PC A feature we can all get behind... Choice

[crazyduck]

Options are nice. But, I think the core game should be balanced before we get 'pages and pages' of options. It would be less efficient if everyone was manipulating tons of options and then discussing their gameplay and devs trying to balance the game based on the widely varied play experiences.
It's also not as simple as just mapping the XML values to the GUI. There are going to be bugs associated with the actual options you pass through that you cannot anticipate. So they will need to be tested. And, each time you make changes to the game- they are going to have to be all tested again. It will cause delays.

Just as an example, the new speed settings cause occasional animation glitches. If you set the zombies to 'run' - they glitch out occasionally and warp around after playing their pain animation but before continuing the run animation. That's an option they put in the game born from an existing variable just as if they had provided it for you to change manually in the game's GUI. Even when they actually did it themselves - it's STILL got bugs..Imagine the bugs if they just linked the XML to an options page in the GUI and let you go hog-wild changing things.

Yes you are right its not that easy and also it would need testing.

But they coudl stop removing more and more Stuff from the game to force people to play with new skill system to force people to use the dumbed down crafting and such stuff. They could simply keep the old Code and Functions and let the User or Modder decide if he want to use the new Skill system or the old System, if he want to use the new Crafting or the old Crafting (i dont talk about the crafting grid ) .

Also there wold be no need for the Pimps to support people who play with Mods if there is a Bug or Issue which is not a regular Game Bug.

And really i dont need 10 Pages of Options would be fine if they are in the UI would make things easier , but i hate that i cannot as example bring back weapon crafting with parts quality cause the Game does not allow it anymore also not after i bring back weapon Parts. and i dont think it would need months of testing to not remove the function to use crafting by part quality . How the modder add this to his mod is nothing the pimps must test or bugfix as long as the pimps dont remove the needed Gamecode.

 

[Exxodous]

You are totally entitled to that opinion, it's how that opinion was disseminated that I found issue with. Just look at what you wrote; "complete waste". That's highly insulting. You can say you don't like the changes, but who are you to decide whether someone's contribution to a computer game is a waste or not? Especially as you have absolutely no visibility of what was done and for what reason.
It's this sort of knee jerk reaction from people who have done nothing more than pay £20 (or $ or € or whatever) who somehow seem to think that gives them carte blanche to ridicule the time spent developing a game that a lot of people actually like and find the *autistic_screeching* is way over the top.

Criticism, sure, but it must be constructive. I wrote a post about this before but salty children whined and gave me negative rep which just shows that there is a minority of people in the community who don't care about the game so long as it fits their exact template. Any deviation from that template is somehow akin to the world ending.

Let's just look at the other points you made.

"AI is terrible". No mention that they are a significant improvement since A16. I would also suggest that you have never written any AI routines. It's actually very hard for all sorts of reasons, and that before you then need to rip most of it out in order to support the number of AI.

"Skill system is horrible". Said it before, it's not changing in A17 (it might be in A18, who knows) so to continue complaining about this is pointless. It is the one point I have sympathy with, but again it's the explicit disregard for any positive.

"Vehicles and why so many". Go back, read up on the A16 comments, you'll see there was a lot of positivity regarding new vehicles in A17. There was lots of positive feedback on the YT videos showing the bike, the jeep or the motorcycle. Why have so many? Hell why have so many guns, why have so many different things to eat. At this point it seems you are complaining that TFP have added stuff to the game.

"Temp buffs are worthless". If you fail to use them as an advantage then that's your issue, not the game's. They are certainly not OP and provide a short term benefit. For example, about to loot Shotgun Messiah, why not use a looting buff. About to take on a PoI with ferals, why not use a melee buff.

As for the new PoI's being "the single worst addition in 7 days history" that actually had me laughing out loud. You are in such a tiny minority with that it's not even worth discussing.

+1 This ^^

 

[Doctor3D]

Yes you are right its not that easy and also it would need testing.But they coudl stop removing more and more Stuff from the game to force people to play with new skill system to force people to use the dumbed down crafting and such stuff. They could simply keep the old Code and Functions and let the User or Modder decide if he want to use the new Skill system or the old System, if he want to use the new Crafting or the old Crafting (i dont talk about the crafting grid ) .

Also there wold be no need for the Pimps to support people who play with Mods if there is a Bug or Issue which is not a regular Game Bug.

