PC 300th level attempt, No Guns, No Deaths, no Cheats.

Have you ever played without Guns?


  • Total voters
    29
Dead is dead: Yes but only sometimes

Level 300 legit: I’ve never played a single game that long. I like taking my time and enjoy the journey of progressing a lot more than playing with max gear and skills. So I never have the endurance to play to level 300.  I enjoy trying mods but I also enjoy the vanilla game. 
 

As for whether force field blocks count as a cheat, I think it’s a grey area. If you are desiring to challenge yourself then I would think you’d prefer not to use tactics that take advantage of AI deficiencies as part of your challenge. Just think how much better your series would sound saying “Level 300 without mods, cheats, or AI force fields”.  Whether it’s the same as wall or ditch is immaterial. You’re using your knowledge of game weaknesses to make things easier. That’s fine if that’s what you want but it might be fun to try base defense without using anything that is a force field or is like a force field. Maybe your next challenge run?

Guns: I mostly use melee and bows and save guns for horde night. I’ve never done a playthrough without ever using guns. That would be challenging— way more challenging than giving up force fields in my opinion. 
 

 
Ok, enough with the folks saying Force Fields IS cheating or some such nonsense.

The real problem is that:

The game designers have a bad idea, "the zombies must be allowed to come at the player from all points of the compass", and so they design the AI to spawn them in such a fashion.  the result?  If an intelligent player builds a base that allows the zombies to walk in the front door, but no other way in, the zombies will just try to beat their way through the players walls, and make such a path. 

My outer walls stop the zombies.  

Period. 

Full stop.

When I build my defensive position, I'm going to leave the enemy just one way to attack me, and I'll throw in every kind of way to slow them down, and make them pay the price of getting to me.  Because I want to fight/kill all the zombies, 'up close and personal' as it were, and building a big base with just one way in causes the badly designed AI spawning to break down is not my fault. 

I had a Horde Night base in my last game.  No surprise there.  I initially left the zombies 4 ways into the inner base (Just like now.).  Then I heard good things about "Force Fields", and experimented with the, by surrounding my entire base with a 5 block deep, 3 block thick force field, outside the walls of my base.  I then also walled of 3 of the 4 ways into the base, with walls 3 blocks thick by 5 blocks high.  Keep in mind, those new walls were the weakest walls my base had.

The result?

Horde Night broke.

Why?

Because the zombies couldn't attack from all directions of the compass, and if they had to go all the way around the base (because they cannot just be satisfied with spawning in one direction), then they would happily spend all night trying to break through my outer walls, with only very small numbers actually spawning on the correct side of my base (the one I left open), and thus, and thus Horde Night was ruined.  

The problem isn't one of the player building a base with just one approach, it is one of pathing, and need the zombies to just spawn in one direction if the player properly builds their base.  The Horde nights where I would end up with jut 2-3 zombies making it into my base, and the rest were just AWOL.  I had to go outside the outer walls of my base, and lo and behold, the the rest of them were, uselessly beating on the outer walls (the closest thing they achieved to a breakthrough was a two block high, one block deep hole, with a one block high, one block deep start on the second row of blocks). 

The problem?

Remember the 3 block thick, five block high walls, the weak points, that I built over 3 of the four initial openings, between the building of my bases 4 buildings?  Those were not being especially targeted, as the fastest way into my inner base, no, they were just trundling up to any building and trying to achieve a 'breakthrough' where ever the spawning strategy initially put them.  The problem, all 4 of my buildings were built on solid foundation of cobblestone 4 block high, and you guessed it, none of these four buildings were a measly 4 blocks thick, but rather 13 blocks wide, and 30+ blocks long.  Other than the mineshaft down to bedrock, all of my base sat on top of these foundations!

There is no way the zombies should be trying to spawn all around my base, they need to have their scouts, as well as the "Spies in the sky", tell them where they can most easily enter the player base, and just spawn it that direction.

Keep in mind, Horde Nights prior to base completion, are not going to be locked out in such a fashion/degree, but by later Horde nights, the zombies should have learned where there is a way in, and where there is not.

So the problem is one of pathing, not base design.  A small base has no problem, as the pathing is easy for the zombies to reach "the way in", but when you build a bigger/better base, they need to have a way in, and just spawn in that one direction.  Give me an AI that spawns in that ONE direction, and all is good.  All the zombies will meet me, and then meet their maker shortly thereafter, and then their replacements will begin this process all over again.  Do that, and we have a good game, and I won't continue using Force Fields, do it NOT, and just put up with the Force Fields.

