What i mean by that is that when I open my game menu looking for defense solutions I am presented with traps and defensive structures to build, so I would argue that these are the games intended tactics, however in effect they are largely ineffective and the primary method of defending a base is to take advantage of the AI travel path, such as leading them along an endless loop. I don't want to remove the latter because there are some players who like it, but I think it's fair to say that it is not really an intended style of play.
About the wolves, they killed me on my first game but after that I was aware of them so I was able to turn them into meat instead of the other way around. They don't know where you are when they spawn
I believe that to be true. Atleast for a few seconds for sure. I was running back to base one day really early in game, but forget D#. The pack spawned like 50m in front, not sure, but effing close, I could not avoid them fast enough, but they ran past me
So that initial wolf back I am referring to definitely knows your location. Ive been underground hiding in a dark basement doing nothing and have had them spawn in and run straight into the building, aggroing on the blocks in their way. I have had instances when they have ran past me but only if im outside and away from anything they can destroy, so yes to some extent they dont know your EXACT location, but the idea that entitys will spawn pre aggroed and put on a pre-determined path to your location in such a obvious manner is annoying to me. Is it manageable? Yes, but I think that if the developers insist on spawning threats like that near the player then they should spawn like the zombies and not be aggroed from the beginning.
'd suggest turning ai block damage down if you want to avoid tower defence, bunker-style bases. In addition, or instead, you could turn off bloodmoon hordes and try a larger wandering horde mod, or something like Khaine's
Wandering Horde Frequency mod, which is configurable. Wandering hordes don't specifically target the player, they wander near by, so if you're not paying attention you could still get a nasty surprise but the choice is yours whether you engage, assuming you notice them before they notice you
This is realistically the perfect solution to my problem. I have always been hesitant on adjusting too many settings (I tend to leave everything default except for horde size to max, because giant hordes are fun!), because I've felt like the devs have designed their default settings to be the optimal balance between challenge and fun but I no longer think that this is the case. I do enjoy challenging horde nights and i want to still have my bases breached, with the threat of them being destroyed, but on the default settings the ai is just too efficient and tends to bypass my defenses by the first 2-3 hours, unless i cheese. Thanks for convincing me, to finally take that leap and start adjusting settings. Unfortunately, this probably means i won't be able to discuss balance issues in the future, but then again maybe thats why nobody else seems too concerned about it,
1. Day has nothing to do with wandering horde spawns. it's all related to gamestage.
2. Yes they do know where you are BUT their path is NOT directly to you, they run on a tangent to you. Quite often they will pass you by entirely without seeing you to aggro. They then reach the end of their pathing and disband into normal biome zombies wandering about.
1. I don't think this is true. The wolves could be related to gamestage, but i have noticed that after every horde night the next special zed is spawned, On day 8 a screamer spawns outside my base. On day 15 a spider spawns, on day 22 a cop spawns...now it could be total coincidence with my game stage and the actual day, but I believe that each one of these zombies spawn near the player after each horde night in that same order, its's a way notify the player that these threats will now start to spawn in. It's an introduction of sorts.
2. Honestly that part is irrelavent though, the primary concern is that they know your location and it dosen't matter if I am crouched in the dark being sneaky, they still spawn in as angry zeds and will start attacking your base if you are near it. I've learned to go out after every horde night now, to prevent these spawns from getting near my base, but this is crossing the line into exploitive territory for me.
Interesting post, and I will slightly agree with one point, there does seem to be a feeling that Players are being a bit nudged to adapt a playstyle that takes certain directions. Supplies in loot for some items have become so limited that it does "feel" as if players are being shoved toward taking many more 'Traders Missions" to make any headway. I certainly feel pushed to go into the Wastelands at a much earlier stage than I used to start visiting it in previous Alphas. As for the wolves issue, I notice certain patterns in most of My playthroughs, right now I notice that as soon as the timer hits 22:00 hours I can practically see the wild animal population spawning in as I putt-putt along a road on minibike heading back to My base. I also have it almost timed about which day I will go outside at 4:00 am and see Buddy Bear sauntering up and down the street very near to My Base. The 'rot'-weilers that show up in packs of 4 or 5 are usually My ..."look out for trouble" item, as they do show up in My game around every 4th day or so. So, its not necessarily a bad thing, as one that I find more of a pattern, and I just suppose that I don't expect everything within the game to be totally random. Some elements are added just to give some extra action I suppose. I do hope that you find your happy medium in zomb activity though.
