PC 3d marks, just like zombie HP bar, make game feel fake and arcadish

[SonicSonedit]

In new devstream developers showed that literally everything - including enemies - will have mark not only map/compas, but also will have 3d mark in world. This even includes spear. Why? This makes game look primitive, arcadish. Just like zombie HP bar that they tried to introduce back in A18, I feel 3d marks for everything is overboard. Personal (locked) car and dropped loot - okay, makes sense. But spears, quests, traders, quest objectives, animals, treasures are overboard. And you even want to add 3d mark for junk turret you place? Why?! Please stop!

 

[n2n1]

Casual mobile phones are popular now. Developers naively believe that this is their audience .

 

[SonicSonedit]

Casual mobile phones are popular now. Developers naively believe that this is their audience .

I honestly feel like I'm being treated like this kind of audience now =\

 

[Damocles]

I dont have a problem with marker per se (they make the game less fun for people who like to explore, and more fun for people who are new to the game or are impatient).

But I have a problem with them popping in without asking the player, and not offering an option to turn them off.

The next thing - to make the game more accessible - might be fast travel or skipping the night or loading in premade bases or quicksaves...

 

[MechanicalLens]

deleted

 

[Damocles]

While it is slightly unfortunate that there is no option to turn them off in-game, I can see what they did it that way; at that point, it ends up being a slippery slope. How much power should they give the players in-game? An option to disable spears? Disable animal spawns? Disable treasure maps? Disable traders? It would be a very murky and complicated road from there.

At the end of the day, if you don't like it, too bad, it's in the game. Deal with it or find a different game to play.

End of discussion.

You are mixing together UI elements and gameplay elements here. They are completely different topics.

 

[MechanicalLens]

You are mixing together UI elements and gameplay elements here. They are completely different topics.

Trimmed it down. You happy now?

 

 

[n2n1]

At the end of the day, if you don't like it, too bad, it's in the game. Deal with it or find a different game to play.

Yes, this can happen, because now there are a lot of simple games that are more interesting. And 7dtd will then be out of business.

 

[Darthjake]

You can turn off air drop tracking, I would not think it would be too hard for them to make a switch to turn off the other 3D tracking as well.  I for one, like the idea, because I hate losing my level whatever steel spear that I found with the mods I put in it because it got lost in the grass and I don't have time to search for it due to wolves/dogs/zombies/whatever.

 

[MechanicalLens]

You can turn off air drop tracking, I would not think it would be too hard for them to make a switch to turn off the other 3D tracking as well.  I for one, like the idea, because I hate losing my level whatever steel spear that I found with the mods I put in it because it got lost in the grass and I don't have time to search for it due to wolves/dogs/zombies/whatever.

Especially when you toss it out a window during a T5 quest and you have to remember to find it later. *Grumbles silently...*

 

[n2n1]

I dont have a problem with marker per se (they make the game less fun for people who like to explore, and more fun for people who are new to the game or are impatient).

But I have a problem with them popping in without asking the player, and not offering an option to turn them off.

The next thing - to make the game more accessible - might be fast travel or skipping the night or loading in premade bases or quicksaves...

I fully agree, but there is no possibility to configure all the settings via optiоns ... so the slogan MM "mod it" actually is correct

 

[Kraxin]

In the wednesday stream, the new markers in world was toggled off, and I dont remember seeing health bars when they were spawning the new zombie looks in.

With that said, I been playing this game 7 years and everything is like clockwork for vets, but for new people, especially the 3 new friends I about to get game for, they'll need all this and more. Some don't have any game experience and want to play this with me. They making a game that they want to be approachable by anyone while still pushing the boundaries. I think they'll accomplish this. Not everyone has been playing this game as long as us.

 

[Damocles]

In the wednesday stream, the new markers in world was toggled off, and I dont remember seeing health bars when they were spawning the new zombie looks in.

With that said, I been playing this game 7 years and everything is like clockwork for vets, but for new people, especially the 3 new friends I about to get game for, they'll need all this and more. Some don't have any game experience and want to play this with me. They making a game that they want to be approachable by anyone while still pushing the boundaries. I think they'll accomplish this. Not everyone has been playing this game as long as us.

The game is missing a proper tutorial scenario.

There are these starter quest-steps, which are a chore for experienced players to always repeat (used to be even more steps required), but its not nearly enough teaching material for new players.

There should be an extended tutorial setup for Navezgane or some other premade tutorial map, that explains the game step by step to new players.

Like, go there, fix this part of a base, make a storage, use the workstation at the trader, raid this POI, find this mineable deposit, choose what skills to spec into. Also with some tuned down zombie spawn, and keeping it locked to the easiest zombie versions.

Best on a very tiny sandbox map, just to learn the mechanics, without wandering off too much.

Thats mainly for singleplayer. Of course in a co-op multiplayer, other players can teach the game on the go.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

At the end of the day, if you don't like it, too bad, it's in the game. Deal with it or find a different game to play.

"Don't give feedback on an alpha game where the devs literally change base mechanics every 2 alphas"
What exactly do you think an early access is for? Yes it is their game, but we are the customer. They are already bad enough with claims like "forum users are only a small minority", but to say "play it or shut up" is bonkers to me.

