Guaranteed buzzkill

warmer

warmer

Hunter
Upgrading the last piece of my base and suddenly the entire platform I am on collapses.

Hadn't played in probably 5 months, and this week I had been having a blast only to have everything self destruct on me and I remembered... This is exactly why I took a break last time...

I know I can see the stability view by going into debug but WHY does this happen at all when you are upgrading the last piece of a platform to cobblestone from wood. This is what kills my love for the game over and over again.

Will this ever get fixed?
How do I solve this?

I feel like the stability should only get better with high grade materials, not self destruct on the final piece to upgrade.
 
warmer said:
I feel like the stability should only get better with high grade materials, not self destruct on the final piece to upgrade.
Click to expand...
It does; wood is lighter but can carry a lot less weight. Stone can carry more, steel even more.

So, this:
warmer said:
<collapse> when you are upgrading the last piece of a platform to cobblestone from wood.
Click to expand...
Should not really happen. Unless the wall your platform hangs off of is still wood? As in: you have a "basic square tower" of wood, and you upgrade the floor inside, from inside. This would leave a "row of wall" at the edges of your floor as wood. Because the floor blocks the view of those wall blocks. You would see them from the outside (unless you have 2-thick walls).

Collapses can happen randomly, but if you've managed to repeat the same type of collapse, it is probably not about bugs; but not understanding the Structural Integrity -system.
 
theFlu said:
It does; wood is lighter but can carry a lot less weight. Stone can carry more, steel even more.

So, this:

Should not really happen. Unless the wall your platform hangs off of is still wood? As in: you have a "basic square tower" of wood, and you upgrade the floor inside, from inside. This would leave a "row of wall" at the edges of your floor as wood. Because the floor blocks the view of those wall blocks. You would see them from the outside (unless you have 2-thick walls).

Collapses can happen randomly, but if you've managed to repeat the same type of collapse, it is probably not about bugs; but not understanding the Structural Integrity -system.
Click to expand...
Everything suspended between 2 columns of cobble stone that were 2 wide. The platform was a 3x2 off the side to hold my robotic sledge. I was upgrading the last piece of that 3x2 platform and the whole thing collapsed on me and everything between the two cobble stone columns. It certainly doesn't make sense.

What feels like is happening is the cobblestone weighs more than the wood and pushes the stability into the red and breaks it, but WHY is this possible at all? The stability should only go up when you upgrade unless they are using some weird weight calculation at the moment of upgrade before the block is calculated into the stability of that platform and that exceeds the platform if that block is missing?

That is what my gut tells me is happening. Like the check is taking place in the wrong order.

The last time this happened to me I broke a bar I had placed in the wrong spot on a wall and my entire floor collapsed under me. The bar had nothing to do with the supports.

This type of building bug is what kills the game for me. I've had houses collapse from a window frame being broken. What they need to do is give you a stability halo around the block you are upgrading when you right click or something, because I don't understand how this happens unless it's a bug.
 
warmer said:
Everything suspended between 2 columns of cobble stone that were 2 wide. The platform was a 3x2 off the side to hold my robotic sledge. I was upgrading the last piece of that 3x2 platform and the whole thing collapsed on me and everything between the two cobble stone columns. It certainly doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...
The description is way too vague to say anything about it .. "between 2 2-wide columns" is 4 support faces, that should carry the weight of 40 stone blocks. Or it can mean 12 carrying faces, for 120 blocks, if they go "through" your platform.
So, if your hanging load was 40-120 blocks, you will have a collapse.

Can't say much, but bugs also happen ... :P
 
warmer said:
Upgrading the last piece of my base and suddenly the entire platform I am on collapses.

Hadn't played in probably 5 months, and this week I had been having a blast only to have everything self destruct on me and I remembered... This is exactly why I took a break last time...

I know I can see the stability view by going into debug but WHY does this happen at all when you are upgrading the last piece of a platform to cobblestone from wood. This is what kills my love for the game over and over again.

