PC A deep appreciation that the pimps aren't afraid to scrap and rebuild a game system

How many games do you have in your library that force you to nuke your save file with each content DLC, free or not?I don't remember having my Warframe account wiped clean, because they added more story missions, weapons and reworked completely melee combat.
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I dunno, I only play 1 game for the most part.

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Not all games are created equal.Not all designers are created equal.

Not all programmers are created equal.

So this time frame people want to apply is BS.

Another thing people are glossing over is:

TFP were not at this size from the start. It took them time to grow into the current amount of people they have.

So, for every new person they add to the team, means someone (or many someones), is training that person and showing them the ropes of the job they need to do. Training slows crap down..

People have also left. People leaving slows crap down, because now they need someone to fill those shoes, and that new person needs training.
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^this

Tfp is mom and pop who's devs were essentially modders. Sure there were a few real credentials in their resume but not much.

...and look what they've done. I bet all small shops wish they were tfp.

 
However, the snide remarks indicating that it has to be an "original game" or "original IP" is a fallacy since 7d2d is a mix mash of several great games that came before it like say... um... Minecraft. Unless you are talking about pong or space invaders, just about every game is going to be derivative of the long list that came before them.
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Snide remarks? I sincerely don’t believe it’s fair to compare a sequel to an original IP. I looked up World of Warcraft after you mentioned it and it wasn’t built completely from scratch. They did use “graphical elements” from Warcraft 3.

If you see a team making a sequel based off of similar work and assets they have full access to as being the same as a team making a new IP that is similar to other games on the market done by other studios then we can’t bridge such a gap in perspectives.

I also looked up Hearthstone btw which is nothing like WOW or Warcraft and the article specifically stated that the Hearthstone team was given access to all art assets Blizzard owned which sped up development immeasurably.

Not only is 7 Days not a sequel but it is the first game in TFPs quiver. If their second game takes 7-8 years to make then there’s a problem. But we already know they are developing modular systems they plan to reuse in future projects which should make future games have shorter dev cycles than this one has.

 
Patent Tolland has a nice ring to it. If only I could think up something to patent in the first place so I could sue over it in the second place and earn some settlement scratch in the third place...

Interesting read. Thanks. :)

 
Snide remarks? I sincerely don’t believe it’s fair to compare a sequel to an original IP. I looked up World of Warcraft after you mentioned it and it wasn’t built completely from scratch. They did use “graphical elements” from Warcraft 3.
If you see a team making a sequel based off of similar work and assets they have full access to as being the same as a team making a new IP that is similar to other games on the market done by other studios then we can’t bridge such a gap in perspectives.
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I'll say it again because apparently it needs to be said... zero art was used from WCIII in WoW. Now, Samwise's concept art might have been used to create the assets but that's about it. Even then, I think he might have redone most of it for the higher poly characters and them being larger than 1 inch on the screen.

Regardless, you asked the question about a AAA game with a shorter development cycle. I brought up several and here we are. Hell, I didn't even mention Hearthstone but that was a completely new game from Blizzard that was done as a passion project by small internal team. I'd bring up LOL but that is gonna be considered a sequel by y'all since it was originally a mod for WC III. Doesn't matter that it was a small team that took that to the next level, making new champions, maps, engine, and platform to ship it. I guess UO doesn't count either because there were the Ultima games before that.

Y'all didn't touch EQ though. Although I suppose one could argue that it was just a different take on Meridian 59, UO, Darksun Online, and that no real true break through innovation or development happened there. Brad copied all that from other games. Standing on the shoulders of giants one might say.

I get that y'all are the the cheerleaders that have to tow the company line. I feel for you, honestly. Quite frankly, TFP can take the next 7 years doing free DLC to take us to Alpha 22, Beta 1, Omega 13, Gold Master_001, or whatever you want to call it. I give zero zeds about that at this point. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I just really hate seeing people getting shut down by y'all with the tired "it's alpha" defense. Studios have designed and shipped titles similar to this in the timeframe. Hell, Epic made Fortnite, had it fail, redesigned it in beta, and is now one of the most popular games on the planet with years of release under their belt. All while 7d2d was "in alpha" (on PC).

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Perhaps not even then....

-Morloc
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There is a special place in hell for game patent trolls. Ranks right up there with the guy that created double ads for YouTube videos.

 
I am glad that someone had the foreknowledge about examples of game development to put a dent in the endless wall of TFP apologetics. Clearly the development is taking a long time in comparison to at least some other studios. I guess now the excuse is shifting to "TFP is a small team" or "early access started early". Development is slow, and combine that with the fact they can't decide on the features they want. We get a crappy gun part system, years later we get a crappy "gun in every house" system, maybe in a couple years they will sort it out? The new perk system in A18 looks crappy. So, a year to get a crappy perk system, ??? years until they fix it and actually design a good progression system. Kill me already. I maintain what I said. This ♥♥♥♥ should already have been sorted out before they wasted their precious tortoise-speed developer hours developing it. If they need ideas, there is no lack of them. I've already spent countless hours "playtesting" the game, written essays about it, I could write essays more too. They should first construct a vision of the finished product, then follow though with it. Eye on the prize.