You said it best, and this is what I have been looking for. Nobody seems to be discussing this and I was starting to believe that the game was just picking on me lol. Thats my main problem with it. It's not that they are un-manageable (although 4-5 feral dogs on day 4 is a bit much), but that the it feels like the game is forcing the player into certain fights, just because it wants to. I think that a happy medium could be to remove the aggro state when they spawn in, but honestly I just dont like things spawning right next to me for a fight, especially when im just out chopping wood or something. I will be tweaking my settings in the future, I'm just happy that someone else has actually observed the spawning patterns too.
I was under the impression that the wolf pack was just one version of a "wandering horde" out of a few. A bunch of vultures and a dog pack being options, in addition to a Quality Street assortment of stock zombies as well. My most recent start had a Dire Wolf showing up on my elevated "safe" place during night one (it maneuvered around a horizontal elevated open door, my bad). For me, it was not a welcome surprise and a bit over the top for night one. However, its all just part of the game and it doesn't happen often enough to be noteworthy. YMMV
Those random hordes you mention are welcome additions to the game for me, but what i am discussing is not one of those. Those hordes spawn near the player on a set path and can be avoided, fought or whatever. The wolf pack I am talking about will always show up, around the same time in every single playthrough and their sole objective is to hunt and kill the player, wherever you are. The other weird thing about these threats is that they disappear after they kill you, unlike other wandering hordes that stay or move on, which even adds to the idea that the game just likes to bully the player at times.
I am a noob at Tower Defense but obviously a player only has so much DPM. A players very limited choice on how to manage DPM vs Zombie balance to ensure their DPM is enough at any given point during the horde; is through, block mass, path timing, passive and active traps, increasing DPM, or some combination of all of them
Yes, you would think that DPM is the solution...or block mass, or path timing etc...but they are not. In the default settings, the timespan for 7 days is not enough for the player to build enough defenses, or block mass to stop hold back the horde and manage their food, water and resources at the same time. The only viable solution you mentioned is path timing, which is what the majority of successful bases do now. They don't try to fight or hold back a horde anymore, but instead they just lead the zombies through a circuit until the morning comes. There are exceptions to this rule...some players build super high and just let the zombies smack at the bottom of their base the whole night and others will drive around in vehicles to prevent damage to their base. However the strategy still comes down to either avoiding the horde, or manipulating it. The average player who wants to build a spiked up, electric death fort will find their hard work quickly torn asunder, unless they manipulate the ai into one single track path.
Meh, I see it differently. It's all about managing zombie AI vs a players DPM. I do not think that there is any such thing as a "legit" horde base. They all exploit the zombie AI through one or a combination of the above limited choices.
Well I really enjoy this game because it allows me to live out my own scenarios for how I personally would survive the zombie apocalypse. You know that age old question you ask friends in real life? The whole "Where would you go during the zombie apocalypse, what weapon would you use, etc...this game allows me to live out those fantasy's...or at least it use to. Legit is probably the wrong choice of words here, but here is an example of a base i had tried to build for awhile:
I built a large farmhouse that was walled off, a spike trench surrounding it and a draw bridge. The house itself was mostly decorative with some nicely placed turrets for a bit of fire support, but the farmhouse had a bunker that I expanded and this is where the real killing and defense took place. The idea was pretty simple and straightforward, i would man the walls outside of the house for a bit and snipe high priority zeds as they make their way across the spike trench. As they breached the walls I would fall back to the farmhouse and take out a few more with the turrets, until they breached the building. Then I would fall back to the bunker and wait for the zeds to come and make a last stand. It sounds great on paper and the base felt like it fit the lore and theme of the world around me.
In previous versions It actually worked somewhat, but now the zeds just seem to be way too efficient. They now know the weakest point of your base and as soon as that part gets breached the others will all pile in through that one opening. They will run around the vault door you just fell back to and instead tunnel into your bunker from above, if it's an easier breach point. Or they will find some crazy alternative path to your base, such as scaling a rock and jumping over your walls. This has forced players to focus less on building a strong base and to focus more on predicting the path they will take. The end result are bases that either leave a specific area very open, to lead the zombies into the breach, or to create a base that endlessly leads them around until morning. On default settings it is no longer viable to simply build a strong bunker without specific breach points and I think that is a problem.