Will this ever get fixed?
How do I solve this?

I feel like the stability should only get better with high grade materials, not self destruct on the final piece to upgrade.
Click to expand...
Can you backup a game state by keeping a copy of it somewhere on your computer and switching it out if need be? (Haven't investigated that possibility.) If so, it might be a good idea to do that occasionally until the game goes "gold"* and is as stable as it's going to get.

*I know there's a lot of confusion about whether it's a completed game and TFP is frankly responsible for a lot of that confusion, but it's still an unfinished game until 4.0, afic. Ergo, I'd be treating it like an unfinished game.
 
Recently I'm demolishing parts of POI's by just taking out lower parts of a wall and at times the collaps is kind like a Kindersurprise: You never know what you get. It might be the mix of wood/stone/concrete/steel/furniture but at times it feels kind of random where it starts.
A lesson I learned earlier is to make sure your force has a decen foundation, had a collaps when starting to melt materials in a temporary wooden base.
 
theFlu said:
The description is way too vague to say anything about it .. "between 2 2-wide columns" is 4 support faces, that should carry the weight of 40 stone blocks. Or it can mean 12 carrying faces, for 120 blocks, if they go "through" your platform.
So, if your hanging load was 40-120 blocks, you will have a collapse.

Can't say much, but bugs also happen ... :P
Click to expand...
I hear ya. This is the basic setup.

It just shouldn't have happened. It's a bug I have run into several times upgrading. I would bet if I built the same thing from straight cobble blocks vs. upgrading (which I do to get the XP) it would collapse because the upgrade stability check wouldn't break it.

1772330796491.png
 
Yeh, ok, that should not collapse, mathematically.
Assuming:
Columns E and P are solid to bedrock.
The blueprint is to scale, your bridge has 10 hanging blocks, plus the six on the side.

It MIGHT collapse if X6 or W6 is the last thing you upgrade, as those block need to confer stability through but wouldn't be able to.
 
Dead Smarty said:
So weakest link is leading?
Many YT guides only go 2 or 3 blocks deep wich most of the time means stone at best or when on a road many don't even care to dig.
Click to expand...
You can build on dirt or sand, and as long as there aren't any missing blocks somewhere below you (not sure if this occurs anymore or not) the structural stability isn't effected.

Vertical stability just checks for a connection to bedrock, there's no crush weight or anything like that anymore, as far as I can tell.
 
Dead Smarty said:
Many YT guides only go 2 or 3 blocks deep wich most of the time means stone at best or when on a road many don't even care to dig.
Click to expand...
Hmm; the depth of what you build doesn't matter. Outside of POIs (with basements and such) every bit of terrain is "solid to bedrock" for SI purposes. Making your own steel pillar down to bedrock does Not change what the topmost block of that pillar can carry to a side.

Of course, you may want to demo-proof your bases by making strong support blocks in areas where you might have a few blow up. Terrain won't survive explosions, steel blocks will. But that's the only reason to extend them under ground. Or maybe if you suspect someone has been mining in the area, to check and solidify the bedrock connection.
 
This was sitting on the dirt. The stability was never red when placing/building. There has to be some calculation that is not being revealed when upgrading, maybe it's because I had things on the platform (Robotic sledge) not sure, but it's the one bug that I have run into time and time again. This was 17hrs into this playthrough when it happened. Probably my 3rd base I had built, so it doesn't happen all the time, but when it's 18:00 on horde night and you sprain you leg and destroy your platform, it's a rage quit inducing scenario lol
 
Just something to check ... turn on god mode and go down under the entire area and see if there are any holes down there. Maybe from mining nearby. Maybe a POI that extended partly into your base area and has an underground tunnel. Any hole below your supports will make those supports basically useless.