 
If they need ideas, there is no lack of them. I've already spent countless hours "playtesting" the game, written essays about it, I could write essays more too. They should first construct a vision of the finished product, then follow though with it. Eye on the prize.
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There are so many people who just know the only correct way to perfection, too bad they are only producing essays instead of results :cocksure:

 
I get that y'all are the the cheerleaders that have to tow the company line. I feel for you, honestly. Quite frankly, TFP can take the next 7 years doing free DLC to take us to Alpha 22, Beta 1, Omega 13, Gold Master_001, or whatever you want to call it. I give zero zeds about that at this point. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I just really hate seeing people getting shut down by y'all with the tired "it's alpha" defense. Studios have designed and shipped titles similar to this in the timeframe. Hell, Epic made Fortnite, had it fail, redesigned it in beta, and is now one of the most popular games on the planet with years of release under their belt. All while 7d2d was "in alpha" (on PC).
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Nobody is shutting down anyone. Some of what you say contradicts articles that I found and sure-- it's the internet and anyone can edit Wikipedia-- but then who the heck are you and why should your take on how games were developed be taken as the truth at face value?

But assuming you are correct in your facts you are still wrong about anyone getting shut down. Everyone is free to share their opinion and as long as it breaks no rules it stands and is able to be read by all who come to this thread. Both Wyrda's and your comments and perspectives are still here along with those who wrote a different perspective. They co-exist side by side for people to read and to make their own decisions based on how compelling the arguments are that they read along with their own biases. Some will read your explanation and perspective and nod their head and feel absolute outrage and shock that it has taken so much longer for these developers to work on this game than pretty much every other studio out there.

As for "feeling for us" that aren't concerned by the length of the development, thanks, but we aren't the ones getting weepy or angry about that length. We are fine with it and hope that they continue to polish and add to the game for years to come. You're right that the name of the update release doesn't matter. What matters is that update releases continue to come and the game continues to evolve in interesting ways which I believe it has.

 
It has been a long process. Has it been too long? In my opinion, it will only have been too long if nobody returns to play the final version once it releases.
If most of the people who have moved on because of how long it has taken come back and try it again and get hooked again then it really doesn’t matter.

And this game is strong in the force that sucks people back in after time away.
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Nobody is shutting down anyone. Some of what you say contradicts articles that I found and sure-- it's the internet and anyone can edit Wikipedia-- but then who the heck are you and why should your take on how games were developed be taken as the truth at face value?
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One has to be living under a rock to think that the development cycles are normal/fast tbh. And while the game is great and fills a gap in the market no other game has filled until now (they could have though) - so it will definitely survive and thrive (already has), it still loses momentum and deters some players at these rates - it's impossible not to.

However, should TFP get criticized for it? It's still their business whether they will choose to rush, rehash, or release. For whatever reason, the development is slow and, personally, I am not exactly happy with it, but the game is worth it.

 
Development time isnt really a concern for most, what is, is the current state of the game. Lack of zombies outside

and too many inside for instance. Bloodmoons and dungeons rapidly turning into a bullet spongefests with rapidly diminishing returns .

RWG went from sublime to unworkable (Yes we know about mods) lbd, gating, mining etc etc. There are concerns about zombie numbers dropping again when bandits and npcs are introduced and no one indicating whether its even possible to get the numbers needed.

Most of the concerns raised are from long term players dismayed at the changes to what was an almost perfected game which now seems badly broken and will inevitably draw criticism from people with so much time invested in it.

I dont think there is any real venom aimed at TFP (by most at least) but there is a lot of concern over the change in direction and its impact on how the game plays.

Obviously the game is their baby and their vision, we can only hope it goes back towards the game it was. If it doesnt we all have the option to move on.

Whichever way you look at it no-one can say they didnt get their moneys worth and how many games can you say THAT about.

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Could you give some examples that aren't sequels or redesigns of an existing IP?
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Are there any examples of a game that's been in alpha for six years and is still trying to work out its core mechanics?

...why do people want the development to end so badly?
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I don't think anyone is arguing for the development to end or to be shorter. People want to see 7D continue to be developed.

Short dev time = fewer polished features and some half assedness
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A17 took 1.5 years, yet one of the main complaints were fewer polished features and some half assedness.

 
Are there any examples of a game that's been in alpha for six years and is still trying to work out its core mechanics?
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https://overmental.com/content/10-games-that-spent-the-longest-time-in-development-2-672

https://screenrant.com/15-video-games-that-spent-way-too-long-in-development/

I don't think anyone is arguing for the development to end or to be shorter. People want to see 7D continue to be developed.
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https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?119078-7-days-to-die-alpha-39!!!!

I see posts like these about once a month.

A17 took 1.5 years, yet one of the main complaints were fewer polished features and some half assedness.
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The one alpha that required updating to the latest engine. I guess A1 thru A16 were bad examples.

 
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https://overmental.com/content/10-games-that-spent-the-longest-time-in-development-2-672
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Wow that's an interesting read. Considering 7D2D spent some time in development before alpha, and still has a ways to go, 7D2D could easily make the top 5 in that list by the time it's finished.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?119078-7-days-to-die-alpha-39!!!!

I see posts like these about once a month.
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This person isn't arguing for development to end or be shorter. They're wondering why the game is so buggy after six years of alpha testing. They're still in support of the game being further developed.

The one alpha that required updating to the latest engine. I guess A1 thru A16 were bad examples.
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You're right. I agree with you now that it's unfair to single out the A17 update due to the new engine.

 
Wow that's an interesting read. Considering 7D2D spent some time in development before alpha, and still has a ways to go, 7D2D could easily make the top 5 in that list by the time it's finished.
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Maybe it can unseat Duke Nukem Forever.

 
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