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!!7 Days to Die Asset Mod!! ....? What do ya think?

Oh hey gais, I just haven't seen anybody talk about the master mod that is collecting assets for everyone to use. See gais, if this is something totally different now and whatnot, gais I'm sorry. But it would be like, totally cool of everyone if the idea of a resource mod would not die off. At least I think so.

Edit: Oh and talking about what the recent posts talk about is super of course. I made an approach myself once, to have a system that will allow combining mods. It's here:

M³ could also be made into a multi-user online tool. This would need some form of login, as every user needs their own subfolder for mods and modded xml-files. As an online-tool, it could be a mod-buffet where users can compose their personal mod out of a database. There could be, for example, a section for weapons. Each weapon has it's own modfile, with everything in it, the parts, the recipes, the schematics, the ammo, the lootlist. The user only has to activate the weapons of choice to add them to their individual mod.
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So all I'm trying to say is that y'all should not let the master mod idea die off, it's a great one, k..?

 
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A master mod would be pointless if there were modlets that accomplished the same thing; and modlets would allow for the better combining of mods, a better distribution system, AND allow for the modders themselves to choose which of THEIR mods would be included in the "master modlet list".

And, we can go round and round debating what it's called or whether or not it's on topic, OR, we could actually get some stuff done, like a framework for how it should/could/would work.

 
I think that would defeat the goal of ordering paid assets at will guppycur. Then one could only use what modmakers want to share as modlet. Maybe that's the goal for some. Imo modlets can be very helpful. As you mentioned before it is gonna help tremendously if standards and conventions are in place. But also this way modmakers can still decide to keep an asset exclusive to own mod if they want to. That will ensure uniqueness when wanted. And not as with the idea of the Mastermod having to face mods that all look alike.

I think it could work brilliantly.

Cheers

 
Yeh there was definitely too much contention about the paid asset scene; Manu got some clarification from Sketchfab, but he hasn't heard back from Unity; either way, like you said, the mod makers decide what parts to share, and that's how it should be, so yeh. Full credit to Sphereii and Xyth though.

 
In the end, when they are combined for our mod, they form one blocks.XML. But it would allow another user to take just my trees and combine it to Jax's decor.

So we would both have vanilla-tree.xml, I would have medi-trees.xml and Jax rh-trees.xml.

... that would take an incredible amount of coordination and egos we need to be left at the door. One person would need to be in charge of setting up the conventions, and I vote sphereii.
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Beside the naming convention I think there still is one step that only TFP can and has to do and that is that is simplified xml combining I.e. the game needs to read in blocks.*.xml or *-blocks.xml instead of just blocks.xml (in a defined order)

 
A master mod would be pointless if there were modlets that accomplished the same thing; and modlets would allow for the better combining of mods, a better distribution system, AND allow for the modders themselves to choose which of THEIR mods would be included in the "master modlet list".
And, we can go round and round debating what it's called or whether or not it's on topic, OR, we could actually get some stuff done, like a framework for how it should/could/would work.
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If these "modlets" would contain assets that everybody can use, then yes. So for example, if you made a modlet with your dragons and goblins or whatever you have in your medieval mod, and someone else could download your monster pack and use it for their mod, then it would be the same thing. Actually, it would be the thing that Spider proposed with his different asset-packs.
I understood the recent discussion as about something that Skyrim does, that the end user can put together their own combination of different mods. Obviously a great idea as well, if your seperate xml-concept will work out. Sounds much like what I had in mind with M³, just that M³ would let the end-user choose what kind of items and blocks and so on they want and then the script produces XML-files from the selection. This also allows to have a settings section, here for example the one for "my mod":

Code: 
// PROGRESSION

// max level of the player
$globalSettings["playermaxlevel"] = 1;

// SETTINGS
// 1 always means "do it" - example: "no combine function" -> 1 there is none, 0 it remains there