Beyond that, if you can build it up again in wood just the way you had it and do one or more screenshots so we can have a better view, it might help to see the cause. If you do that and don't mind taking the time, using paint to alternate colors every block so we can easily count blocks would be helpful (it's not always easy to count blocks when it's all the same texture). Be sure any screenshots let us see how it's connected to the ground as well.

It could be a bug. Stability bugs do happen. But I've built a LOT of bridge-like areas and always upgrade from building blocks and have never had a collapse that wasn't clearly my own fault. For example, I had a multi-level base and the top floor kept collapsing even though I had supports. I realized one of my supports wasn't lined up perfectly above the support below it, so it wasn't doing much and was causing the collapse. Placing it in the right location solved it.
 
Riamus said:
It could be a bug. Stability bugs do happen. But I've built a LOT of bridge-like areas and always upgrade from building blocks and have never had a collapse that wasn't clearly my own fault. For example, I had a multi-level base and the top floor kept collapsing even though I had supports. I realized one of my supports wasn't lined up perfectly above the support below it, so it wasn't doing much and was causing the collapse. Placing it in the right location solved it.
Click to expand...
But why is it stable UNTIL I upgrade it. That is the entire issue. It's FINE until I upgrade it. That shouldn't be possible right? I am not adding anything. I was upgrading from Wood to Cobblestone. The stability shouldn't be able to change in that moment unless there is something being added vs changing material type.
 
warmer said:
That shouldn't be possible right? I am not adding anything.
Click to expand...
You are adding weight; stone is heavier than wood. So, at the very least, the order in which you upgrade matters.

In the excel-PRO-design-style:
1772385438549.png
W = Wood, S = Stone

I'm not saying you've made mistakes here, necessarily; the SI system does do hiccups on occasion. But if you have, it's a whole lot easier to fix ;)
 
warmer said:
But why is it stable UNTIL I upgrade it. That is the entire issue. It's FINE until I upgrade it. That shouldn't be possible right? I am not adding anything. I was upgrading from Wood to Cobblestone. The stability shouldn't be able to change in that moment unless there is something being added vs changing material type.
Click to expand...
theFlu gave an example of one instance where it would fail. It is important to upgrade from the support(s) outward and not from the hanging areas inward. It's also important to make sure your supports are upgraded before anything hanging off them. You don't have to do the entire support, but just the blocks that have something hanging off of them. That's what theFlu's example shows.
 
theFlu said:
You are adding weight; stone is heavier than wood. So, at the very least, the order in which you upgrade matters.

In the excel-PRO-design-style:
View attachment 38604
W = Wood, S = Stone

I'm not saying you've made mistakes here, necessarily; the SI system does do hiccups on occasion. But if you have, it's a whole lot easier to fix ;)
Click to expand...
Everything was cobble except the robotic sledge platform.

I built the walkway first and then upgraded that to all cobble, and then built the wooden platform for the sledge after. If going from wood to cobble was a weight change that caused it, I have to wonder why TFP haven't given us a halo to indicate stability when we right click to upgrade.

This is a huge oversight in UI. If it shows at build and a material upgrade can change the weight/stability then WE NEED to see we are about to destroy something. That's a UI fail IMO
 
It should not collapse if everything else was also cobblestone. Screenshots of what you are doing would help, like I mentioned. And check for holes underground as well. Try building the same thing somewhere else, like on a road and see if you see the same problem. See if you can reproduce it every time if placed in different locations or when placed at the same location. More details would be needed to try and find the cause. As I said, I have never had a collapse in any recent versions that wasn't my own fault and I upgrade from building blocks all the time. So something is different, but there isn't enough information in what you've shown to indicate what is different. If you don't want to waste resources, grab some from the creative menu either in your current game or in a new game to build with when trying to reproduce it.
 
warmer said:
The stability was never red when placing/building.
Click to expand...
Don't trust that display/calculation. While I don't know that it ever shows something is stable when it isn't, it regular shows things are unstable when they aren't. It often shows the "will collapse" color when placing blocks on the ground, for example.
 
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