PC 7 Days To Die optimization

[meganoth]

I actually do know someone with a 11900K who knows what he is doing when it comes to PC´s and gaming.

Even if I knew what I'm doing I could not prevent having problems with dyn.meshes. Be really happy that you actually can turn it off.

And the fact that there is no way avoiding this is the problem here. Turning things off just for a certain area is just not it.

So there is a way avoiding the problem that you just discount here so that you can say there is no way avoiding it?  .

Turn off dyn.mesh for the whole game and be done with it. Or complain endlessly that you are eating a poisoned carrot just because it is dangling before your nose. 

A feature that you can´t use without having lag, meh. Well gotta wait if this can be solved, the lack of T5 POI´s generated is boring af anyways. 

Yeah, happens in EA. May I remind you about the bugged minibikes in A15 we had to live with for a year. No option there to simply turn it off.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I was actually saying that the problem exists and that blabbering about streamers for what ever reason and you guys claiming that they lie about their setups doesn´t make the problem go away.

And as said, i am not gonna tinker with settings just because of a certain area not beeing able to enjoy itin the rest of the world that doesn´t have any problems with lag, i rather wait.

Three posts equals endlessly? Good to know....

 

[SylenThunder]

for what ever reason and you guys claiming that they lie about their setups doesn´t make the problem go away.

I'm not aware of anyone saying any such thing.

I'll also note that I'm not experiencing huge lag drops in cities. Yes there is a little bit, but that's always been there when it's loading buildings looking around.

I've tested some of the complaints about the Dishong tower as well and have not experienced the same dips. I posted detailed information on it over in the Steam forum.

 

[Maharin]

The easiest way to avoid the problem is to not play 7DTD.  Wait, that isn't easy to do at all... forget it, carry on.

 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

Right now, you can´t buy any CPU that doesn´t lag in cities. It´s a fact, the lack of optimization shows as strong as never before during development. You can´t talk that away. Now i am not saying fully optimize right now, but denying the problem is just a no go tbh.

And it´s only cities, so turning options down, just for a certain area is annoying af and not a solution, it´s not even a workaround.

For me it´s either using KingGen and not having the new tile system and cities. Or waiting for optimization. As much as i like the new cities there is no fun in playing right now with those lags. 

TY that is what i have been trying to say this whole time just didnt know how

The easiest way to avoid the problem is to not play 7DTD.  Wait, that isn't easy to do at all... forget it, carry on.

yes i agree it drives me insane everyday i cant play it thank god i have grandspartand and kage to keep me semi-sane ATM till game does get optimized

 

[Pernicious]

Right now, you can´t buy any CPU that doesn´t lag in cities. It´s a fact,

Say what?

I'm playing perfectly fine on an 8086k, everything cranked up up, including 64 max zombies. I mean, it's not 100+Fps, but I wouldn't describe 45fps as lag, it's just not perfectly smooth. Many movies are still played at the traditional 25fps.

 

[meganoth]

I was actually saying that the problem exists and that blabbering about streamers for what ever reason and you guys claiming that they lie about their setups doesn´t make the problem go away.

I said that we don't know about their setup. If we asked them we might or might not find reasons why they have problems with FPS. Sylen even offered a likely explanation why streamers often see performance problems.

The ones we can ask, for example simple questions like "What is your CPU?", instead pull another anonymous guy out of the hat we can't ask about details.

Note I do not doubt your friend exists and I don't assume he lies to you. It just doesn't help with your claim if we can't check the circumstances. Instead we have lots of people here on the forum saying they can play the game in cities with current CPUs. And only one of them being factually correct refutes your claim as stated.

I actually asked you IF YOU KNOW about the setup of the streamers. You avoided to answer that questions just like you never answered the question about your CPU. I don't discount streamers outright, but they have no better claim on the truth than any random guy.

Performance is a problem? In general that is known for years. Did you miss all the statements of TFP that they can't increase the zombies much?