And really i dont need 10 Pages of Options would be fine if they are in the UI would make things easier , but i hate that i cannot as example bring back weapon crafting with parts quality cause the Game does not allow it anymore also not after i bring back weapon Parts. and i dont think it would need months of testing to not remove the function to use crafting by part quality . How the modder add this to his mod is nothing the pimps must test or bugfix as long as the pimps dont remove the needed Gamecode.

I feel the pain of things that we 'lost' in previous Alphas that are never coming back and can't bring back without DLL modding. I know it. But, that's part of early access and alpha games. There is going to be a lot of just trying things out - adding in mechanics and content throwing it out there and seeing what works and what doesn't. A lot of times - it will grip you and you will like it - but the devs don't so they try something else. It sucks but that's how it is.

I can also think of many things I loved that they took away. A lot of them I was in the minority in. I liked the forge molds for example. I think most hated them. I liked that each animal had different meat instead of just "Raw Meat" - I liked the more complex crafting that had multiple steps (#stickgate) - i liked the infinite random worlds we used to have -- they have changed lots and removed lots - BUT - they have also added lots.

Part of alpha games is sometimes getting attached to a feature a dev just tries out and decides it doesn't fit their vision. You might of loved it - but it's their baby - not ours.

 

[WolfyBlah]

I'll grant you some people hate the new system, but you have to admit "quite a few" love it. So what makes your opinion more important than mine for instance? The only vote that counts is copies sold and number of people playing. If those continue to go up as it seems they are, looks like the haters are SOL, and no amount of insulting is going to change that.
The solution to your problem is really simple. For example I do not like Fortnite so....wait for it...... I don't play it. I don't spend hour upon hour telling them how much their game sucks. I play games that I enjoy instead. See how easy that is?

What part of "experimental" and "Alpha" do you not understand??

Not this ♥♥♥♥ again. I have a full in depth understanding of development methodologies. THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU DO IN ALPHA PHASES OF DEVELOPMENT. alpha is the phase where core features are added... all this time spent balancing (this is what beta phase of developement is for) is just more time that should be going to actually bringing all the features online and working.

This is the reason we have been in alpha for 5 years.

So can we stop using the 'alpha/experimental' defense now? Its not a valid defense when TFP are following no actual development plan beyond what they think of the alpha before.

 

[Exxodous]

Not this ♥♥♥♥ again. I have a full in depth understanding of development methodologies. THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU DO IN ALPHA PHASES OF DEVELOPMENT. alpha is the phase where core features are added... all this time spent balancing (this is what beta phase of developement is for) is just more time that should be going to actually bringing all the features online and working.
This is the reason we have been in alpha for 5 years.

So can we stop using the 'alpha/experimental' defense now? Its not a valid defense when TFP are following no actual development plan beyond what they think of the alpha before.

Apparently it is what they think 'alpha/experimental' should be and no amount of cursing or yelling at me will change it lol.

I'll reiterate - The solution to your problem is really simple. Don't like it? Don't play it. See how easy that is?

Oh, and relax, breathe, have a snickers bar or something. Life is to short to spend so much negative energy on a "game"

 

[Skeeter63082]

I stated exactly what testing would be needed: checking that variables are updated. Thats ALL the testing needed with more options, making surr they do as advertised.
And yeah its my opinon that a17 has been a complete waste, nothing added has made the game more fun for me, infact just the opposite everything has made the game less fun.

- new AI is horrible

- new skill system is horrible

- vehicles: why did we need more of these? They all do the exact same thing (which is mostly just justify giving the player terrible move speed and stamina)

-temporary buffs are worthless (not in a balance sense, in a 'they add nothing to the game senae')

-new POIs are probably the single worst addition in 7days history (which is pretty impressive consisering the long list of 'screw your playstyle' choices the developers have made)

Am i missing any other 'features' of a17?

My turn! Let's just start from the beginning.

- new AI is horrible - No it's not. Zeds now actually calculate the most efficient route to find you, bypassing doors, traps, etc and targetting weaker areas over where you might have designed for them to go. Learn to base build with this in mind. If you can't outsmart them, it's not the dev's fault. They added challenge. Rise to it or go play another game.

- new skill system is horrible - This is debateable. It's a bit constricting at first, and really only at first, but it's far more organized and easy to manage than the old system. You don't have to sit there for 10 minutes scratching your head trying to decide which of the nearly hundred places you should put a few skill points. Chances are when you get that next level, you know right where it's going and chances also are that it's going to give you a really nice benefit. Either learn to work with the new system or go play another game.

