PC 10 years in development and it is still just a skeleton of a game.

Personally, I think they could get rid of the loot room and just have that stuff scattered around the POI so that those who fully explore get everything. The true "loot room" is the quest reward when you return to the trader. Why do we need the loot room treasure AND the trader reward treasure anyway? That combo usually leads to the player getting well beyond the difficulty curve of the game anyway.

If the containers are scattered around, those spawn points CAN be easily randomized so there isn't just two or three possibilities. I know the loot rooms were originally conceived as the treasure room for a dungeon but there's really no need. The trader reward is plenty especially if there is a nice crate of goodies still present in the POI but just in a random location.
I had a very similar thought; loot containers scattered around with randomized "better loot" instead of the "end loot".  Obviously, there is wiggle room for discussion.

But I have to disagree with equating and linking the "loot room" treasure to a "trader quest reward".  It is a major restriction with an obvious downside.  Not all players do quests and they enjoy it that way.  I for one prefer no loot respawn and no trader quest runs.

 
I had a very similar thought; loot containers scattered around with randomized "better loot" instead of the "end loot".  Obviously, there is wiggle room for discussion.

But I have to disagree with equating and linking the "loot room" treasure to a "trader quest reward".  It is a major restriction with an obvious downside.  Not all players do quests and they enjoy it that way.  I for one prefer no loot respawn and no trader quest runs.


If you ignore parts of the game it is your task to adapt the rest to be balanced again, just saying.

And for A20 I would even say that removing the loot rooms would balance the game much much better for experienced players, they would not need to decrease the loot abundance setting anymore.

 
If you ignore parts of the game it is your task to adapt the rest to be balanced again, just saying.
Sure, I don't disagree with that stance in principle.  Although, I may argue that only applies based on an unstated assumption the current game mechanic is balanced. 

I was specifically responding to Roland's theory crafting of linking "end loot" to "trader quest rewards" and the imbalance that would introduce in the context of the discussion around end loot placement and alternatives via randomization.  A comment which I believe is still valid.

 
Sure, I don't disagree with that stance in principle.  Although, I may argue that only applies based on an unstated assumption the current game mechanic is balanced. 

I was specifically responding to Roland's theory crafting of linking "end loot" to "trader quest rewards" and the imbalance that would introduce in the context of the discussion around end loot placement and alternatives via randomization.  A comment which I believe is still valid.


But the normal player WILL take quests and therefore get the quest reward and it has nearly the same effect as end loot. Roland was talking about the current situation (using present tense all through), not something introduced by any changes and he seems to say that currently end loot and trader rewards fill the same niche (they do almost as not all quests are clear quests). So not sure what you are saying here.

 
Sure, I don't disagree with that stance in principle.  Although, I may argue that only applies based on an unstated assumption the current game mechanic is balanced. 

I was specifically responding to Roland's theory crafting of linking "end loot" to "trader quest rewards" and the imbalance that would introduce in the context of the discussion around end loot placement and alternatives via randomization.  A comment which I believe is still valid.


All I was saying is that if the treasure room was removed and the only way to get the end dungeon reward was to visit the trader once the quest was over that would solve the problem of "loot on the roof". I'm not against distributing the existing treasure room loot around the poi for folks who don't do quests so they get good stuff without having to quest but I also think that the trader quest reward is plenty reward for doing the quest and combining the end treasure room loot with the trader rewards is usually pretty OP rewards.

I don't want anyone to feel forced to do quests if they don't want to.

 
I don't want anyone to feel forced to do quests if they don't want to.


Yes, on my (admittedly short) playthrough of A20, I felt locked into:

1. Get quest from trader.

2. Loot POI treasure room.

3. Reset POI via the quest.

4. Loot POI treasure room again.

5. Return to trader for reward.

6. Goto 1.

It just seemed like the fastest way to loot up (and XP too).

 
tdevine said:
 Or i dunno, maybe your toxic spew is empty of any substance to the discussion of improving the game.
Let's not forget the energy you brought with you.  I have this knee-jerk tendency to return that kinda thing back to sender.  I mean so far its been formulaic that you have pointed fingers at everyone else, even going so far to do it again when responding to me.  Rest assured, if the whole world smells like dookie to you, its prolly time to check your shoes.

But do go on about how the ills of your experiences are totally everyone else's fault.

 
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Let's not forget the energy you brought with you.  I have this knee-jerk tendency to return that kinda thing back to sender.  I mean so far its been formulaic that you have pointed fingers at everyone else, even going so far to do it again when responding to me.  Rest assured, if the whole world smells like dookie to you, its prolly time to check your shoes.

But do go on about how the ills of your experiences are totally everyone else's fault.


Bring something to the discussion or don't say anything at all.  We don't need a keyboard warrior or a useless troll on the forum.  Quit personally attacking me while hiding behind your screen.  Also, some of my complaints are being addressed in Alpha 21, so I guess some of my complaints are legit huh?  It is good that you don't decide where this game goes, and your opinion of my complaints are also worth ZERO.