// ZOMBIES

// seconds before dead zombies turn to gore blocks
$globalSettings["TimeStayAfterDeath"] = 10;
// 1 = gore blocks don't disappear by themselves
$globalSettings["eternalGore"] = 1;
// zombies walking on burnt forest ground burn (it does not hurt them)
$globalSettings["burningForestGround"] = 1;

// CRAFTING

// complex crafting -> blades of grass, sticks, sharp stone, molds, etc.
$globalSettings["complexCrafting"] = 1;
// pick up cinder blocks -> can be crafted into stone (only when complex crafting is enabled)
$globalSettings["pickUpCinder"] = 1;
// pick up scrap metal piles -> pick up as item "scrap metal (only when complex crafting is enabled)
$globalSettings["pickUpMetalPiles"] = 1;

// springs cannot be crafted
$globalSettings["noSpringCrafting"] = 1;
// electricParts and electronicParts cannot be crafted
$globalSettings["noElectrPartsCrafting"] = 1;

// QUESTS
// main quest: "chain" = finishing q1 starts q2 and so on; "para" = all quests start parallel
$globalSettings["mainQuest"] = "para";

// BLOCKS

// reasonable max damage for block shapes (ramp = 50% of block etc.)
$globalSettings["shapeBasedDamage"] = 1;
// the old upgrade paths -> 1 = not allowed
$globalSettings["rWoodMetal to scrapIron"] = 1;
$globalSettings["brick to pouredConcrete"] = 1;
$globalSettings["cobblestone to pouredConcrete"] = 1;
$globalSettings["rScrapIron to pouredConcrete"] = 1;
$globalSettings["rConcrete to steel"] = 1;
$globalSettings["steel to rConcrete"] = 1;
// no combine function to get higher quality items disabled
$globalSettings["nocombineworkbench"] = 1;
// replace ugly concrete textures
$globalSettings["newconcretetexture"] = 1;
// plant growing time in minutes -> two stages (150 = 300 total), vanilla is "63" = 126 total
$globalSettings["growtimeplants"] = 150;

// ITEMS

// stack size of ammo
$globalSettings["ammoStack"] = 20000;
// 100+ items with no purpose (can be scrapped)
$globalSettings["clutterItems"] = 1;
// increased stack sizes for meds, glasses, materials
$globalSettings["stackSizes"] = 1;
// adjust melee weapon and tool ranges (only affects entities)
$globalSettings["attackranges"] = 1;
// no ray-spread for most weapons (shotguns still have spread)
$globalSettings["removerayspread"] = 1;
// exploding arrows and flaming bolts can be crafted
$globalSettings["explodingArrowsAndBolts"] = 1;
// machete variations
$globalSettings["macheteLight"] = 1;
// club variations
$globalSettings["clubVariations"] = 1;
// sledgehammer variations
$globalSettings["sledgehammerFire"] = 1;
// no clubs in loot -> nice motivation for the club quest
$globalSettings["noClubs"] = 1;
// hunting rifle = 3 shots, sniper rifle = 2 shots
$globalSettings["rifleAndRockeLauncherTweaks"] = 1;
// new weapons
$globalSettings["grenadeLauncher"] = 1;
$globalSettings["minigun"] = 1;
$globalSettings["UZI"] = 1;
// reasonable entity damage for all tools
$globalSettings["toolsareweapons"] = 1;
// reduce armor protection by 25%
$globalSettings["reducedArmorProtection"] = 1;
// recipes for the barrels of the modded weapon variations
$globalSettings["pistolrecipes"] = 0;
// 0 = modded weapons can be assembled, ammo can be taken out
$globalSettings["hideModdedWeaponRecipes"] = 0;
// special repair kit for modded?
$globalSettings["moddedWeaponRepairKit"] = 0;
// make headshots count -> vanilla * value
// for bows and crossbows
$globalSettings["headShotMultiplierArchery"] = 2.4;
// for ranged weapons (arrows, bolts, bullets)
$globalSettings["headShotMultiplierRanged"] = 1;
// headshot multiplier for melee
$globalSettings["headShotMultiplierMelee"] = 1;
// hitpoints of the basic attack when player is naked
// (stronger attacks are calculated based on this number)
$globalSettings["basicZombieStrength"] = 49;
// armor has a static protection, only durability differences
$globalSettings["staticArmor"] = 1;
// hitpoints when the player is wearing that armor
// -> this is based on the basic attack, so basic attack deals "$globalSettings["basicZombieStrength"]" hitpoints -> 49,
// wearing plant fiber armor reduces it to 32 and so on until military armor, reducing attacks to 8 hitpoints
$armorHitpoints["plantFiberArmor"] 	= 32;
$armorHitpoints["clothArmor"] 		= 29;
$armorHitpoints["hazmatArmor"] 		= 26;
$armorHitpoints["hideArmor"] 		= 23;
$armorHitpoints["leatherArmor"] 	= 20;
$armorHitpoints["scrapArmor"] 		= 17;
$armorHitpoints["banditArmor"] 		= 14;
$armorHitpoints["ironArmor"] 		= 11;
$armorHitpoints["militaryArmor"] 	= 8;