 

[MechanicalLens]

"Don't give feedback on an alpha game where the devs literally change base mechanics every 2 alphas"
What exactly do you think an early access is for? Yes it is their game, but we are the customer. They are already bad enough with claims like "forum users are only a small minority", but to say "play it or shut up" is bonkers to me.

I realize I had worded that wrong. Basically what I meant was, "If it's going to be optional, then there's no reason to complain since you could just toggle it off. If it's not optional, then... Well, if they're not going to remove it, then we'll just have to deal with it I suppose."

And yes, forum users are a small minority. That's not an accusation, just a statistic.

 

[n2n1]

The game is missing a proper tutorial scenario.

There are these starter quest-steps, which are a chore for experienced players to always repeat (used to be even more steps required), but its not nearly enough teaching material for new players.

There should be an extended tutorial setup for Navezgane or some other premade tutorial map, that explains the game step by step to new players.

Like, go there, fix this part of a base, make a storage, use the workstation at the trader, raid this POI, find this mineable deposit, choose what skills to spec into. Also with some tuned down zombie spawn, and keeping it locked to the easiest zombie versions.

Best on a very tiny sandbox map, just to learn the mechanics, without wandering off too much.

Thats mainly for singleplayer. Of course in a co-op multiplayer, other players can teach the game on the go.

I agree that it is necessary to improve the initial tutorial and not simplify the game itself. Or the gameplay itself should be intuitive.

All should be simple in simple games, in deep ones-nothing should be easy - learning the features is already a game process.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

I don´t mind that there are markers. But they are way too dominant on the screen.  Just make them a lot more decent and it´s fine. An option to turn them off and play with the marker in the compass only would be very nice tough. 

Tbh the way the fetch quests work with this markers, they could just not hide them at all and place them in the middle of a room. Would exactly do the same for MM. Can´t believe we have flashing neon signs that shine trough walls because he can´t find them within a few seconds....

 

[Sawth77]

I agree that it is necessary to improve the initial tutorial and not simplify the game itself. Or the gameplay itself should be intuitive.

All should be simple in simple games, in deep ones-nothing should be easy - learning the features is already a game process.

I completely agree.

A decent setup would be letting players run through a basic tutorial about crafting, combat, and other mechanics with the end result being the "Duke of Navazgane" booting the player out of their enclave (which would give you a reason for having that note in your inventory at the start of the current game).

 

[Viktoriusiii]

I realize I had worded that wrong. Basically what I meant was, "If it's going to be optional, then there's no reason to complain since you could just toggle it off. If it's not optional, then... Well, if they're not going to remove it, then we'll just have to deal with it I suppose."

And yes, forum users are a small minority. That's not an accusation, just a statistic.

Well... depends, doesnt it? It does make a big difference if it is the standart or if you can turn it on. Since most (unodded) servers are only listed under standart setting (maybe that has changed tho, haven't played in multiplayer for nearly 3 alphas...) But nevertheless it does make a difference. If a feature is turned on/off as the standart setting, new players will take this as the base line and will most likely not go back. That also means that they possibly lose out on content. I remember how hyped I was every time an airdrop came, because if I didn't get there NOW, it was gone and I had to search for hours (but because the loot was good, it was worth it, unlike now) and now, since I have the comfort option, I don't turn off airdrop markers, even though the game loses a tiny bit of flair because I'm lazy.
I am not arguing for either. I am just showing that giving feedback on a feature, no matter if optional or not, is not a bad idea.

And obviously they are. They are the ones invested in the product. They are the ones recommending the game. They are the ones that actually give you the feedback.
So if forum users tell you "XY is op" then you don't assume that it is THEM who are the problem. Yes the forum users are also more active/experienced players, and it does influence it somewhat. But if I hear that "feature 'xy' was removed because new players are dumb" I get mad...
It's like you write a review for a hairdryer that blew up in your face but you survived. 0 stars. And the dev tells you "well only a handfull of ppl reported this, so overall its fine" when in reality, they were killed by that explosion.
Just because they are silent, doesn't mean they are on your side. Most likely it means that they don't care enough about the game because they don't think it is special. Doesn't mean they like everything. ARGH sorry it drives me crazy that people think this way... and even more gamedevs who should know better, since it is their livelyhood!

 

[Lemmers]

A decent setup would be letting players run through a basic tutorial about crafting, combat, and other mechanics with the end result being the "Duke of Navazgane" booting the player out of their enclave (which would give you a reason for having that note in your inventory at the start of the current game).

Tier 1 quests from the trader could include gameplay tutorials disguised as missions. Like for example, the trader says they are running low on lead and asks you to bring back X amount. The quest gives you the objective of "Find a lead boulder on the surface" and once you pickaxe one, "Mine under the boulder to extract lead ore from the vein." Or the trader has a broken roof and asks you to use a specific shape from the shape menu to replace and reinforce it, etc. 

The best tutorials are invisible and feel like natural gameplay even though you are being taught specific lessons. The worst tutorials are text based journal entries that players never open.