Now, if anyone want to critique my actual base design/layout, that is different.  Look at what I have build, realise what I have done to accommodate an AI that is built around they idea of "all around is sound" as a spawning strategy, instead of building an AI, that uses fog of war, and tries to scout out where a players base can most easily be entered, and just concentrate all spawns in that direction. Presto, all problems solved, and players can design bigger bases without Horde Night getting broken, because the zombies won't spawn in a direction that they cannot path to the inner base, so they just instead spawn all over the place, and spend the rest of horde night beating on the outer walls, until I leave my base, come find them, and kill them.

All that being said, that was last games experience, this new game, I am building a much smaller Horde Night base, where the zombies bad AI spawning system allows them to spawn in any direction, and still path to the inner base, but denying them an unneeded/unwanted capacity to attack me from behind.

Now, anyone want to continue discussing my bases construction/layout?  

I have to admit, I'm not only willing to share (with pic/videos/grid plans), but am actually eager to do so.

 
The real problem is that:
You can justify it all you want. But it all comes down to the same thing. You have come to understand an easy way to undermine the AI pathing and you’re using it. 
 

That’s fine. It’s available to be used. It just seems weird for someone going out of their way to be challenged like not using guns at all to take the easy way out in this regard. 
 

You don’t need to convince anyone that there is a weakness with the AI pathing. That’s obvious. It’s why force fields work. But don’t act like you’re at the mercy of the game’s problem and must use such a meta-gaming solution. There’s plenty of proof that force fields aren’t necessary. They just make horde night….easier. 
 

If force fields make the game fun for you then go for it. Force fields would kill the fun for me but then again so would ignoring guns completely for 300 levels. To each their own. 
 

As an aside, the reason zombies spawn in from all directions is that it simulates them coming from every direction of the surrounding area. They aren’t supposed to be a single herd moving from a single location.  Maybe that would be a cool setting to be able to toggle horde night zombies approaching from only one direction or from everywhere. 
 

At any rate, if you are looking for ideas for a future challenge series you might consider trying a base with a footprint smaller than 12x12 and no force fields.
 

You can use guns for that one. 😉

 
You can use guns for that one.
It's a lot of text, but he said he has vision and dexterity issues preventing the use of guns. "Even if my eyesight wasn't an issue, my fingers don't work like they used to before the first stroke, so guns will not be possible for me." .. I don't think a permission is going to do much. Glad he's found a way to make the game playable thou :)

 
I don't have a problem with zombies spawning in all directions.

I have a problem with them doing that, and then having a problem pathing to the one opening in my base.

That right there, is the whole of the problem, and this thread is about my trying to work within the pathing problems the zombies have.

If the zombies could figure out how to path (properly) to my bases entrance, from any direction in which they spawned, then I could dispense with the force fields entirely, and just have solid walls all the way around, except for the one way in.  Unfortunately, when faced with this situation in my last game, they just ignored the force fields (because they couldn't path that far around my base), and then just spent the rest of Horde Night beating uselessly against my outer walls.

The end story is that, yes it is a pathing problem, and this is my way to try and work around that.  I've tried to make it possible to still let them spawn in all directions, but to prevent them from back attacks or surprise flanking attacks.  No one trained in building a fortified fighting position is going to let the enemies ju pick and choose where to approach from, they are going to use what they know, and restrict the enemy to a single avenue of approach. 

I had such training while serving in the 101st Airborne Infantry Division.

In game, spawning all around the compass only works if the zombies can then path from where they spawned, to the side of the base that is open.  My last games base was to large, and it's force fields were ignored, so this new game, I'm trying to prevent back attacks, by making the zombies path around my (much smaller) force fields, which works for small scale zombie waves, but not for Screamer Spawns, they just mainly try and follow the traffic laws and path around the force fields, but there are so many, that some ignore the Force Fields, so I get a mixed bag of guys coming in as intended, and some getting to get by the FF.

Keep in mind my past.  I have actual job experience in building fortified fighting positions, as well as a focus on such in an Urban warfare environment.

Really folks, please let's start looking at my base, and continue from there.

 
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It's a lot of text, but he said he has vision and dexterity issues preventing the use of guns. "Even if my eyesight wasn't an issue, my fingers don't work like they used to before the first stroke, so guns will not be possible for me." .. I don't think a permission is going to do much. Glad he's found a way to make the game playable thou :)


I missed that and so apologize @WarMongerian. I thought you were simply doing it for the challenge. As I said, you should play however you find the game fun and if that includes force fields then so be it. As I said, force fields do make the horde night easier and if you are using them as an accommodation for a disability then it's great that they make the game possible for you to play.

Thanks for the assist Flu.

I don't have a problem with zombies spawning in all directions.

I have a problem with them doing that, and then having a problem pathing to the one opening in my base.

That right there, is the whole of the problem, and this thread is about my trying to work within the pathing problems the zombies have.

If the zombies could figure out how to path (properly) to my bases entrance, from any direction, the I could dispense with the force fields entirely, and just have solid walls all the way around, except for the one way in.