// clothing
$globalSettings["ironHideArmor"] = 1;
$globalSettings["lightHelmets"] = 1;
// tools
$globalSettings["fastTools"] = 1;
// food
$globalSettings["honeyPie"] = 1;

// BUFFS

// add deafness buff - value is duration; 0 = no deafness buff
$gobalSettings["deafnessBuff"] = 100;
// nothing protects against stun (cept the cooldown)
$gobalSettings["noStunProtection"] = 1;
// adjust stun duration (value = seconds - vanilla is "4"
$gobalSettings["adjustStunDuration"] = 2;
// permanent healing - get healed all the time, value is amount
$gobalSettings["permaHealAmount"] = 0.05;
// only food and the permaHeal-buff heal (no meds besides splint, antibiotics and bandages)
$gobalSettings["noMedz"] = 1;

// LOOT

$globalSettings["noLeveledLoot"] = 1;

// BIOMES / RWGMIXER / PREFABS

// Biomes arranged in rings
$globalSettings["ringworld"] = 1;
// tweak terrain (no water, flatness)
$globalSettings["terrain"] = 1;
// how flat should the world be? 45 = recommended as flattest -> only works in comb. with "terrain" = 1
$globalSettings["flatworld"] = 45;
// performance: low or high -> high = less / low = more biome decorations (trees, grass, ...)
$globalSettings["fps"] = "high";
// no potato / blueberry / corn
$globalSettings["noFoodFields"] = 1;
// no overground lead/coal/shale/nitrate-piles
$gobalSettings["no-resource-piles"] = 1;

$gobalSettings["wasteland_burntPines"] = 0.0002;
$gobalSettings["wasteland_dryPines"] = 0.00001;

$gobalSettings["city_burntPines"] = 0.0009;
$globalSettings["clutterblockcount"] = 0.001;

// MISC

// minimalistic hud (0 = vanilla)
$globalSettings["tinyhud"] = 1;
// larger minibike storage
$globalSettings["largerbikestorage"] = 1;
// all entities (inc. player) move faster -> value = movement factor, anything goes (slower too), 0 = vanilla
$globalSettings["fastentities"] = 1.1;
// increase heatmap for explosions
$globalSettings["heatmapstrengthExplosions"] = 5;
// number of gascans crafted from biofuel and grain alcohol
$globalSettings["gasCanNumber"] = 200;
Changing a few numbers can turn that into a completely different experience, for example en- or disable the old upgrade path.

Anyways, these two are beyond any doubt entirely different concepts and not the same thing with two names. Cuz a mod is not just a bunch of tree models. The tree models are actually the least important thing of a mod, in my (humble) opinion.