Fact is also that dynamic meshes seem to be another cause of performance problems and if TFP can't solve them reasonably then that option will surely be turned off by default when the game releases.

And as said, i am not gonna tinker with settings just because of a certain area not beeing able to enjoy itin the rest of the world that doesn´t have any problems with lag, i rather wait.

That is always a choice. Illogical in my view when playing an alpha and concering an area that might be small in quadratic miles but where almost everything happens, but so be it. If I didn't turn off some options I would never have been able to play the game well with my current reasonably priced and at least 3 year old PC.

Three posts equals endlessly? Good to know....

Yeah, that was hyperbole. I fail at being a 100% rational being as well

 

[RyanX]

Right now, you can´t buy any CPU that doesn´t lag in cities. It´s a fact, the lack of optimization shows as strong as never before during development. You can´t talk that away. Now i am not saying fully optimize right now, but denying the problem is just a no go tbh.

Well said.  With each alpha, optimization continues to take a hit.  That little "stutter" that crept in a few alphas ago has been here so long that I think most people have gotten used to it.  Bad hitboxes, stutters, etc. etc. can't be covered up by adding more "features" or "content", it accentuates it.  Dying because a zed spawns on top of you trapping you in a closet is not ok.  It ruins immersion and just @%$#es you off.  But, realistically this topic has been discussed ad nauseum and those who try to talk it down are in denial.

 

[meganoth]

Well said.  With each alpha, optimization continues to take a hit. 

Strictly speaking it is the other way round, TFP adds more stuff that costs performance, some of it previously won through optimization. AND they seem to target better and better PCs as time goes on. A consequence of the release date being farther and farther in the future.

That little "stutter" that crept in a few alphas ago has been here so long that I think most people have gotten used to it. 

The stutter when opening chests and inventory? Yes, a consequence of the unity engine having a garbage collection routine that costs too much with all the things happening in the game. Now it is relegated to occur only where it doesn't matter much but where it is much more conspicuous.

Bad hitboxes, stutters, etc. etc. can't be covered up by adding more "features" or "content", it accentuates it.  Dying because a zed spawns on top of you trapping you in a closet is not ok.  It ruins immersion and just @%$#es you off.  But, realistically this topic has been discussed ad nauseum and those who try to talk it down are in denial.

I'm not saying the problems don't exist. A game that could run well on 8 year old PCs could have been released a few years ago and it wouldn't have been bad. But it wouldn't have the features TFP were promising in the kickstarter and it would have been much much smaller on all levels. Some players are fine with the direction 7D took since then, some are not. And if you are not fine with the direction, additional bugs or performance problems may seem like the ruined icing on the ruined cake.

But me, I'm fine with that direction. I'm fine with more and new bugs if I can experience another alpha with new features and changed gameplay. If it is denial to actually have fun with a bigger game even though I have to experience bugs and turn off some graphics options I don't care much about, then so be it.

 

[Pernicious]

Strictly speaking it is the other way round, TFP adds more stuff that costs performance, some of it previously won through optimization. AND they seem to target better and better PCs as time goes on. A consequence of the release date being farther and farther in the future.

You reminded me of the furor around the release of Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. The game was perfectly playable on the 980Tis which were the flagships at the time, but even with a top end gaming machine, you couldn't have all features on and textures on ultra. The developers made a comment that they had written the game to take advantage of DX12 features they saw coming, but weren't here yet (And implemented them much more slowly on DX11), and it really divided the community: Those that loved the game, and even enjoyed the lower settings, calling it still one of the best graphical experiences of the time. And those that simply couldn't get past the fact that their top end gaming rig couldn't run top end settings and called the game unplayable.

And that was with a finished AAA game.

The very first game I had Beta access to, they vetted Beta invitees (And in fact, not only was the game free to Beta testers, we then got private invites to the launch event - got special packs that were only given to media, etc.) They wanted to make sure that Beta testers knew what they were up for and had the right skills and mindset to handle it: Unstable programs, unfinished features, and the ability to read debug messages and know how to report bugs.