- vehicles: why did we need more of these? They all do the exact same thing (which is mostly just justify giving the player terrible move speed and stamina) - Variety is the spice of life. I personally love the motorcycle for quick runs and general transportation and also love the 4X4 for multiplayer and long looting runs. Also, the gyrocopter is fun for scouting from above to find traders, specific POIs, new towns, etc. Even the bicycle has a great place giving you a reasonable conveyance early on which beats the hell out of running everywhere. If you don't like the new variety, go play another game.

-temporary buffs are worthless (not in a balance sense, in a 'they add nothing to the game senae') - Hey, they're there. You don't have to use them. I've found a few I like to keep in stock for certain things, but worst case scenario, they make pretty damn decent trader fodder, and considering there are so many different ones, you can likely offload a whole crapload on a single trader for a nice profit. If the temp buffs are bothering you, then go play another game.

-new POIs are probably the single worst addition in 7days history (which is pretty impressive consisering the long list of 'screw your playstyle' choices the developers have made) - I had to stop for a second and decide whether you were trolling or not. the new dungeon POIs are AMAZING. Find the path through, circumvent and avoid traps and pitfalls, kill zombies around every corner, loot like crazy to the top, and once you reach the end, get a very lucrative reward in the form of guns, ammo, healing supplies, building materials, good food, etc etc etc. I think you might just be hating on TFP. If it gets you that upset, then go play another game.


Am i missing any other 'features' of a17? - Apparently you pretty much missed them all. That's fine. A17 just isn't for you. We're not going to miss you, so feel free to go play another game.

 

[Skeeter63082]

Not this ♥♥♥♥ again. I have a full in depth understanding of development methodologies. THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU DO IN ALPHA PHASES OF DEVELOPMENT. alpha is the phase where core features are added... all this time spent balancing (this is what beta phase of developement is for) is just more time that should be going to actually bringing all the features online and working.
This is the reason we have been in alpha for 5 years.

So can we stop using the 'alpha/experimental' defense now? Its not a valid defense when TFP are following no actual development plan beyond what they think of the alpha before.

Maybe your game company does things differently (I'm assuming you must own or work for a game company to come off as such an authority how how things ARE and ARE NOT done in this industry) and that's fine. TFP are doing things their way, and get this, their fan base is still playing and having fun. How about that? Sure, there are complaints and suggestions, but at least TFP seems to have somewhat of a sense of where we want the game to go as a fan base. Just because a few outliers want to complain doesn't mean they have to change their way of doing things.

 

[WolfyBlah]

Apparently it is what they think 'alpha/experimental' should be and no amount of cursing or yelling at me will change it lol.
I'll reiterate - The solution to your problem is really simple. Don't like it? Don't play it. See how easy that is?

Oh, and relax, breathe, have a snickers bar or something. Life is to short to spend so much negative energy on a "game"

Telling me to not play the game helps litteraly nobody. Its Like going 'that green coat you bought last christmas... well i cut it up and dyed it into a pink tan top, just dont wear it if you dont like it'.

And as far as negative energy... whatever, you see negative energy and insults and i see feedback and somone who has been with the game for years and followed development closely and is unhappy with the removal of options and the dumbing down of the game for consoles.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Its Like going 'that green coat you bought last christmas... well i cut it up and dyed it into a pink tan top, just dont wear it if you dont like it'..

Not even close. In this case you got a pink coat IN ADDITION to your green coat. So if u dont like pink feel free to keep wearing your green A16.4 coat. Use either, both, or none of them, its up to you

 

[WolfyBlah]

Maybe your game company does things differently (I'm assuming you must own or work for a game company to come off as such an authority how how things ARE and ARE NOT done in this industry) and that's fine. TFP are doing things their way, and get this, their fan base is still playing and having fun. How about that? Sure, there are complaints and suggestions, but at least TFP seems to have somewhat of a sense of where we want the game to go as a fan base. Just because a few outliers want to complain doesn't mean they have to change their way of doing things.

The thing is unlike some people im not asking for things to be changed to suit my wishes, im asking for more options so the game is a better product that serves more players. More options benifits all of us.

As far as the fanbase still playing amd having fun... ehh, as with any other game development some people will fanboy like crazy and defend even the most stupid decsions, wouldnt be suprised if TFP removed all zombies from the game there would still be those people defending them.

 

[Skeeter63082]

The thing is unlike some people im not asking for things to be changed to suit my wishes, im asking for more options so the game is a better product that serves more players. More options benifits all of us.
As far as the fanbase still playing amd having fun... ehh, as with any other game development some people will fanboy like crazy and defend even the most stupid decsions, wouldnt be suprised if TFP removed all zombies from the game there would still be those people defending them.

