negate the quality bonus entirely?

Yes. But there are multiple values that are boosted by quality and random, and all random values have a gaussian bell-curve, so they are more likely to be low values than max values. So almost all weapons of higher qualities should be better than weapons of lower qualities. Naturally damage IS the most important stat, you might get a dud.

Is the base damage coming from the bullet damage? Is that where 65 is coming from?

So the magnum showing 77.5 is just applying it's own bonus to the 65 base from the bullets yeah?

Assuming that's how it works the 110 now checks out.

What about the block damage calculations?

Reread my first post, there I calculated the base damage by taking the base damage of the bullet and added the -5 *base damage* modifier of the magnum. This is actually the only value that I could find that changes base damage.

What about the block damage calculations?

Do them again. If they still don't check out, post your calculations and I take a look

 

[meganoth]

PS: Base damage of Steel Pickaxe is 85, no ammo involved

quality bonus and random bonus are different with pickaxes, they are 15% per quality tier and +/- 4%, but again, those are percentages, no matter what steel pickaxe you have the base damage will always be 85