I guess this is the down side of the "hybrid" release model. A bit CICD, a bit Alpha, a bit "Game's not ready yet, but we've gotten the worst bugs out, so we can sell it to early adopters who know what they're in for." Unfortunately, it does seem like a small but vocal minority didn't know what they were in for, not helped by the fact that the "But it's Alpha" excuse has been stretched a bit thin.

I have to admit, it does get my goat a little that people speak of "Optimisation" like it's just a step in programming that the developers were too lazy to do, when this game is so much more ambitious than many others, in terms of things that need to be calculated. Why do people get shocked that frame rates drop in big cities, yet, nobody seemed that surprised when the Zerg rush came in Starcraft, or late game 60 empire, 1000 star system Stellaris? I guess it seems understandable when they can see the 500 zergs, and 500 fleets, but "We have 128 players and multiple skyscrapers in Battlefield, and that plays fine!".

Oh well, it is what it is, and fans of the game just have to be patient with those who don't understand.

 

[FinkPloyd]

Minimal specs of 7D2D are:

Processor: 2.4 Ghz Dual Core CPU.

Memory: 8 GB RAM.

Graphics: 2 GB Dedicated Memory.

So your laptop does not meet minimum specs.

Ryzen 5 3500u is 2.1 GHz (boosting to a max of 3.7GHz) and you dont have 2Gb dedicated graphics memory (as the Vega 8 shares the systems 8Gb RAM).

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

So i turned off dynamic mesh. Actually no difference. Drops and stuttering lag. Medium to high settings. And no i refuse to turn down my settings further just for one area.

 

[Roland]

Oh well, it is what it is, and fans of the game just have to be patient with those who don't understand.

I refuse to turn down my impatience for just one small area of the player base that doesn't understand that they are playing a WIP game!!!

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Roland As i said before in this topic i don´t demand optimization right now, i am very well aware of what early access is and what it means to play it. As i also said before here, i rather wait than playing this mess right now. But the direction this is going is not looking good. I do run one of the most sold CPU`s a R5 3600. Wich isn´t the strongest out there, but you do wanna target your product to a broad mass and not to PC enthusiasts only.

I highly doubt that optimization will do huge wonders here. I can usually run high to ultra settings but downtown even all medium and dynamic mesh off doesn´t help. I am glad if i am wrong, but i see a final version of this game that is highly demanding on the hardware and still has an absurdly low amount of zombies. Wich would really suck.

 

[RudyPolak]

So your laptop does not meet minimum specs.

Ryzen 5 3500u is 2.1 GHz (boosting to a max of 3.7GHz) and you dont have 2Gb dedicated graphics memory (as the Vega 8 shares the systems 8Gb RAM).

Ryzen 5 2500u had 1gb Dedicated VRAM, though 3rd gen Ryzen 5 does have 2gb already

@Roland As i said before in this topic i don´t demand optimization right now, i am very well aware of what early access is and what it means to play it. As i also said before here, i rather wait than playing this mess right now. But the direction this is going is not looking good. I do run one of the most sold CPU`s a R5 3600. Wich isn´t the strongest out there, but you do wanna target your product to a broad mass and not to PC enthusiasts only.

I highly doubt that optimization will do huge wonders here. I can usually run high to ultra settings but downtown even all medium and dynamic mesh off doesn´t help. I am glad if i am wrong, but i see a final version of this game that is highly demanding on the hardware and still has an absurdly low amount of zombies. Wich would really suck.

Welp for now im Gotta wait till a huge update, on which FPS Will be more stable. I even tried to get Down with settings in config and i have 60fps,but it looks more like minecraft than 7DTD sadly, or i Will just get dual Channel for my laptop. Anyway thx for help everyone

 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

I refuse to turn down my impatience for just one small area of the player base that doesn't understand that they are playing a WIP game!!!

trust me roland when i say i think we do understand we just dont like being dismissed like common scrubs that have zero clue what we are talking i have seen plenty of games even voxel based not do as well still doesnt mean the player base doesnt know what they are talking about and if you dont believe me just go ask the mod community

 

[Pernicious]

It took all the rebuttal for me to realise @Roland was mimicking/mocking @pApA^LeGBa's post. I read it, and thought it was a bit of a strange way to turn a phrase!