 
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Yes, on my (admittedly short) playthrough of A20, I felt locked into:

1. Get quest from trader.

2. Loot POI treasure room.

3. Reset POI via the quest.

4. Loot POI treasure room again.

5. Return to trader for reward.

6. Goto 1.

It just seemed like the fastest way to loot up (and XP too).
My feeling is that if you enjoy doing it that way, go for it.  But if you don't and you find that way of cheesing the system, then don't.  It didn't matter if it is "more efficient" or "faster xp/loot" or whatever other reason.  If it makes the game less enjoyable, simply don't do it.  No one ever forces someone to play only in the "most efficient" way possible.  At least, not unless you are in rather toxic guilds in multiplayer games like MMOs.  It is a game.  Have fun.  If it is more fun playing less efficiently, then go for it.

There are people who really do enjoy min/max and speed runs and other ways of playing that require such efficiency.  They like having that challenge.  But if that type of gameplay bores you, why do it?  Just how I look at things. 😁

 
My feeling is that if you enjoy doing it that way, go for it.  But if you don't and you find that way of cheesing the system, then don't.  It didn't matter if it is "more efficient" or "faster xp/loot" or whatever other reason.  If it makes the game less enjoyable, simply don't do it.  No one ever forces someone to play only in the "most efficient" way possible.  At least, not unless you are in rather toxic guilds in multiplayer games like MMOs.  It is a game.  Have fun.  If it is more fun playing less efficiently, then go for it.

There are people who really do enjoy min/max and speed runs and other ways of playing that require such efficiency.  They like having that challenge.  But if that type of gameplay bores you, why do it?  Just how I look at things. 😁


It's a fair statement to be sure, but then part of me just can't help doing things the most efficient way possible.

 
Also, some of my complaints are being addressed in Alpha 21, so I guess some of my complaints are legit huh?
Wait, so you know some things you don't like are being changed in A21, yet you come here and complain about them anyway now? Uh...

 
Wait, so you know some things you don't like are being changed in A21, yet you come here and complain about them anyway now? Uh...


And he was made aware of them only AFTER posting his complaints if I remember correctly.

So he did not find the non-obvious first page of the dev diary, big deal.

 
Wait, so you know some things you don't like are being changed in A21, yet you come here and complain about them anyway now? Uh...


  Actually, my complaint with these A21 specific changes were that, one, they took way too long, two, the current skill system should have NEVER been put into the game as it is horrible.

 
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That its taken too long? Few would disagree. That changes in the skill system are not what was expected? You'll find many to agree with you there as well. Bash the base game if you will, but try some modded versions (yeah, makes vanilla players cringe). You may just find a variant you can enjoy. Otherwise, well, sorry for your experience. You do have options.

 
meganoth said:
There are 5. One of each type (though minibike and motorbike could be called the same type). A tank would be overpowered. A truck would be useless as many players don't even use the additional inventory space of the 4x4 and prefer the motorbike for its better off-road handling. A boat may be in the future after water got an overhaul

What else would you propose that would really provide new capabilities? TFP does not like to put in lots of identical things into the game that only look different. It is a design principle. You may not like it, but then there's modding for that.


For me personally it's more about variety. I love bdubz vehicle mod for that. I don't have to build the same bicycle, minibike, motorcycle, 4x4, or gyro over and over. I can build a humvee, or a golfcart, or whatever.

Also kind of funny that the motorcycle is better at offroading than the 4x4 is... you'd think an offroad vehicle would be better and driving offroad.

 
Bring something to the discussion or don't say anything at all.  We don't need a keyboard warrior or a useless troll on the forum.  Quit personally attacking me while hiding behind your screen.  Also, some of my complaints are being addressed in Alpha 21, so I guess some of my complaints are legit huh?  It is good that you don't decide where this game goes, and your opinion of my complaints are also worth ZERO.


Ahh, now we see the arrogance and the entitlement.   You not only wanna just make wild inflammatory comments towards the devs and other forumgoers, you also want to demand control on how they respond to you?  Good luck with that!   And, in case it's totally slipped your mind, some of the folks more nicer than myself HAVE been trying to help you, and here you are responding pretty much to mostly me.   So.. all that Mad got you what, exactly?   How is that working out for you?

Here is the help you actually need:  A forum discussion is not a one way  thing, and no one owes you the sort of expectations you have demanded.  There are actual living people from all over world that frequent this forum that have a multitude of experiences both similar and not-similar to yours, with much more experience than you. 

However, if you want to be treated like a mature adult you should definitely try that route first before posting like you did.  I guarantee you will get not only much further with 7 Days to Die discussions, but life in general.  And lastly, speaking about the worth of my comments being zero, you sure do seem to respond to them quite a bit.  I'd go so far to ask you which is it really, but I am getting the notion that if this is how you treat people IRL, it wont surprise me in the least that you likely have similar difficulties in other spaces.

 
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That its taken too long? Few would disagree. That changes in the skill system are not what was expected? You'll find many to agree with you there as well. Bash the base game if you will, but try some modded versions (yeah, makes vanilla players cringe). You may just find a variant you can enjoy. Otherwise, well, sorry for your experience. You do have options.
Well, since the original post has been edited after I wrote this (and I don't recall mention of their modding...my mistake) - makes me look more like the doofus that I probably am.

However, if the OP has modded the game to their liking, perhaps that mod could be shared with the 7DTD community? Maybe its just a map, but sounds like it could be interesting to play. Either way, many hours must have been spent in tweaking....something I can not do.

His nephew does sound like quite the enterprising player though.  Lol. 👍

 
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