 
Mods are about what the people want, and what modders are willing to share. People want variety, so yeh, tree models may not be at the top of your list (they're certainly not at the top of mine), they may be at the top of Jim Bob's.

I see a MUCH higher likelyhood of modders releasing a medieval-trees.unity3d file than I do a modder conforming to a new scripting system that doesn't benefit them, even if it would benefit them.

Xpath is the way SDX integrates xml's, and if I read my horoscope correctly, it's what the pimps are going to use for modding as well. Clever use of Xpath will allow appends and overwrites of sections, especially if the xml's are separated into their little sections.

I know we used probably 8, 9 different .xml's just for entities in Medieval, something I absolutely HATED doing while doing it, but I do see the long term benefits of breaking down the xml's into sections as well.

 
Mods are about what the people want, and what modders are willing to share. People want variety, so yeh, tree models may not be at the top of your list (they're certainly not at the top of mine), they may be at the top of Jim Bob's.
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What I've been trying to say is that an asset pack is not a mod at all. It does nothing. A mod is needed to place the tree models, make them drop things, allow them to be growable. And you can do such things with models already in the game. It's just not as pretty or suitable as a new model.

So, master mod = basically a soulless pack of models. Elements, for the talented modder to turn into something great. The Chinese guy for example.

I see a MUCH higher likelyhood of modders releasing a medieval-trees.unity3d file than I do a modder conforming to a new scripting system that doesn't benefit them, even if it would benefit them.
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Unfortunately, I have reason to agree with you. A new scripting system coming from the devs might be convincing, though. Plus an editor, that allows anybody to mod with just an interface where they can change values, like that stacknumber. Then you can export the commands and distribute them.

What I made really is super basic. You basically literally say "change that property value" or "copy that block" or "create that lootlist". An almost flat learning curve.

Xpath is the way SDX integrates xml's, and if I read my horoscope correctly, it's what the pimps are going to use for modding as well. Clever use of Xpath will allow appends and overwrites of sections, especially if the xml's are separated into their little sections.
I know we used probably 8, 9 different .xml's just for entities in Medieval, something I absolutely HATED doing while doing it, but I do see the long term benefits of breaking down the xml's into sections as well.
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So you can just provide XML-snippets? For example, if I wanted to change the stack size of emptyJars, I could create a small xml-file containing just:

Code: 
<item id="1368" name="emptyJar">
<property name="Meshfile" value="Items/Food/emptyJarPrefab"/>
<property name="Material" value="glass"/>
<property name="HoldType" value="3"/>
<property name="Stacknumber" value="5000"/> <!-- STK resource -->
<property name="Weight" value="10"/>
<property name="EconomicValue" value="6"/>
<property name="CraftingIngredientTime" value="9"/>
<property class="Action1"> <!-- UseAction -->
	<property name="Class" value="ExchangeItem"/>
	<property name="Delay" value="1.0"/>
	<property name="Change_item_to" value="bottledRiverWater"/>
	<property name="Do_block_action" value="deplete1"/>
	<property name="Focused_blockname_1" value="water"/>
	<property name="Focused_blockname_2" value="waterMoving"/>
	<property name="Focused_blockname_3" value="waterStaticBucket"/>
	<property name="Focused_blockname_4" value="waterMovingBucket"/>
	<property name="Focused_blockname_5" value="waterSource8"/>
	<property name="Sound_start" value="bucketfill_water"/>
</property>
<property name="Group" value="Resources"/>
</item>
Sounds good. Only complicated for the modder, who would have to create a new (set of) file(s) for every change and addition. And potentially complicated if you want to combine mods. An additional interface to administrate the different files would be necessary.

A simple set of commands seems still the better solution - particularly regarding the settings-menu I mentioned!