@Jason Tamosiunis I think if we drew a Venn diagram between modders and optimisation complainers, I don't think we would have much of an overlap. I mean, that said, I'm no expert either. I do security and networking... But I've always been a keen PC builder and overclocker, so optimising my PC and looking at bottlenecks has always been a bit of an interest to me.

Change of topic, but related to "Optimisation", I started playing Doom 2016 recently (Old game, but a friend recently started playing, so I joined him - and then we found PC multiplayer is pretty dead). Anyway, Doom has some really cool performance metrics, that tells you what is bottlenecking your performance - CPU or GPU:



You can see here, that the CPU is totally bottlenecking my performance - it is the one introducing the vast amount of latency (16.81ms vs the GPU's 2.76ms).

I'm assuming something like this would be quite a substantial piece of code to write, and difficult to backfit into someone else's engine, but damn, that would be a nice diagnostics tool to have.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Pernicious Install MSI Afterburner. It does have an on screen display that you can turn on to show you things like CPU/GPU/Memory Usage. And you can use it no matter what brand of GPU you are using.

In 7 days to die it´s definitly the CPU that is bottlenecking. And it´s the single core performance that is the problem. High core counts sadly don´t do anything in gaming. All of the game engines out there need to step up here and make those cores count.

 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

It took all the rebuttal for me to realise @Roland was mimicking/mocking @pApA^LeGBa's post. I read it, and thought it was a bit of a strange way to turn a phrase!

@Jason Tamosiunis I think if we drew a Venn diagram between modders and optimisation complainers, I don't think we would have much of an overlap. I mean, that said, I'm no expert either. I do security and networking... But I've always been a keen PC builder and overclocker, so optimising my PC and looking at bottlenecks has always been a bit of an interest to me.

Change of topic, but related to "Optimisation", I started playing Doom 2016 recently (Old game, but a friend recently started playing, so I joined him - and then we found PC multiplayer is pretty dead). Anyway, Doom has some really cool performance metrics, that tells you what is bottlenecking your performance - CPU or GPU:

View attachment 24081

You can see here, that the CPU is totally bottlenecking my performance - it is the one introducing the vast amount of latency (16.81ms vs the GPU's 2.76ms).

I'm assuming something like this would be quite a substantial piece of code to write, and difficult to backfit into someone else's engine, but damn, that would be a nice diagnostics tool to have.

i agree just saying i wish TFP and the moderators would stop dismissing us like we have no clue at all what we are saying we do know more than they realize and it is rather insulting to be told otherwise

 

[meganoth]

i agree just saying i wish TFP and the moderators would stop dismissing us like we have no clue at all what we are saying we do know more than they realize and it is rather insulting to be told otherwise

Then please show your knowledge and instead of just demanding nebulous optimizations say what TFP should do specifically. I mentioned their dilemma here (all AFAIK, if I'm wrong please correct me): https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/27890-7-days-to-die-optimization/?do=findComment&comment=475947

papa^Legba is quite right when he says game engines need to step up and make their engines more multicore, the age of single-core was known to be over for a long time. Since Fataal said he has aready milked all optimizations that would produce large gains his means are limited. I'm sure with polishing he will get some of the stuttering away but large gains in FPS? Not likely if they want to release inside say 2 years.

So i turned off dynamic mesh. Actually no difference. Drops and stuttering lag. Medium to high settings. And no i refuse to turn down my settings further just for one area.

Too bad. I thought I had the penicillin of A20 since turning it off made a world of difference on my machine (ryzen 5 2600x). But I also turn off some other stuff you may refuse to touch and I don't mind the game looking less than optimum.