You're missing the point completely. It's THEIR game. Not yours. You don't own any part of it. You have a license that grants you the priviledge to play it. Your ownership of the game ends right about where your internet connection begins. What you have on your system is as close to owning any part of it as you will ever get. End of story.

That being said, you have a right to an opinion. We have a right to rebut that opinion if we feel it is flawed, misguided, or misinformed. That does not make us fanbois. It makes us people who play the game and are able to form our own opinions, valid or otherwise. Honestly, the problem people are having with your comments aren't the content, because there are plenty of constructive posts on these forums voicing exactly what you are complaining about, but are doing so in a way that encourages positive and contructive discussion. It's the way you come off in your posts that essentially mark you as either a forum troll or just someone who likes to scream at people through a keyboard. Either way it's going to get you negative responses.

 

[crazyduck]

I feel the pain of things that we 'lost' in previous Alphas that are never coming back and can't bring back without DLL modding. I know it. But, that's part of early access and alpha games. There is going to be a lot of just trying things out - adding in mechanics and content throwing it out there and seeing what works and what doesn't. A lot of times - it will grip you and you will like it - but the devs don't so they try something else. It sucks but that's how it is.
I can also think of many things I loved that they took away. A lot of them I was in the minority in. I liked the forge molds for example. I think most hated them. I liked that each animal had different meat instead of just "Raw Meat" - I liked the more complex crafting that had multiple steps (#stickgate) - i liked the infinite random worlds we used to have -- they have changed lots and removed lots - BUT - they have also added lots.

Part of alpha games is sometimes getting attached to a feature a dev just tries out and decides it doesn't fit their vision. You might of loved it - but it's their baby - not ours.

Funny the Stuff you say you liked is most of the stuff i liked too . And the Problem i have is really not stuff is changing or Features are added or removed for testing.

Problem i have is this.

Take Molds as example. They worked without issues only ting i missed with molds was some sort of Max usage time per Mold so it breaks after some time. They removed the Molds , the Forges look same as before but somewhere magically Keep Tons of molten Iron, Lead, Glass. not really something i like to see in a Survival game thats somethign for a FPS game wiht some sort of crafting addon.

Same with Meat from Animals, same with Resources like Logs to Plank to Stick or insane Stacksizes or this now added faked Encumberance system.

So yes they added much true but there is not really a reason why they had to remove Meat types different Food Types, Molds, Gun Parts , more realistic Stacksizes and such stuff. It was removed cause someone thought "hej lets make this game more easy mode" . It can be done sure but then there should be a way to undo it also if the only Way is to modify most of the Files but also this is not possibel cause looks like Pimps love not to only change Game Mechanics but also make it impossible to change it back .

 

[crazyduck]

You're missing the point completely. It's THEIR game. Not yours. You don't own any part of it. You have a license that grants you the priviledge to play it. Your ownership of the game ends right about where your internet connection begins. What you have on your system is as close to owning any part of it as you will ever get. End of story.
That being said, you have a right to an opinion. We have a right to rebut that opinion if we feel it is flawed, misguided, or misinformed. That does not make us fanbois. It makes us people who play the game and are able to form our own opinions, valid or otherwise. Honestly, the problem people are having with your comments aren't the content, because there are plenty of constructive posts on these forums voicing exactly what you are complaining about, but are doing so in a way that encourages positive and contructive discussion. It's the way you come off in your posts that essentially mark you as either a forum troll or just someone who likes to scream at people through a keyboard. Either way it's going to get you negative responses.

The Fanboy thing he said is true. I see it in so many Games, MMO and also Multiplayer Games like 7days. There are always People around writing somethign in every Thread with a Compain or a negative Review telling the People how great everything is how fantastic everyhign is and if they dont like it they should stop playing.

And yes he is also right with his Zombie removal . also 100% sure if Pimps remove all Zombies and replace them with Animals or Ghosts there would still be enough People defending that telling others its still survival and there was never said it contain Zombies.

 

[WolfyBlah]

You're missing the point completely. It's THEIR game. Not yours. You don't own any part of it. You have a license that grants you the priviledge to play it. Your ownership of the game ends right about where your internet connection begins. What you have on your system is as close to owning any part of it as you will ever get. End of story.
That being said, you have a right to an opinion. We have a right to rebut that opinion if we feel it is flawed, misguided, or misinformed. That does not make us fanbois. It makes us people who play the game and are able to form our own opinions, valid or otherwise. Honestly, the problem people are having with your comments aren't the content, because there are plenty of constructive posts on these forums voicing exactly what you are complaining about, but are doing so in a way that encourages positive and contructive discussion. It's the way you come off in your posts that essentially mark you as either a forum troll or just someone who likes to scream at people through a keyboard. Either way it's going to get you negative responses.