The end story is that, yes it is a pathing problem, and this is my way to try and work around that.

Keep in mind my past.  I have actual job experience in building fortified fighting positions, as well as a focus on such in an Urban warfare environment.


Building a base with a smaller footprint...maybe 10x10 or smaller is another solution without needing forcefields. With a smaller base most will have pathways long enough to "see" your opening from any point around the perimeter of your base. I just bring this up in case TFP ever decides to improve the AI so that forcefields no longer work.  There is another way.

 
Yeah, it's not as if I have been playing for a year, and only getting by using FF.  I just heard about them my last game, went all in, and then got burned by the problems of limited/short range pathing for the zombies.

Did anyone look at the video up-thread, where I did a very quick little look see of my current base?

I build a Horde Night base, that consists of 4 buildings, each sits on a foundation 7 blocks high, and then build my defenses on top of this.  Each building can only be accessed by a ladder, controlled by an Iron Hatch.  The procedure is to attrition them at the ladder head, by bow or shovel/machete.  When (not if) things get to hot, I jump down from the bird box/archer platform, and just run over to the next building, and the whole defense begins again.  Rinse and repeat as needed, and interspersed with some good 'ole hand to hand (melee) combat down on the ground, and presto, an enjoyable Horde Night!

By not trying to actually defend any one building, I limit the damage each building takes, and as the zombies have different speeds, the faster ones reach me first, without the support of the slower ones, and this allows for me to attrition them some more.

I try to fight smarter, not harder.  Anyone want to look at what I build?

 
Anyone want to look at what I build?
I gave it a look, looks decent. Fun to see someone else use the shoot thru -frame shape as an actual block, seems most 'tubers stopped ever placing them when the block system changed :)

It's "a few towers" -design, so, not that much to say; simple enough, if it works, it works :)

Those force fields look quite "open", leaving plenty of short routes around them, I would prolly try to restrict the paths between towers into a longer loop if I was to employ those. And where there's a choke point between them, I would drop a few ele fences to slow things down further - of course that might cluster them up more, and I'd be taking head shots at the stunned zeds there, so, whatever works.

 
@WarMongerian

If I may, I'd like to ask a few questions?

I think it is from reading but I am not quite sure,  Is
your gameplay on PC or console?

Do you use keyboard and mouse, or controller?

What is the longest you can play in a single session without
excess discomfort?

 
@WarMongerian

If I may, I'd like to ask a few questions?

I think it is from reading but I am not quite sure,  Is
your gameplay on PC or console?

Do you use keyboard and mouse, or controller?

What is the longest you can play in a single session without
excess discomfort?
Yes, you may, and I thank you.

PC + Mouse Keyboard.

That depends.  My eyes are the biggest problem, and yes, I have even resorted to wearing sunglasses to play a bit longer.  My fingers are always a bit stiff and numb, wth the occasional uncontrolled twitch tossed in for good measure.  After my first stroke hit while I was sleeping, I woke to a mouth/right side of my face being paralyzed (dead brain cells), and my speech was impaired, which I didn't realise until I keep misdialing 911, because I could no longer just make my fingers hit the single keys I previously didn't have to focus on in order to hit the right ones, and not other adjoining keys.  About the third time I misdialed, I finally got through to 911, and got an ambulance rid to the hospital.  My speech improved, as my brain learned to speak again using a different set of cells, cause the old speech controlling cells were toast.

My handwriting skills have not returned to normal, as I don't really do any kind of writing these days, so I just type.  My typing has improved, to the point I can (mostly) make sense, but the often misspelled words in my posts are only sometime do toy spelling, and often due to me hitting the wrong keys, or not quite hitting a key hard enough, and thus an intended word might be missing a letter or two.

Both the second and third strokes also impacted my speech centers of my brain, and so my speech was once again slurred and impaired, but has recovered once again, mainly because I talk every day, and my brain has learned to use still functional cells and thus not have to permanently loose the power of speech.

Anyway, yes I have my troubles, but the game must go on!  The Cops spitting in my eyes, and making me all but blind is not fun nor entertaining, but until an option is made for players to opt out of non-melee attacks, I'm just stuck with it.  You may have noticed, I plant Oak trees on top of my building?  I do that because when there is a nice sunny day in game, the brightness is to much for me, but the Oak trees give me shade, and thus give my eyes a break

As far as how long I can play, it depends.  Some days I can play for hours and hours, but other days, I wake up and my eyes hurt almost immediately, and so I have to wear sunglasses right away.  Those days I may not get to play at all, but such days are rare.

 
Here are a few things that you may want to look into, they may help.

On the pc, type magnify, bring up the screen magnifier to enlarge the typing,
as well as the enlarging the fonts, I know that you more than likely already
do something similar to this, But I offer the thought without assumptions.