 
Yep pretty much. Trying to get @Sphereii to chime in, since he's the most fluent in this area... from what my limited brain can tell, xpath will allow all sort of goodies, and I'm hoping someone makes a windows form app to create them, since they can get a little complicated. *cough*Sphereii*cough*

 
So, master mod = basically a soulless pack of models. Elements, for the talented modder to turn into something great.
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That could not be done with a licensed assets, it is strictly prohibited. The fine print has been posted that bans that style of asset pooling. Even if no one else is redistributing the files.

 
During my break I have been making mods in the Workshop for other games on Steam and a lot use LUA coding language. With that it is much easier to make mods compatible because you can just check for a value/name that is particular to the mod thats not compatible and if your mod finds it you can code the needed changes to make the mods work together. Not sure if anything like that can be done with xml coding though its quite restrictive.

 
Yep pretty much. Trying to get @Sphereii to chime in, since he's the most fluent in this area... from what my limited brain can tell, xpath will allow all sort of goodies, and I'm hoping someone makes a windows form app to create them, since they can get a little complicated. *cough*Sphereii*cough*
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I'd have to actual see how this works, particularly when combining mods, which would be the only reason to use this, right?
Overall, the command-approach seems better, more flexible, easier too, and reasonable even without mod-combination in mind.

- - - Updated - - -

That could not be done with a licensed assets, it is strictly prohibited. The fine print has been posted that bans that style of asset pooling. Even if no one else is redistributing the files.
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That's why I say "basically". I've pointed out several times that I believe a proper mod needs to come with it.
But the Guppycurian approach might allow it, when you only use free assets and assets that are authorized by the creator for the intended use as part of a resource pool for this one modding community.

 
Sketchfab artists have come out and said they don't give a crap if multiple mods use their 1x paid assets, but unity has yet to respond... So a pool of "free to use" is going to be decent sized, since unity has a crap ton of free ones anyway...

 
Sketchfab artists have come out and said they don't give a crap if multiple mods use their 1x paid assets, but unity has yet to respond... So a pool of "free to use" is going to be decent sized, since unity has a crap ton of free ones anyway...
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Well, if unity has a say in this, then whatever unity says would have to count for any mod in the asset store, wouldn't it?
 
So I had a long winded reply written up, but it's potentially too long for this level of discussion. This probably rambles on as well. I'll address Kubikus' example directly:

[Kubikus' Stack Size of emptyJars]

You want to increase the stack size of emptyJars, because it's annoyingly too small for you. You could edit the items.xml file every time the game updates, or you could do the following modlet:

Code: 
       <set xpath="/items/item[@name='emptyJar']/property[@name='Stacknumber']/@value">5000</set>
       <set xpath="/items/item[@name='meatStew']/property[@name='Stacknumber']/@value">50</set>
       <set xpath="/items/item[@name='meatStew']/property[@class='Action1']/property[@name='Delay']/@value">2.0</set>
I also added in two other changes where we can change the stack size of other item (meatstew), and also changed the Delay of eating it. I added them here to show you that a modlet can do many different edits.

Those are fairly straight forward lines doing single value changes. They may look confusing, because the syntax is unfamiliar, but once you use it a bit, you may find it makes a lot of sense, and is very portable.

Let's look at another change that's quite popular:

[blood Moon Trickle Fix by guppycur]

When A16 first dropped, people noticed that the blood moons would be too quiet for the more experience players. After the initial wave of zombies, you'd get a single zombie at any given time, until dawn. Guppycur made a fix, and I created a SDX modlet for it.

Code: 
       <set xpath="/gamestages/spawner[@name='BloodMoonHorde']/*/spawn[4]/@maxAlive">50</set>
It says look for the BloodMoonHorde spawner, and on the 4th wave, change the maxAlive to 50, instead of the default 1. It does this recursively, so for each maxAlive that meets those conditions, gets updated 50.

Nice and clean, and is very unlikely to conflict with any other mods.

If a player wanted a more exciting horde night over vanilla, they can just grab the BloodMoonTrickleFix and drop it in place. No other XML changes need to be done to their mod. If a player is terrified at 50, they can just edit a small XML file to change the 50 to 2, if they'd like, without wading through and updating dozens, possibly hundreds of lines in their XML files, potentially making a mistake with a tag or quote.