If using swear words (im a damn adult and this game isnt child friendly) makes me a troll then i guess i am.

I never claimed to own the games development or anything lose to that so no idea where you have pulled that idea from.

I dont see how my posts are any less encourageing to discussion than anyone elses just because of a few bad words but whetever. And i have put forth several suggestions for improvments or alternative ways things could be implemented.

 

[WolfyBlah]

Not even close. In this case you got a pink coat IN ADDITION to your green coat. So if u dont like pink feel free to keep wearing your green A16.4 coat. Use either, both, or none of them, its up to you

Except for the fact that a16.4 (all earlier alphas) is never going through the rest of the development process (bug fixing, optimisation, QOL)

So yeah your choice is basicly a unfinished half a green coat that will never get finished, vs pink tank top that will *eventually* be a full finished product (probably not given development practises).

 

[Skeeter63082]

If using swear words (im a damn adult and this game isnt child friendly) makes me a troll then i guess i am.I never claimed to own the games development or anything lose to that so no idea where you have pulled that idea from.

I dont see how my posts are any less encourageing to discussion than anyone elses just because of a few bad words but whetever. And i have put forth several suggestions for improvments or alternative ways things could be implemented.

It has nothing to do with profanity. I'm prior Navy. F*ck is a noun, pronoun, verb, adjective, adverb, preposition, conjunction, and interjection in my normal speach. It's your method of conveying your thoughs. You almost come off as a jaded ass when you complain, and that's all you have done from what I've seen. You haven't put forth any suggestions. All you did was call one feature after another "the single worst addition" or "horrible" without providing any alternative or suggestion for improvement. I don't see how you can view this as encouraging in any way. You almost seem to have it out for TFP in a way that screams some form of entitlement. THAT is what people have a problem with and why you have been blasted on this thread the way you have. Hope that clears it up.

 

[Reth]

Players love to ask for more options because obviously it would be so easy to add.
So what if every option makes the code 5% more complex?

Adding 40 more options only makes the whole 703% as complex and cumbersome to work with and that's not counting the time to constantly test all permutations. What could possibly go wrong?

As the OP mentioned, we already have access to XML config files. Those of us who feel comfortable doing so, already tweak all the options to our liking. But I doubt many do that. Allowing us to change config settings via in-game interface would make the whole process more accessible to the non software-savvy crowd.

More over, you can use it to gather statistics on which settings are favored and which aren't so you can later "prepackage" options into sets. This can be your ultimate testing vehicle.

 

[Skeeter63082]

As the OP mentioned, we already have access to XML config files. Those of us who feel comfortable doing so, already tweak all the options to our liking. But I doubt many do that. Allowing us to change config settings via in-game interface would make the whole process more accessible to the non software-savvy crowd.
More over, you can use it to gather statistics on which settings are favored and which aren't so you can later "prepackage" options into sets. This can be your ultimate testing vehicle.

Now this isn't a bad idea. And also I noted before that the code bloat from doing something like this would be minimal because all you'd be doing is adding on to the front side of the interface, and not so much altering the XML config code. Honestly, if doing this added more than a couple megs to the total file size, I would be highly shocked.

 

[SnowDog1942]

Except for the fact that a16.4 (all earlier alphas) is never going through the rest of the development process (bug fixing, optimisation, QOL)
So yeah your choice is basicly a unfinished half a green coat that will never get finished, vs pink tank top that will *eventually* be a full finished product (probably not given development practises).

When u buy an early access green coat you are buying for its current state with no promise of future improvements. In this case you are in luck, because you apparently dont want those improvements.

 

[ricp]

I dont see how my posts are any less encourageing to discussion than anyone elses just because of a few bad words but whetever.

I don't mind swearing, I'm a Scot after all - our language is held together by a selection of swear words.

If you want an answer as to why I (and this is subjective, of course) think your posts are not encouraging discussion is that you use absolutist terms and phrases. Claiming this or that is broken, that the devs have been wasting time, and the like. Yes we all have opinions but I've said on this site before you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar.

You can say the AI is not perfect, because it's not, instead your deride it completely without referencing the improvements made. It seems it's either got to be 100% for you or it's a complete failure.

I'm not trying to have a go at you, I'm just answering your question.