For the pc, It might be helpful to try a controller, Like the turtle beach Recon
controller. The reason I mention it is because, first it allows a more comfortable
seating and holding position, second and this might sound odd at first but, a set of

fingerless driving gloves with adjustable velcro straps on the side can help holding it,

like a gauntlet, which allows less kinetic pressure or grip needed to hold it.

The keys are fully programmable, example; repeat push emulation from a single push, basically
any macro. The buttons require less impact pressure to engage. The thumb has an adjustable
dead zone to adjust for your range of  movement. Gripping a mouse under the conditions you

described are harsh, and takes consistent pressure to grip and lift  and press.

The alternate setup for the controller is the same fingerless gloves, But with the adhesive
backed velcro pads, so literally the only extra pressure needed is the the button press.

The controller size is ergonomic enough, that you can press the fire buttons mid, rear, or
fingertip joint. mid and rear use a lot less pressure than the fingertip, and have a less
stressful angle.

If you prefer, to use the keyboard and mouse, then the adhesive velcro pads added to mouse and glove
could relieve some of the stress and pressure needed to constantly pickup and move the mouse on
the pad.

The program, Joytokey, is a keyboard emulator. It is programmable, and has auto repeat with
a timed delay. It does not have lag, as far as I've seen, I use it when I play the versions, that didn't have

full controller support. Also used it recently to replay Sniper Elite 1. That is strictly keyboard an mouse.

To assist typing, There is an older program Dragon Naturally speaking, and plenty more have come out
since then.

These are some of the tools I  know of that may help.  I hope at least one of them does.

For the sunny days you can if you choose to try it.

Type                      spectrum stormy

and                       weather fog 0

then                      weather rain 0

last                       weather clouds 60  or .6 depending on if you edited your biomes.xml

These four in combination allow it to be light enough to see, but without the whitelight

effect that is on your screen.

 
For the sunny days you can if you choose to try it.

Type                      spectrum stormy

and                       weather fog 0

then                      weather rain 0

last                       weather clouds 60  or .6 depending on if you edited your biomes.xml

These four in combination allow it to be light enough to see, but without the whitelight

effect that is on your screen.
where would I type this?

 
where would I type this?
In the console.

You don't have to go to dev mode to do it.

Once the game is has started up,

hit esc, to pause the gameplay,

then hit f1 to open the console

then type

If you just type weather a list of the parameters that are running will show

just don't type weather snowfall and a percentage

it's kind of glitchy on my pc. If I start snowfall, then stop it, everywhere I walk for the rest of the game

sounds like walking on snow. I have to restart to reset footstep sounds.

 
In the console.

You don't have to go to dev mode to do it.

Once the game is has started up,

hit esc, to pause the gameplay,

then hit f1 to open the console

then type

If you just type weather a list of the parameters that are running will show

just don't type weather snowfall and a percentage

it's kind of glitchy on my pc. If I start snowfall, then stop it, everywhere I walk for the rest of the game

sounds like walking on snow. I have to restart to reset footstep sounds.
Like this?

weather 2.jpg

like that.png

 
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Yup, that's the place

Just typing              weather by itself and hitting enter shows whats going on

As you get accustomed to it you can adjust your fog if you need to tone down the white

coloring if your eyes are sensitive to it.

Weather fog set in decimal      example     weather fog .23

also for fog color tints              example     weather fogcolor .15 .16 .17       don't put big or whole numbers in

or it is too drastic.  like if you wanted a red tint start off at .10 0 0,   255 and it will whiteout the screen.

Either way this should help if you need to make subtle adjustments to tint and intensity.

 
Yup, that's the place

Just typing              weather by itself and hitting enter shows whats going on

As you get accustomed to it you can adjust your fog if you need to tone down the white

coloring if your eyes are sensitive to it.

Weather fog set in decimal      example     weather fog .23

also for fog color tints              example     weather fogcolor .15 .16 .17       don't put big or whole numbers in

or it is too drastic.  like if you wanted a red tint start off at .10 0 0,   255 and it will whiteout the screen.

Either way this should help if you need to make subtle adjustments to tint and intensity.
Can I get rid of the hated fog entirely?  Fog just seems to degrade my already limited ability to see, and I don't need that.  I only once had my little digital dude drink a beer, not knowing what it did.  Needless to say, that was my last beer.  :)

Thank you for the help in this, I appreciate it.

 
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Can I get rid of the hated fog entirely?  Fog just seems to degrade my already limited ability to see, and I don't need that.  I only once had my little digital dude drink a beer, not knowing what it did.  Needless to say, that was my last beer.  :)

Thank you for the help in this, I appreciate it.
Beer...
Beer never change...

 
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