These two examples are very small, but I chose them because it laid out the basic idea of xpath. A larger example would have been xyth's JunkItems mod, which adds new item icons, items with description, and adds them to the loot table.

Another more complex example would be the RainUI mod, created by DUST2DEATH, and converted to SDX by me. That mod, using xpath, modifies the UI XML files to overhaul the UI. If DUST2DEATH converts his dozen or so UIs over to xpath, users would be able to pick which UI they wanted to use, and drop it in place.

This is different over the current method where RainUI edits the XUI files directly, and players and modders must over-write their own XML files completely, potentially obliterating other XML edits they may have done previously. Xpath merges its changes.

If you have any other request for examples, please let me know, and I'll post some samples.

All the examples in this post, other than the emptyJar changes, already exists as SDX modlets. They are also only XML changes, with no DLL edits.

 
So I had a long winded reply written up, but it's potentially too long for this level of discussion. This probably rambles on as well. I'll address Kubikus' example directly:
[Kubikus' Stack Size of emptyJars]

You want to increase the stack size of emptyJars, because it's annoyingly too small for you. You could edit the items.xml file every time the game updates, or you could do the following modlet:

Code: 
       <set xpath="/items/item[@name='emptyJar']/property[@name='Stacknumber']/@value">5000</set>
       <set xpath="/items/item[@name='meatStew']/property[@name='Stacknumber']/@value">50</set>
       <set xpath="/items/item[@name='meatStew']/property[@class='Action1']/property[@name='Delay']/@value">2.0</set>
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This would be fantastic. And pretty much exactly what M³ does, just that it is a PHP script.
Something like that, but as part of a complete application (like, you know, M³) would be excellent, particularly if modders would no longer distribute their mods as complete sets of xml-files, but as such commands. It would allow (relatively) easy combination of mods and possibly a settings-section.

 
...but why add another link to the chain...
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Have an example:
I make a mod and I change the stack size for first aid kits. 20 instead of 5. I change nothing else about first aid kits. You make a mod and change the health gain of a first aid kit, 100 instead of 50.

We both provide complete XML-files.

If we had a player who likes both, what would they do? How to combine the two mods? If they know how, good, if not: There is nothing they can do.

But if I provided just a command and you provided just a command, the commands could easily be combined:

changeItemPropertyValue -> firstAidKit / Stacknumber / 20

changeItemPropertyValue -> firstAidKit / Gain_health / 100

That would be good for the end user.

For the modder, this is still great, because you don't have to fiddle with the XML-files. That's what made me create M³. I was simply fed up to have to go through 10 different XML files, scroll up, scroll down, search, and whatnot. And as soon as a new alpha came out, I had to do it all again.

Instead, I write my commands, and that's it. 50 changes on screen. Noice. And when a new alpha comes out, I run M³, and in case there are issues, for example when I replace a string with another, and the string isn't there anymore, I get a note. "That string you want to replace, it's not there anymore". Along with the id of the command, so I can find the problem easily.

That's three good reasons to use a command approach for modding XML-files.

Edit: Here is a 4th good reason. I can simple en- and disable entire mods. I have two, a horde mode and the overhaul. To switch between both, I just have to disable one, enable the other, run M³ and that's it. Literally 3 clicks to change a mod.

And the 5th reason is the settings section. For example do I have a ringworld in my overhaul. I change one number in the settings section, and it becomes a patch world. See the settings I posted.

 
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The modder would only give the ONE LINE that applies, not the entire xml, and xpath will do its thing. This is a non issue.

...not sure if you read Sphereii's entire message, but here is the sum total of my entire blood moon horde fix:

<set xpath="/gamestages/spawner[@name=BloodMoonHorde]/*/spawn[4]/@maxAlive">50</set>

...that's it.

 
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